What will the Bhutto assassination mean for the future stability of Metafilter? December 27, 2007 3:13 PM Subscribe

Yeah, assassinations are hard to be unemotional about, but can we start acting reasonable?

It's an emotional subject, yeah, but the thread is quickly devolving into a flame-war between la ng uage h at and, uh, e v e ryone. Seems like maybe there could be a civilizing intervention from the mods? Or deleting a few of "Fuck off" comments?

posted by Weebot to Etiquette/Policy at 3:13 PM (259 comments total)

"Fuck off and die" is definitely stepping over what's already been a damn shaky line in that thread today. It'd be great if people could cool it some.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

This is definitely not the old LH's finest hour. I think maybe he ought to give that thread a timeout.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:19 PM on December 27, 2007

I sure hope Languagehat got a mirror for Christmas. He needs to take a good long look.
posted by stinkycheese at 3:21 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Jesus, ikkyu2. Here I came back from my MefiMail box thinking we'd gotten our little misunderstanding straightened out, and I find you crapping on me again. Why don't you give it a timeout, how about that?

And as for "languagehat vs everybody," I note that the offending comment has 26 favorites and counting. Sounds like not everyone thinks I'm an inhuman monster.
posted by languagehat at 3:22 PM on December 27, 2007

Ah, but this gives my old pal stinkycheese another chance to take a whack at me, so it's all good.
posted by languagehat at 3:23 PM on December 27, 2007

Why don't you deal with the substance of the call-out instead of trying to get people off on a tangent?
posted by stinkycheese at 3:25 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

I note that the offending comment has 26 favorites and counting.

all that means is that it's never hard to find an idiot for each letter of the alphabet
posted by pyramid termite at 3:26 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

The callout isn't about me, it's about the thread. What are you doing here? You're not even in that thread.
posted by languagehat at 3:26 PM on December 27, 2007

What are you doing here? You're not even in that thread.

*rolls eyes*
posted by stinkycheese at 3:28 PM on December 27, 2007

everybody needs a hug.
posted by miss lynnster at 3:30 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

Simmer down, man. No one's attacking you, least of all me. You are among friends here.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:30 PM on December 27, 2007

I certainly don't think you are an inhuman monster lh, but the thread did seem to devolve pretty quickly. I'm guessing it's just because emotions are high in some people and they don't want even the slightest of dismissiveness in regard to their feelings.

I think everyone involved just needs to take a deep breath, feel bad, or mournful, or not, and just step away from statements like 'fuck off and die'.

(Not sure who said that, but I can't think of many circumstances that would be appropriate on the blue)

Excepting, of course, when I say it. It's always appropriate when it comes from me.
posted by quin at 3:31 PM on December 27, 2007

What are you doing here?

watching you flail around instead of apologizing for being a jerk - and yes, you were one
posted by pyramid termite at 3:31 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

Yeah, it's pretty ugly in there. Though I really understand where LH is coming from about the culturally manufactured sadness, I felt the same way to people's response to 9/11 in Arizona when I lived there, especially in the weeks and months afterward. They acted as if it had been literally the worst day of their lives, and I found that obscene considering that it really WAS the worst day of so many other people's lives.

People have to get their OH NOES out somewhere I guess. Once I've had my fill, it's awful nice to just step away from the thread (AND be able to close it in my Recent Activity!) and try to take comfort in the small parts of the real world that are actually mine.
posted by hermitosis at 3:31 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

I didn't agree with LH's original comment — but this thread would really do well to be closed by the mods, like, say, now, so that the folks involved can cool down, and the inevitable pileon patrol can go somewhere else.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:32 PM on December 27, 2007

Oh wait, everyone's fighting. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt!
posted by hermitosis at 3:33 PM on December 27, 2007

I agree with Blazecock.

*hugs everyone*
posted by languagehat at 3:33 PM on December 27, 2007

*rocks out with cock out*
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:34 PM on December 27, 2007

Did you guys hear that new song on the radio by Blazecock and the Inevitable Pileon Patrol?
posted by hermitosis at 3:34 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Did you guys hear that new song on the radio by Blazecock and the Inevitable Pileon Patrol?

Are they Mods or Rockers?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2007

languagehat: didn't mean to single you out in particular for the bad behavior, I was just trying to outline the contours of the fight. Since most of the offending comments are in response to you, it just got characterized like that.

There were some other comments that weren't related to you that I'd find questionable. (Pollomacho and XQUZYPHYR are fighting about Afghanistan not being an Arab state somewhere in there), but it's just too tiring trying to catalog all the squabbles in that thread.
posted by Weebot at 3:37 PM on December 27, 2007

What will the Bhutto assassination metatalk thread mean for the future stability of the entire universe? [hard to believe this has already devolved 27 minutes in].
posted by moonbird at 3:39 PM on December 27, 2007

oh wait, there's hugs. nevermind.
posted by moonbird at 3:41 PM on December 27, 2007

If these threads are excised, where will people post their dots of somewhat sadness?
posted by smackfu at 3:46 PM on December 27, 2007

Peace on earth and goodwill, eh?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:49 PM on December 27, 2007

Did you guys hear that new song on the radio by Blazecock and the Inevitable Pileon Patrol?

Are they Mods or Rockers?

They're Mockers.
posted by NoMich at 3:52 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

FUCK AND DIE OFF.

oh wait, what? Benazir Bhutto?...

shit.
posted by cog_nate at 3:54 PM on December 27, 2007

Who else wants to dance?
posted by Kattullus at 3:54 PM on December 27, 2007

Weebot: No worries, I understood where you were coming from. Just making my own point.

I hope nobody misses nickyskye's fantastic roundup of related links.
posted by languagehat at 3:55 PM on December 27, 2007

Thread as pruned is fine. Some people said things that got other people all het up, some other people said some things with even more heat, a nice juicy argument was had between people who really wouldn't disagree if text weren't such a clumsy medium. Business as usual at Metafilter, in other words, which may be regrettable, but is rarely boring.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:59 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: Fuck off and die.
posted by sneakin at 4:06 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

OKAY KIDS, INTERNET IS OVER. THERE'S BEEN TOO MUCH YELLING.

(Alternative response: languagehat is articulating a viewpoint. You may not agree with him. This should not affect your quality of life.)
posted by blacklite at 4:08 PM on December 27, 2007

I favorite comments I don't like, because I have never been sure what the word "favorite" means and am too lazy to look it up.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:10 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

I'm with languagehat on this one. Cantankerous fool that he is, this is another example of a thread where a comment is used to "prove" how a secondary poster is more well meaning and nicer than the brutish and unthinking offender.

languagehat's initial comment wasn't particularly inflammatory. He stated that Bhutto was just another corrupt politician, and he didn't know why anyone should be saddened by her death. (The implication being - why anyone on metafilter should be saddened). Languagehat (not the statement he made) was immediately and personally attacked by people howling that they were more moral than languagehat and he's evil and doesn't care enough about people. Unlike them, and all good normal upstanding folk, and etc, etc.

It's a pretty nasty way to enforce a collective morality and it's hypocritical at that. I'm sure that the uber-liberal idiots that decided to pile onto languagehat have a section on bullying in their Lovely Rainbow List Of Rules.

Thing is, that even with your crazy rules for putting dots on every sad thread and caring for the lovely animals and your tendency to unthinking environmental facism, I'm pretty certain that languagehat is several orders of magnitude nicer and more moral than the lot of you put together.

Fucking whining liberatards.
posted by seanyboy at 4:20 PM on December 27, 2007 [12 favorites]

b.t.w. I'm well aware that languagehat can stand up for himself here.
And dude - No, I've not forgiven you for calling me names.
posted by seanyboy at 4:23 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

It's a real shame that lh's last comment in the thread was stricken from the record as his raging hypocrisy has rarely been so obvious.

On preview: liberatards hee hee.
posted by stinkycheese at 4:25 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm still stuck on "start" acting reasonable.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 4:26 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

If languagehat is the center of a argument I'd be willing to bet it's a argument worth having. On the other hand my mom always said if you've got nothing nice to say don't say anything.

why am I sure I'll be sorry I brought my poor mother into this.
posted by nola at 4:35 PM on December 27, 2007

I'm not in the thread and I don't really give a damn, but Weebot that is a huge steaming pile of bullshit. You clearly called out LH. Man up and stand by it or apologize, but don't be a weasel.
posted by The Bellman at 4:39 PM on December 27, 2007

Jeez. A languagehat flameout. Who'da thunk?
posted by Neiltupper at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2007

Well, I like LH but I felt his (and others') comments were inappropriate and out of line.

Just because something is true doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be said at an inappropriate time. Especially if the person saying it has reason to believe the statement would cause a crapstorm.

And so what if Bhutto was or was not corrupt? She didn't deserve to die that way, and her supporters did not deserve to lose her that way.
posted by konolia at 4:40 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

I'm with Seanyboy—I agreed with LH's initial comment, but stayed the hell out of that thread since it's a boiling pisspot of idiocy and pieties.
posted by klangklangston at 4:43 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

. . .Weebot that is a huge steaming pile of bullshit. You clearly called out LH. Man up and stand by it or apologize, but don't be a weasel.
posted by The Bellman

Talk about shooting the messenger.

I don't think thats called for The Bellman, that thread was getting out of hand and bring it in here makes sense.
posted by nola at 4:44 PM on December 27, 2007

Bringing it here just means it will continue.
posted by Cyrano at 4:48 PM on December 27, 2007

Better here than on the blue.
posted by nola at 4:49 PM on December 27, 2007

Especially if the person saying it has reason to believe the statement would cause a crapstorm.

I honestly did not think that, and frankly... how can I put this?... that's an odd argument coming from you.
posted by languagehat at 4:53 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

I don't know who it is, (JINX) but somebody owes me a fuckin' COKE! Ha, JK.
posted by snsranch at 5:17 PM on December 27, 2007

When your community runs off its davys its reklaws its quonsars its ethereals its president steve elvises, it needs a new scapegoat to turn on.

WHO WILL BE NEXT?
posted by bukvich at 5:17 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Anybody else think the 'Don't say it since it will cause a shitstorm' argument doesn't particularly make sense most of the time it's used?
posted by shakespeherian at 5:20 PM on December 27, 2007

Oy, konolia. No, she didn't deserve to die that way, but unless I missed it (and I didn't follow the thread after a while because, well, it just wasn't such a good time) languagehat wasn't exactly proclaiming sic semper tyrranis! about the assassination. It was just "meh," you know, and I agree: meh.

Just because something is true doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be said at an inappropriate time.

I don't believe that there is an inappropriate time for the truth on MetaFilter. Certainly not as it pertains to international politics. The number of mefites who are members of the Pakistani People's Party has got to be vanishingly small, and I'm sorry for their loss. If they number beyond a single digit, however, I'll be shocked, and the other N-thousand of us deserve the right to be about the business of discussing the reality of the situation sans sugarcoating. It's a serious change to the political equation in the region, and will have repercussions that are worth discussing. Fortunately for all of us, the crops in the field will continue to grow and flourish, because the sun did not shine exclusively from Benazir Bhutto's ass.
posted by mumkin at 5:21 PM on December 27, 2007 [6 favorites]

Look, if we called out every thread full of hysterical liberals savaging someone for actually taking a moment and dispassionately thinking about a situation before posting, we'd have time for little else.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:29 PM on December 27, 2007 [4 favorites]

WHO WILL BE NEXT?

Well, I don't reckon it'll be languagehat. He's far too intelligent, reasonable and gentlemanly (that's right, gentlemanly, I ain't afraid to say it), and if he gets run outta MeFitown, then I'm moving to Cleveland or something.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2007

The Bellman: I stand by my weasel words.

Seriously, I'm not absolving languagehat. I just wanted to make clear that he wasn't the only one making noxious statements.

And you know what, he's here, and if he feels slighted he can take care of himself. I can't really see why someone who admits that he doesn't give a damn would care to get involved.
posted by Weebot at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2007

Anybody else think the 'Don't say it since it will cause a shitstorm' argument doesn't particularly make sense most of the time it's used?

Especially since it frequently just means "Don't say it, since if you do, we're going to freak the fuck out like a toddlers with hornets in our diapers."

Uh, yeah, how about you just don't freak out, maybe? Then there would be no crapstorm, life would go on as normal, and everyone would be happy.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:32 PM on December 27, 2007 [4 favorites]

*drops pants, sets hair on fire, runs in small circles, hooting*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:34 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

NOW LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE, YOU BASTARDS!

*throws bucket of cold water on stavros, glares at crowd*
posted by languagehat at 5:36 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Also it sort of demands that you predict people's irrationality, which seems difficult.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:37 PM on December 27, 2007

Just because something is true doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be said at an inappropriate time.

This is totally subjective, and frankly ridiculous. MetaFilter has higher standards than this.

seanyboy, you had me till you made it a "liberal" issue. I was poised to click the plus because you articulately very well that some folks around here can tend toward mob mentality when there's a more-moral-than-thou contest on the table... if I were going to be super-charitable about it, I'd say that it's likely a case of what quin said ("I'm guessing it's just because emotions are high in some people and they don't want even the slightest of dismissiveness in regard to their feelings").

But, really, it has zero to do with one's political position. I'm one of MeFi's bloodier bleeding-hearts, so to speak, and I'm with languagehat on this (in theory if not execution; I didn't see the thread pre-cleanup, so I can't really address the particulars).

Translation: liberals don't have the lock on fucktard behavior, and not all liberals agree with allegedly "liberal" pileons. We've got enough partisan politics around here these days, stop bootstrapping it where it's not needed.
posted by pineapple at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2007 [6 favorites]

And when did everyone in that thread suddenly become a liberal?
posted by Weebot at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2007

I am having a hard time really caring one way or the other, but that's mostly because Benazir Bhutto was a child of EXTREME privilege and, like all good Americans, I dislike nepotism and those that benefit from it disproportionate to their actual talents.

Which is not to say that she wasn't like a totally awesome figurehead, man.
posted by dhammond at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2007

Metafilter: Fucking whining liberatards.

Now, that's a classic.
posted by chlorus at 5:39 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hey, wait a minute, what's with the cold water? I was enjoying that magnificent display by stavros!

(Who knew he was into Performance Art? But, granted, he is a little late. That kind of thing was big in the East Village in 1985, stav. Maybe it's best that you got the cold water treatment, since you were kinda dating yourself and all...)
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:42 PM on December 27, 2007

I didn't want to add to the derail in the thread, but it's beyond my ability to comprehend how anyone can tell anyone else how to feel about anything.

I have never met Bhutto. I don't even pretend to know much about her, or the history of Pakistan, other than what I have gleaned on the accurate-or-not major news outlets.

But when I read this morning that she was killed, I was sad. I'm not a hypocrite or a liar or making things up. I was sad. I am still sad. No one else has to be if they don't want to.

I don't know LH personally either, but if he goes before me, I bet I'll be sad about that too. And don't any of y'all byotches tell me I shouldn't be.
posted by The Deej at 5:46 PM on December 27, 2007 [10 favorites]

This callout and its accompanying FPP are perfect examples of politics in Pakistan.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:48 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Thing is, that even with your crazy rules for putting dots on every sad thread and caring for the lovely animals and your tendency to unthinking environmental facism, I'm pretty certain that languagehat is several orders of magnitude nicer and more moral than the lot of you put together.

Fucking whining liberatards.

Funny, this sounds about as reasonable and appropriate a response as those from the chorus of "fucking whining liberatards." Also, I had no idea the use of a period was a matter of political identity. Thanks for clearing that up.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 5:48 PM on December 27, 2007

But, really, it has zero to do with one's political position. I'm one of MeFi's bloodier bleeding-hearts, so to speak, and I'm with languagehat on this (in theory if not execution; I didn't see the thread pre-cleanup, so I can't really address the particulars).

I'd say amen, except that I'm a godless secular humanist, to boot.
posted by scody at 5:48 PM on December 27, 2007

All of my neighbors are all up in arms
About something they saw on TV.
Seems some politician got busted for something
That won't make any difference to me.
Now, I'm sure it's all true and I'm tired of this too
But I can't pray for someone to fall
I let all them people do what people do
I'm just happy to be here at all

I'm happy to be here to vote randomly
On who ought to take the next dive
I'm eager to see what the downfall will be
And all the hilarity on Saturday Night Live
You know, mostly it's all scandal t.v. these days
That's where the real money must fall
Down from the smog of some Hollywood haze
I'm just happy to be here at all

I'm happy to be here
Happy to be Ha ppy

I'm happy to be here to see how it goes
If everything blows into space
I've been walking my tennis shoes right through my toes
Trying to keep up with the rest of the race.
Mostly I stare out my window these days
Watching my dog chase her ball
I'll do my job here whatever it pays
I'm just happy to be here at all.
posted by jonmc at 5:50 PM on December 27, 2007 [6 favorites]

This is going in so many directions I'm confused as to which howling mob to join. I think I'll wait until early casualty counts are in before joining what appears to be a winning side.
posted by Abiezer at 5:55 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Fucking whining liberatards. ... hysterical liberals

I wasn't around MeFi during the last big US Political Season... so, is that what's behind this? Or is it some sort of weird Fox News cross-over?

The whole whining, emotional, incapable-of-cold-hard-reason, finger-wagging liberal vs. supremely-rational, balls-to-the-wall, no-rules conservative/libertarian memewar is eyerollingly tiresome. Except maybe when Colbert does it, but then it's obviously satire and usually funny.

If we're going to inject an unnecessary aspect into discussions, we might as well make it hair colour. 'Cause those fucking redheads annoy me, especially the flaming-red ones. With their frequent sunburns and freckles and delusions of being real human beings. Pfft. Jerks.
posted by CKmtl at 5:59 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Only obvious satire can be funny.
posted by matthewr at 6:03 PM on December 27, 2007

Extraordinarily corrupt faux-democratic figurehead finally assassinated, BEANS OVERTHOUGHT.
posted by blasdelf at 6:04 PM on December 27, 2007

The whole whining, emotional, incapable-of-cold-hard-reason, finger-wagging liberal vs. supremely-rational, balls-to-the-wall, no-rules conservative/libertarian memewar is eyerollingly tiresome.

It is eyerollingly tiresome, and that's why I let out a big sigh every time, for example, some whining, emotional liberal screams that someone is an inhuman monster for broaching the question of paying for some of the left's pie-in-the-sky social programs. Metafilter has a large, vocal contingent of completely irrational liberals, and their predictable savaging of anyone who threatens their ideology gets old.

I'm sure if Metafilter had a similar group of conservatives, that would get old too, but it doesn't.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 6:08 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

CKmtl, "Tex": I generally find humorless ideologues of any stripe eyerolling tiresome, and I doubt I'm alone.

*rolls eyes, knocks down pins*
posted by jonmc at 6:11 PM on December 27, 2007

(and I'd add, that I do agree with languagehat with one caveat: Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Beyond that, it's politics as usual for most of us.)
posted by jonmc at 6:13 PM on December 27, 2007

Okay, let me be plain.

I detest in the extreme being told I shouldn't feel sad about someone's death for whatever various and sundry reason the teller deems fitting.

I think it is destestable for LH or anyone else to go in that thread and crap in it by basically doing what I just described.

It is appropriate to discuss the politics, the effect on that country, the effect on the world. who and who isn't involved in the assassination, whatever. Fine, fine and fine.

But I will feel sad for anyone getting blown up just for participating in a political process. I will feel sad for the death of a woman whose supporters saw her as a hope for the future. I will feel sad for the person I saw interviewed so very very many years ago and still remembered, with interest.

If any of you don't like it, that is your privilege but I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT.
posted by konolia at 6:14 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

He stated that Bhutto was just another corrupt politician, and he didn't know why anyone should be saddened by her death.

i'm sure someone said the same thing about archduke franz ferdinand

i wish i was convinced this was 100% hyperbole
posted by pyramid termite at 6:15 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

"I'm sure if Metafilter had a similar group of conservatives, that would get old too, but it doesn't."

Oh, Tex, you pretty much prove that there doesn't have to be a group of conservatives for people to get tired of hearing their bullshit—you do just fine on your own!
posted by klangklangston at 6:19 PM on December 27, 2007 [8 favorites]

I'm about sick of reading things like , some whining, emotional liberal as I am of reading the cover of a book titled American Fascists.

An attempt to marginalize a person you disagree with by reducing them to a lable is a weak position for anyone to play from.
posted by nola at 6:20 PM on December 27, 2007

oh, tex, wasn't your name steve elvis doctor president something or other in a previous life?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:20 PM on December 27, 2007

If any of you don't like it, that is your privilege but I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT.

There are a couple of acceptable solutions when people are saying things on the internet that you do not want to hear.

None of those solutions is "You all have to STOP saying things I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR."

Call languagehat detestable. Call his statements crap. Call everyone a liberatard. Or put your own hands over your own ears in real life and scream at the computer "la la la la I am not listening to you." Or -- this is a wacky one, I know -- click the little X and stop reading.

But don't tell people that they owe you the "decency" of shutting up because YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT. That's childish and ridiculous. No one owes you a single thing around here, least of all keeping their opinions to themselves so your delicate sensibilities won't be offended.
posted by pineapple at 6:21 PM on December 27, 2007 [31 favorites]

People invest too much in internet discussions, film at 11.
posted by knave at 6:30 PM on December 27, 2007

Now, that's a classic.

No, no it really isn't.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:33 PM on December 27, 2007

Fucking "."ist whiners.

Look, sometimes whern someones dead we're not going to be universaly positive about them. That's actually a better thing than a thread full of dots.
posted by Artw at 6:36 PM on December 27, 2007

You know that Family Guy episode "Death is a Bitch"? Where everyone becomes immortal and the entire city devolves into a giant gun battle, everyone just randomly firing off shots at each other? Metafilter is like that sometimes.
posted by puke & cry at 6:42 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

Oh, Tex, you pretty much prove that there doesn't have to be a group of conservatives for people to get tired of hearing their bullshit—you do just fine on your own!

Exactly my point. Even a single voice that isn't singing that familiar knee-jerk liberal tune is absolutely intolerable to a lot of people around here.

oh, tex, wasn't your name steve elvis doctor president something or other in a previous life?

You mean to ask if I am the Mefite who has a username something like that? Nope.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 6:46 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh, Tex, you pretty much prove that there doesn't have to be a group of conservatives for people to get tired of hearing their bullshit—you do just fine on your own!
posted by klangklangston

Yep.

But then again, I'm an irrational liberal libertarian or something.
posted by snsranch at 6:49 PM on December 27, 2007

I am the most caring person on metafilter, please date me.
posted by sgt.serenity at 6:58 PM on December 27, 2007

Tex do you listen to Rush Limbaugh all day or something? Can't you come up with another adjective besides "liberal" to paint people with? Is it possible for you to make a point without revealing your deeply held pregidouses?
posted by nola at 6:58 PM on December 27, 2007

Prejudice*
posted by nola at 7:01 PM on December 27, 2007

I've never listened to Rush Limbaugh, and I vote Democrat. I probably could come up with an adjective besides "liberal," but "liberal" works great.

For example, the other day I had to deal with some retard ranting about the private equity group "Haliburton." That's a clear case of acute liberalness. What else am I going to call it?
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 7:02 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Even a single voice that isn't singing that familiar knee-jerk liberal tune is absolutely intolerable to a lot of people around here.

Oh, Christ.

I've been watching ya, Tex -- convinced to date that you're an ElectionFilter-sockpuppet, one that so far has seemed prone to thoughtful if provocative contributions and might even end up on November 5 as having been an overall rational voice when shrill became the default.

But, are you really going to be this guy? The one who has to remind everyone what side he's on in every single thread... even where it's patently not relevant? The one who has to constantly carry the cross of Poor Underrepresented Minority Opinion, even if it undermines your position?

Is it too late for me to beg you to reconsider?
posted by pineapple at 7:02 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh, that Tex and his sleight of hand.
posted by fish tick at 7:03 PM on December 27, 2007

So, wait, languagehat is being screamed at for not being, what "saddened enough" by Bhutto''s assassination?

I understand feeling bereaved or saddened by Bhutto's assassination, either because it's a violent loss of life or because of what it means for regional and world stability. But I really don't understand how you can get too upset that languagehat has a different reaction, based on his different opinion of what Bhutto had to offer.

Yeah, the assassination is a tragedy (and so is the death of every kid being murdered in Darfur or Iraq), but it's not anyone's opportunity to display the piety of his fulsome tears, and corresponding derision for anyone not crying as furiously as he is. (I seem to remember this same bullshit being directed against HM Queen Elizabeth after the Diana's death, and it was silly then too.)

For whatever reasons, languagehat ain't real moved by what he sees as the death of a mere politician. That may be right or wrong, but it is surely wrong for anyone to appoint himself as arbiter of the correct expression and extent of others' mourning or lack thereof.
posted by orthogonality at 7:04 PM on December 27, 2007

"Tex": ... some whining, emotional liberal screams that someone is an inhuman monster for broaching the question of paying for some of the left's pie-in-the-sky social programs.

That's politics. This was an obit thread, not one about "pie-in-the-sky" social programs. The whining and emotion was about whether or not one should - from their POV - crap in a thread about a recently dead person, not about the theoretical infeasibility of medicare or hydrogen filling stations on every block. Political left or right has pretty much nothing to do with it. Case in point:

If any of you don't like it, that is your privilege but I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT.
posted by konolia at 6:14 PM PST on December 27

I'm not privy to her voter registration card, but I'd wager she's not a librul.

jonmc: I generally find humorless ideologues of any stripe eyerolling tiresome, and I doubt I'm alone.

Sure. I don't like seeing people jump down someone's throat over a simple matter of a difference of opinions either. But in this case the specific political stripes of the ideologuery is about as important as hair colour, or whether or not the person has webbed toes, or which of their legs is longer than the other. Framing it as a Liberal Thing strikes the same sort of off note as holding Random American Tourist Abroad wholly and personally responsible for the actions of past or present White House administrations.
posted by CKmtl at 7:04 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

For example, the other day I had to deal with some retard ranting about the private equity group "Haliburton." That's a clear case of acute liberalness. What else am I going to call it?

I can't even begin to explain how lost I am after that last comment so I think I'll just leave it. Welcome to MetaFilter.
posted by nola at 7:06 PM on December 27, 2007

For example, the other day I had to deal with some retard ranting about the private equity group "Haliburton." That's a clear case of acute liberalness. What else am I going to call it?

What it is: ignorance.

I don't care if you're a card-carrying member of the Socialist Party -- if you throw your lot in with the Fox-News-style reactionary crowd here, that's who you become. Doesn't matter what your DINO manual tells you to say in a public space.

Kneejerk comes in lots of flavors.
posted by pineapple at 7:08 PM on December 27, 2007

I can't be the only one who sees Tex's comments as obvious, and pretty piss-poor, trolling.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:09 PM on December 27, 2007 [5 favorites]

I'm favortiting every one.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:09 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

You know where my sister is? She's skiing, in Canada.
Which is fine, see, but she got a new cat. She's never had a cat before and is a little unfamiliar with the responsibilities that come with cat ownership. So she left the cat with me, so she could go skiing with her boyfriend in Canada.

Approximately eight seconds after her car pulled out of the driveway, the cat went into heat.

Now the damned thing is howling constantly and crawling all over me. It's jumping on the computer and digging its claws (all fucking 70 of them, or whatever - she decided not to get it declawed) into my legs.

If I don't kill this cat, it will be because I have drunk too much of this here wine to wield a hammer. Or a staple gun.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:09 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

There. That'll teach you.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:10 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

No no no you don't kill a cat with a hammer or a staple gun. Cats can only be killed by a sack and large body of water like a lake or a creek.
posted by nola at 7:12 PM on December 27, 2007

Just because something is true doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be said at an inappropriate time.

Konolia, correct me if I'm wrong - but wasn't the person you are supposed to strive to be like above all others; a huge fan of speaking truth at inappropriate times? Wasn't this essentially the reason those targetted by said truths had him executed?

Maybe what languagehat said wasn't particularly Christlike, but the specific aspect you chose to criticize (the timing) strangely enough was.

There is never an 'inappropriate' time for the truth. That attitude is exactly what creates societies that are simultaneously harmonious, corrupt, and exploitative.

If any of you don't like it, that is your privilege but I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT.

Oddly enough, I - and I suspect many others - don't want to hear about your not wanting to hear about it, but I do anyway because I choose to participate in a forum where viewpoints radically different from my own are freely given voice.

If you are unable to summon the personal maturity to participate in such a forum, then the wisest choice would be to seek out one that will not assail you with differing viewpoints.

I sincerely wish you all the best in your decision between these alternatives, assuming that you make one.
posted by Ryvar at 7:14 PM on December 27, 2007 [6 favorites]

Ryvar, do let me know the next time you go to someone's funeral then get up and let people know what kind of jerk they were in life, because I'd like to sit in the back row and watch hilarity ensue.
posted by konolia at 7:20 PM on December 27, 2007

I can't be the only one who sees Tex's comments as obvious, and pretty piss-poor, trolling.

You have to go to flamewar with the troll you have, not the troll you want.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 7:23 PM on December 27, 2007 [13 favorites]

And then you go and say something that makes me fall in love with you all over again.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:25 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

konolia writes "Ryvar, do let me know the next time you go to someone's funeral then get up and let people know what kind of jerk they were in life, because I'd like to sit in the back row and watch hilarity ensue."

What gave you the impression that a newsfilter discussion thread on a website is anything like a funeral?
posted by orthogonality at 7:28 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

There is never an 'inappropriate' time for the truth.

Funny considering who you're talking to.
posted by nola at 7:28 PM on December 27, 2007

Actually, konolia, I would love nothing more than for someone at my own funeral to say: "There goes a really nice guy and a colossal dick."

[entendre intentional]
posted by Ryvar at 7:28 PM on December 27, 2007 [3 favorites]

There is never an 'inappropriate' time for the truth.

and, I'm told, there's always room for Jell-O and nobody dosen't like Sara Lee.
posted by jonmc at 7:31 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

orthogonality, you have it arse about (you're not the only one). Go read the thread and comments.

So, wait, languagehat is being screamed at for not being, what "saddened enough" by Bhutto''s assassination?

NO! That is not it at all.

I understand feeling bereaved or saddened by Bhutto's assassination

Well LH said he couldn't understand why anybody other than Bhutto's family could be saddened. That was what set off the chain of rhetorical interplay.
posted by peacay at 7:37 PM on December 27, 2007

And then you go and say something that makes me fall in love with you all over again.

I KNOW, RIGHT????? ARGH.
posted by pineapple at 7:47 PM on December 27, 2007

there are an increasingly large number of people who are dolts with no sense of anything in this life they are cretin level idiots who think that everything is funny until it happens to them then its the end of the world. Chalk it up to parents who are just as bad and pass all their social garbage on to the kids. Rational caring humans never go there ....only those with IQ's like anyone in the George Bush family... mental midgets have no place in the world of sensitive people ..... they make one fully understand why some animals eat their young

please do what you can to stop these lowlifes from breeding more like themselves
posted by Dr. Curare at 7:48 PM on December 27, 2007

I vote languagehat for mod #5. That. Is. All.
posted by YamwotIam at 7:49 PM on December 27, 2007 [4 favorites]

I say we start with the non-punctuators.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:51 PM on December 27, 2007

there are an increasingly large number of people who are dolts with no sense of anything in this life they are cretin level idiots

Well said.
posted by fish tick at 7:51 PM on December 27, 2007

Ryvar, do let me know the next time you go to someone's funeral then get up and let people know what kind of jerk they were in life, because I'd like to sit in the back row and watch hilarity ensue.

The only hilarity is that you're confusing a funeral with a discussion on the internet.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

Dr. Curare, cure thyself with thine own medicine.
posted by jonmc at 7:53 PM on December 27, 2007

There is never an 'inappropriate' time for the truth.

Let me take wild guess....you've never been married?
posted by milarepa at 7:59 PM on December 27, 2007 [9 favorites]

Now that's comedy!
posted by nola at 8:02 PM on December 27, 2007

Sorry about that, I just could not resist. My comment is copy pasted from the "best answer" for the Yahoo Answers' question: "Why do people laugh at other peoples pain?".

Just trying to illustrate the fact that we still have a looong way to fall before we hit bottom here at Mefi.

For the record, I agree with Languagehat on this, I agree with him like 90% of the time.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:03 PM on December 27, 2007

Jonmc: I'd love to get my hands on some curare. You know it took surgeons a few years to figure out that curare is not an anesthetic? It just renders the patient unable to complain.
posted by Dr. Curare at 8:04 PM on December 27, 2007

quonsar did it.
posted by flabdablet at 8:11 PM on December 27, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm sure if Metafilter had a similar group of conservatives...

Did somebody call my name? I was busy oppressing the underclass ... ?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:16 PM on December 27, 2007

Let me take wild guess....you've never been married?

The science of not letting scathing honesty become a problem in your relationships rests on only having relationships with scathingly honest people.

. . . the *art* is in pulling this off while still dating physically attractive people.
posted by Ryvar at 8:17 PM on December 27, 2007 [4 favorites]

I don't care if you're a card-carrying member of the Socialist Party -- if you throw your lot in with the Fox-News-style reactionary crowd here, that's who you become.

To think that anyone here, including me, is a "Fox-News-style reactionary" is pretty damn laughable. When they're behind the wheel (of their hybrids) most folks here would rather make three left turns to avoid one right.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:20 PM on December 27, 2007

What will the Bhutto assassination mean for the future stability of Metafilter?

artist's rendition:
Mommy? Daddy? Why are you yelling? Everyone needs a hug.
posted by not_on_display at 8:33 PM on December 27, 2007

>>I don't care if you're a card-carrying member of the Socialist Party -- if you throw your lot in with the Fox-News-style reactionary crowd here, that's who you become.

>To think that anyone here, including me, is a "Fox-News-style reactionary" is pretty damn laughable. When they're behind the wheel (of their hybrids) most folks here would rather make three left turns to avoid one right.

Not sure what the hybrids non sequitur has to do with this... case in point about some people being willing to toss in a partisan jab at any possible opportunity...

but, I can see where my original statement was confusing (sheer dumb punctuation). So, I'll clarify.

"If, while at MetaFilter, you throw your lot in with the general Fox-News-style reactionary crowd, that's who you become in the eyes of MeFites."

In other words, I'm not saying there is or isn't a particular flavor of conservative contingent here among MeFites... but there certainly is one Out There In The World, and they are vocal on the internets and one will certainly get associated with them by bringing that weak-ass behavior in here.
posted by pineapple at 8:41 PM on December 27, 2007

"If, while at MetaFilter, you throw your lot in with the general Fox-News-style reactionary crowd, that's who you become in the eyes of MeFites."

Perhaps, but it can't be helped. When one is getting abused on the blue over the most benign statements, simply because they aren't liberal enough, one is either going to leave or start having a bit of fun (of which ranting about liberals in the gray is one sort). It's inevitable.

And, as goes without saying, those of us who are still here are the ones who didn't leave.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 8:50 PM on December 27, 2007

one will certainly get associated with them by bringing that weak-ass behavior in here

As long as you're in the spirit of clarifying things, what the heck does that mean?

One second you're railing against partisan jabs no doubt while listening to Joan Baez* and the next you seem to be saying that it's impossible to bring certain viewpoints to the MeFi table without there being some kind of requisite shunning.

I mean, I think I get what you're saying about the Jesus Saves the Little Green Footballs kinda whackos that really do exist Out There In The World.

But, c'mon. You seem to think you're trying real hard to be open-minded...

* I kid, I kid...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:50 PM on December 27, 2007

The science of not letting scathing honesty become a problem in your relationships rests on only having relationships with scathingly honest people.

. . . the *art* is in pulling this off while still dating physically attractive people.

Was that a convoluted way of saying "Yes, you are right. I have never been married."?
posted by milarepa at 9:00 PM on December 27, 2007 [2 favorites]

"Tex": ... one is either going to leave or start having a bit of fun (of which ranting about liberals in the gray is one sort). It's inevitable.

It's not inevitable. You could, perhaps, not take it out on liberals who haven't chewed you out for not meeting those supposed thresholds.

CPB: I think the weak-ass behaviour in question is the gratuitous peppering of "liberal" as a negative adjective.
posted by CKmtl at 9:02 PM on December 27, 2007

Just stopped by for hugs. An unreasonable number of hugs.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:05 PM on December 27, 2007

One second you're railing against partisan jabs no doubt while listening to Joan Baez* and the next you seem to be saying that it's impossible to bring certain viewpoints to the MeFi table without there being some kind of requisite shunning.

Nope. I don't care which "side" one wants to espouse, as long as one can do that espousing with reason, intellectual honesty, a modicum of real (or believably feigned) interest in letting the other side have their turn at the pulpit too, and respect for the venue. The seeming incapability of letting any single conversation pass by without injecting a bunch of partisan noise would be at direct odds with the notion of equal turns at the wheel, and with respect for the venue.

Sorry that you immediately assumed that I meant that merely having a neocon opinion is the weak-ass behavior. (Don't beat yourself up though; I'm sure it isn't the first time the two have been conflated.)

When one is getting abused on the blue over the most benign statements, simply because they aren't liberal enough, one is either going to leave or start having a bit of fun (of which ranting about liberals in the gray is one sort).

I simply don't agree that those are your only two options. I think it's easier to make those the two defaults, because, let's be honest -- the alternatives are far too much work to be any fun, right?

(Plus, "abused," really? Now I know you aren't really from Texas. We breed thicker skin down here.)

Look, if you need to be Fun Political One-Liner Jab Comedy Guy, do what works. (Didn't realize there was a vacancy here, but I'm sure y'all can fight for the honors)

I'm just saying I'm disappointed because I was hoping you'd end up choosing a different path. I'll get over it though, so rock out with your mock out.
posted by pineapple at 9:08 PM on December 27, 2007

*gets popcorn. and hugs. and comments to keep this in recent activity*
posted by Phire at 9:13 PM on December 27, 2007

So, wait, languagehat is being screamed at for not being, what "saddened enough" by Bhutto''s assassination?

Nah, it seemed to me that (at least some of) the screaming was over a bit of hypocrisy on languagehat's part... for example (from the original thread):

LH: unless you're equally full of hot burning compassionate tears for every single human who dies anywhere, you're a canting hypocrite.

LH: don't tell me who I can and can't feel sad about, and I'll extend you the same courtesy

These two statements seem to be rather in contradiction, and I think LH was rightly called out on that. Maybe I misread or misunderstood the callout, but I thought it was not b/c languagehat did not feel enough emotion over Bhutto's death, but rather because he criticized others for showing that emotion, believing that is was false to display it unless it was displayed for every death, while at the same time allocating to himself the sole right to mourn who he chose to. The first of those ideas is perhaps in contradiction with the later sentiment of one being allowed to mourn who one choses to mourn (as I think one should) , without being told whether or not it is appropriate by others.
posted by modernnomad at 9:17 PM on December 27, 2007 [7 favorites]

Was that a convoluted way of saying "Yes, you are right. I have never been married."?

You seem awfully intent on my personal life, and I prefer to be flippant rather than defensive, but to put your mind at ease: my ex and I lived together for 2.5 years, and then married for a further 3. The relationship ended for reasons unrelated to our mutual penchant for brutal candor.

The only problem with having a partner you can always be *completely* honest with is that afterwards any other kind of relationship seems like a chore.
posted by Ryvar at 9:26 PM on December 27, 2007

I think it's easier to make those the two defaults, because, let's be honest -- the alternatives are far too much work to be any fun, right?

Honestly, between all of the "Mr. 'Haliburtons'" calling me a monster and pyramid termite, klangklangston, and co. following me around sniping, I'm not realistically going to become an integrated member of this community. I just don't have the superhuman patience that would require.

I could leave, but I paid my $5, damn it.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 9:52 PM on December 27, 2007

I just wanted to point out that I am liberal, and sometimes I complain about the tendency of liberals to do particular things (myself included sometimes), and the best way to complain about it is to say 'liberals do x,y,z' and if that comes off as using the term pejoratively, y'all are way too sensitive.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:11 PM on December 27, 2007

My dad paid at least 5 bucks for a football I never touched, and he seems to have forgotten the idea that he'd ever see a RO his I. What are you waiting for, tex?
posted by localhuman at 10:12 PM on December 27, 2007

What are you waiting for, tex?

To play football? I don't understand the question.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 10:16 PM on December 27, 2007

Are you drunk, or just out of your mind today, languagehat?

You're the fucking doctor, ikkuyu2, you tell us :D

I think languagehat was completely within norms on all the comments linked by the OP. A little cranky? Yes. Perhaps in questionable taste to quibble over nuances on the occasion of someone's death? Yes. But none of that is out of bounds, friends. And neither is taking on everyone. When you're a knock-down, drag-out, razor-clawed motherfucker like languagehat you just get to roll that way when you want to.
posted by scarabic at 10:18 PM on December 27, 2007

*shoots Weebot in the neck, detonates self*
posted by LarryC at 10:54 PM on December 27, 2007

I would like to thank pineapple for his reasoned answers to my questions. I look forward to more discussions of that kind, and I won't hold it against him that he's from Texas.

Now, I wish him well on the next leg of the Lilith Tour.

Again, I kid, I kid...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:04 PM on December 27, 2007

"Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys writes "To play football? I don't understand the question."

It means maybe $5 isn't a good reason to get hung up here, if you really don't like it.

OTOH, I find that avoiding the political threads (and Metatalk, for that matter) is less aggravating. There's a lot more on the site.
posted by krinklyfig at 11:07 PM on December 27, 2007

It means maybe $5 isn't a good reason to get hung up here, if you really don't like it.

Sounds like veiled way to tell someone to "Fuck off," to me.
posted by Cyrano at 11:53 PM on December 27, 2007

Is it too late to post the excreting elephant? If not, would you prefer the smaller elephant or the larger elephant?
posted by Krrrlson at 12:01 AM on December 28, 2007

I'd like to defend my right to be sad that the post in question misspelled "assassinated".

Say what you like about languagehat, he never would have done that.
posted by taz at 12:10 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

"Liberatard" is a horrible word. It is a compound that cherrypicks morphemes from two other words, unfairly uniting two groups and doing disservice to both. But it is also impossible to pronounce, since it has a useless extra syllable (li-ber-A-tard) that reassigns the stress pattern (is it LIEberAtard, liBERatard, liberAtard, or libertard?).

Unless of course, you are referring to an acrobatics uniform worn by liberals, but I personally would have used an "o" in that case.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:34 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

Approximately eight seconds after her car pulled out of the driveway, the cat went into heat.

Now the damned thing is howling constantly and crawling all over me. It's jumping on the computer and digging its claws (all fucking 70 of them, or whatever - she decided not to get it declawed) into my legs.

I was gobsmacked the first time I saw a female cat in heat. We'd always desexed our female cats as soon as we were able, but I got slack and didn't get in quickly enough with my little black cat. Holy shit, it was totally obscene! I had to put her in a room with a toy and some catnip, far away from my delicate ears, after only a very short while.

ObTopic: On just about every obit thread that I've read, someone comes in and says the equivalent of what languagehat said. I usually agree with the counter-argument but I don't want to come to blows with the person who said what I disagreed with because it's about emotions and that about as subjective as it comes so, because it seems so easy to get into an argument here, I usually just favourite accordingly.

Yes, I am a coward.
posted by h00py at 12:59 AM on December 28, 2007

A lot of noise about "hypocrisy" in this thread. I've always felt that hypocrisy, if it could be considered a sin at all, is the least of all sins, in the great hierarchy of evil placed somewhere below whistling tunelessly in public places. It's such a childish outlook, "you say this now but you said something else earlier that contradicts what you say now therefore everything you say is dismissable."

Being a troll is despicable, saying whatever is expedient is deplorable, but holding opinions that seemingly contradict each other is being human.
posted by Kattullus at 1:32 AM on December 28, 2007

You're the fucking doctor, ikkuyu2..

And here I was thinking he was a neurologist.
posted by Rumple at 2:08 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

I was sittin' home alone one night in L.A.,
Watchin' old Cronkite on the seven o'clock news.
It seems there was an earthquake that
Left nothin' but a Panama hat
And a pair of old Greek shoes.
Didn't seem like much was happenin',
So I turned it off and went to grab another beer.
Seems like every time you turn around
There's another hard-luck story that you're gonna hear
And there's really nothin' anyone can say
And I never did plan to go anyway
To Black Diamond Bay.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:12 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

The inverse of this was the Virginia Tech shooting thread where anyone wanting to discuss gun control was taken to task for it being too soon, too political, etc. I suspect if Languagehat had posted in a few days something to the effect of "I am not really missing BB nor sad she died" it would have not been commented on. But "too soon" = people not ready for context and looking for someone close at hand to lash out at.

Yeah, you're absolutely right, and frankly, if I had thought there was a large contingent of MeFites who felt close to Benazir Bhutto and would be mourning her death personally (as opposed to regretting it as they would any human death and as a terrible blow to Pakistan, which was my reaction) I wouldn't have written my comment the way I did. I guess I take my anti-politician attitude too much for granted. (Although I can't help but feel that those who treat her as a fallen saint don't actually know much about her life and career; there are some very useful links in the original thread.) Anyway, I certainly wasn't trying to stir up shit or make anyone feel bad; I thought I was simply stating the obvious. Apologies to anyone who got their feelings hurt.

*pats konolia on head*

These two statements seem to be rather in contradiction, and I think LH was rightly called out on that. Maybe I misread or misunderstood the callout, but I thought it was not b/c languagehat did not feel enough emotion over Bhutto's death, but rather because he criticized others for showing that emotion, believing that is was false to display it unless it was displayed for every death

Yes, that's correct; as I said in the original thread, that initial statement about how you can't mourn her unless you mourn everyone in the entire world was an absurd overstatement brought on by my anger at the asshat who said I had no humanity or compassion. My later statement (don't tell me who I can and can't feel sad about, and I'll extend you the same courtesy) corresponds to my actual beliefs. I hope this is the last time I have to clear that up.
posted by languagehat at 6:07 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

*pats LH on the head*

Very well said.

Am I still invited to your funeral?
posted by The Deej at 6:12 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Absolutely! You can bring the booze.
posted by languagehat at 6:35 AM on December 28, 2007

Tex: "When one is getting abused on the blue over the most benign statements, simply because they aren't liberal enough"

I'm not sure who the subjects, objects, and indirect objects of that sentence are, but if we're talking about languagehat: He's an anarchist who doesn't mourn the death of almost any politician, preferring to save his tears for artists and musicians. If anything, someone is getting abused on the blue over benign statements, simply because they are too liberal. The people complaining about languagehat are, for the most part, a lot more conservative than he is.
posted by Bugbread at 6:49 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

This thread needs a theme song. How about:

Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day Lyrics

Well I'm about to get sick
From watchin' my TV
Been checkin' out the news
Until my eyeballs fail to see
I mean to say that every day
Is just another rotten mess
And when it's gonna change, my friend
Is anybody's guess

So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Wednesday I watched the riot . . .
Seen the cops out on the street
Watched 'em throwin' rocks and stuff
And chokin' in the heat
Listened to reports
About the whisky passin' 'round
Seen the smoke and fire
And the market burnin' down
Watched while everybody
On his street would take a turn
To stomp and smash and bash and crash
And slash and bust and burn

And I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Well, you can cool it,
You can heat it . . .
'Cause, baby, I don't need it . . .
Take your TV tube and eat it
'N all that phony stuff on sports
'N all the unconfirmed reports
You know I watched that rotten box
Until my head begin to hurt
From checkin' out the way
The newsman say they get the dirt
Before the guys on channel so-and-so

And further they assert
That any show they'll interrupt
To bring you news if it comes up
They say that if the place blows up
They will be the first to tell,
Because the boys they got downtown
Are workin' hard and doin' swell,
And if anybody gets the news
Before it hits the street,
They say that no one blabs it faster
Their coverage can't be beat

And if another woman driver
Gets machine-gunned from her seat
They'll send some joker with a brownie
And you'll see it all complete

So I'm watchin' and I'm waitin'
Hopin' for the best
Even think I'll go to prayin'
Every time I hear 'em sayin'
That there's no way to delay
That trouble comin' every day
No way to delay
That trouble comin' every day

Hey, you know something people?
I'm not black
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white

Well, I seen the fires burnin'
And the local people turnin'
On the merchants and the shops
Who used to sell their brooms and mops
And every other household item
Watched the mob just turn and bite 'em
And they say it served 'em right
Because a few of them are white,
And it's the same across the nation
Black and white discrimination
Yellin' "You can't understand me!"
'N all that other jazz they hand me
In the papers and TV and
All that mass stupidity
That seems to grow more every day
Each time you hear some nitwit say
He wants to go and do you in
Because the color of your skin
Just don't appeal to him
(No matter if it's black or white)
Because he's out for blood tonight

You know we got to sit around at home
And watch this thing begin
But I bet there won't be many live
To see it really end
'Cause the fire in the street
Ain't like the fire in the heart
And in the eyes of all these people
Don't you know that this could start
On any street in any town
In any state if any clown
Decides that now's the time to fight
For some ideal he thinks is right
And if a million more agree
There ain't no Great Society
As it applies to you and me
Our country isn't free
And the law refuses to see
If all that you can ever be
Is just a lousy janitor
Unless your uncle owns a store
You know that five in every four
Just won't amount to nothin' more
Gonna watch the rats go across the floor
And make up songs about being poor

Blow your harmonica, son!

posted by RussHy at 6:54 AM on December 28, 2007

If any of you don't like it, that is your privilege but I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT

Funny, that's how many of us feel about e.g. your anti-gay bigotry. Of course, that's different, innit? Gah.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 6:56 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

.
posted by rbs at 7:40 AM on December 28, 2007

dnab, you're kind of pulling that in out of the blue in a way that seems poor form.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:25 AM on December 28, 2007

pointing out hypocrisy, cortex. seems to be the genesis of this post.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:33 AM on December 28, 2007

But pointing it out in a very unprompted, post hoc way in a personal attack on another user, which seems pretty lousy to me, however strongly you feel about past history.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:36 AM on December 28, 2007

Bad news for America, obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside John Kennedy's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another corrupt pol . . .

Bad news for America, obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside Robert Kennedy's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another corrupt pol . . .

Bad news for America, obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside Martin Luther King's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another corrupt pol . . .

Bad news for the world of Music obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside John Lennon's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another corrupt pop star. . .

Bad news for the South Africa obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside Steve Biko's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another terrorist . . .

Bad news for the America obviously, but I'm not sure why anyone outside John Lennon's Abraham Lincoln's immediate family would be "saddened" by his loss. He was just another corrupt pol . . .
posted by Neiltupper at 8:39 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

like all good Americans, I dislike nepotism and those that benefit from it disproportionate to their actual talents.

There goes dhammond, stealing my heart again. Especially the "all good Americans" part.

I'm being serious.
posted by breezeway at 8:39 AM on December 28, 2007

~~John Lennon's~~ Abraham Lincoln's.

A bad case of cut- and- post
posted by Neiltupper at 8:42 AM on December 28, 2007

A bad case of ~~cut- and- post~~ mindless blathering.
posted by languagehat at 8:47 AM on December 28, 2007 [4 favorites]

Neiltupper, smearing Lincoln is a stupid and unworthy act, especially in pursuit of a flippant rhetorical flourish. You're probably not an idiot, but statements like that leave room for doubt on that score.
posted by breezeway at 8:47 AM on December 28, 2007

Neitupper, you should get a harmonica.
posted by RussHy at 8:54 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

dnab, you're kind of pulling that in out of the blue in a way that seems poor form.

Meh. It's metatalk. If someone's not pulling something in out of the blue, they're pulling it in out of the green.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:58 AM on December 28, 2007

Metafilter: a a good case a bad case of cut-and-post
posted by Rumple at 9:00 AM on December 28, 2007

I was getting worked up scrolling through RussHy's comment. I noticed the formatting and thought he'd posted his epic "Death of BB" or copy-pasted something he liked. Then I notice it's Frank Zappa and I like Frank Zappa.

I'm going 'round the corner to stone me. What a hypocrite!
posted by ersatz at 9:09 AM on December 28, 2007

Meh. It's metatalk. If someone's not pulling something in out of the blue, they're pulling it in out of ~~the green~~ their ass.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:19 AM on December 28, 2007

Apologies to anyone who got their feelings hurt.

Non-apology!
posted by Mid at 9:20 AM on December 28, 2007

He's an anarchist who doesn't mourn the death of almost any politician,
preferring to save his tears for artists and musicians.

A little metric cleanup and this could be a couplet from "The Ballad of Languagehat".
posted by oats at 9:34 AM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

>>dnab, you're kind of pulling that in out of the blue in a way that seems poor form.

>Meh. It's metatalk. If someone's not pulling something in out of the blue, they're pulling it in out of the green.

You know, it wasn't till I saw Peter's comment that I realized that cortex didn't actually originally intend "pulling that in out of the blue" = "pulling that in from The Blue".

The brainwashing, it is almost complete...
posted by pineapple at 9:39 AM on December 28, 2007

It means maybe $5 isn't a good reason to get hung up here, if you really don't like it.

Oh, I do like it. That's my whole point. Bashing liberals is glorious fun.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 9:58 AM on December 28, 2007

Coming in late here, but I think Languagehat is at his magnificent cranky best in that thread. He is railing against the Oprah-ization of the news, where the emphasis is always on how we feel about events rather than what we should think and do about them. Logging onto a message board to make a public display of your sadness over the death of someone you never met, have minimal knowledge of really, and no emotional bond with is weird and nearly obscene.
posted by LarryC at 10:14 AM on December 28, 2007 [12 favorites]

Tex- So head back on over to Freep then, if your only purpose here is to stir shit up then I look forward greatly to your eventual flameout. Sure, not everybody here contributes to the overall level of discourse, but if your stated purpose here is to troll then I don't care what your political leanings are, you should get the hell off the lawn.
posted by baphomet at 10:26 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh, I do like it. That's my whole point. Bashing liberals is glorious fun.

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:29 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

I can't really see why someone who admits that he doesn't give a damn would care to get involved.

Because when you don't care on the internets, you have to repeatedly tell everyone you don't care so that they know just how much you don't care. Then you have to come back and make sure they comment about your not caring so you know they know that you don't care. Then comment again to make sure your not going to be mistaking for caring when you obviously don't care, you were just making sure everyone understood you don't care from your previous statement of not caring. And then if someone comes in and claims you really do care, it's important to correct that by telling them also that you don't care, otherwise someone coming in late to the thread might think you care and you don't care.

Repeat ad nauseam.

What, is this your first day on the internet? Not that I care or anything.

Because I don't care. At all. Not even a little bit.

And I'll be back later to make sure you understand how much I don't care.
posted by FunkyHelix at 10:36 AM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Coming in late here ... [yaddayaddayadda] ... is weird and nearly obscene.
posted by LarryC

Yeah, well, here's how I feel about that:

..|..
posted by The Deej at 10:39 AM on December 28, 2007

Sure, not everybody here contributes to the overall level of discourse, but if your stated purpose here is to troll then I don't care what your political leanings are, you should get the hell off the lawn.

My comments on the blue and green have, and will continue to be, entirely unobjectionable.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 10:44 AM on December 28, 2007

I would like to thank pineapple for his reasoned answers to my questions. I look forward to more discussions of that kind, and I won't hold it against him that he's from Texas. ...Now, I wish him well on the next leg of the Lilith Tour.

Thanks... I think.

Say, is that tendency to assume that all "reasonable" people ergo must be male, is that a Republican thing? ;)

"I can't really see why someone who admits that he doesn't give a damn would care to get involved." "Because when you don't care on the internets, you have to repeatedly tell everyone you don't care so that they know just how much you don't care."

(FunkyHelix, I'm intending here to more address the person who made the comment you quoted, but I can't find it in the thread. I thought your take on internet caring was funny.)

Assuming the original statement was re LH, I'd like to say that it's totally possible to not care about Subject X, and still have an opinion on how Subject X was handled at MeFi. I do that fairly often -- I don't have a dog in the hunt on the original topic, but I do have an opinion specifically on the subsequent MeTa discussion, so I only participate there. So, I think it's reasonable for someone to say "I don't care about this assassination," and also participate in the conversation that ensues about whether or not it's [insert your favorite pejorative here] to not care about the assassination.

Meta enough for y'all?
posted by pineapple at 10:49 AM on December 28, 2007

Assuming the original statement was re LH, I'd like to say that it's totally possible to not care about Subject X, and still have an opinion on how Subject X was handled at MeFi.

I certainly agree with your point, but it didn't occur to me that that might be aimed at me, because (like any non-brain-dead person) I do care about the subject of the Bhutto assassination. As LarryC said, I don't like the emphasis on "how we feel about events rather than what we should think and do about them."
posted by languagehat at 10:59 AM on December 28, 2007

I think we've all gotten lost in the argumentation, and neglected what's truly important: validating my feelings. Preferably in a storm of affirmations and expressions of mutual emotion. Thank you in advance.
posted by aramaic at 11:06 AM on December 28, 2007

*hugs aramaic*

I... I love you, man! You're the greatest!
posted by languagehat at 11:08 AM on December 28, 2007

*storms affirmations, seizes emotions expressions, offers to aramaic*

There ya go.

Totally off topic, but 'Subject X' could be a really cool username.
posted by quin at 11:15 AM on December 28, 2007

Totally off topic, but 'Subject X' could be a really cool username.

My GEnie user name was Citizen Q.

Yeah... GEnie. Got sup'm ta say?

Whippersnapper.
posted by The Deej at 12:17 PM on December 28, 2007

What are you doing here? You're not even in that thread.
posted by languagehat at 6:26 PM on December 27

***

Assuming the original statement was re LH, I'd like to say that it's totally possible to not care about Subject X, and still have an opinion on how Subject X was handled at MeFi.

I certainly agree with your point...
posted by languagehat at 1:59 PM on December 28
posted by stinkycheese at 1:06 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Bah! I care so little about this I don't even want to put in the effort to post a comment to tell you how little I care.
posted by The Deej at 1:21 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

I am overwhelmed by my underwhelmedness.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:28 PM on December 28, 2007

I care less than all of you put together.
posted by The Deej at 1:30 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Sure, not everybody here contributes to the overall level of discourse, but if your stated purpose here is to troll then I don't care what your political leanings are, you should get the hell off the lawn.

Actually, it's only fifteen bucks to get to the MetaFilter Prime level, where you get to be as douchey as you want without fear of reprisal. He's already quit and come back once this year: You're five dollars away, man!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:30 PM on December 28, 2007

And the novel is about how little I care.
posted by The Deej at 1:31 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

posted by stinkycheese at 4:06 PM on December 28

So wait, are you the official "guy who hates languagehat" or do you do anything else around here?
posted by Krrrlson at 1:37 PM on December 28, 2007

He's actually my sockpuppet. I occasionally make wild attacks on myself in the guise of a belligerent moron in order to stir up sympathy for myself. And hey, it works!
posted by languagehat at 1:57 PM on December 28, 2007 [4 favorites]

What else can one say about stinkycheese? Well... he goes well with a glass of nice, dry red waaaaaahmbulance.
posted by Kattullus at 1:58 PM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

That's alright guys, I care enough for all of us.

In the ancient tradition of my people, I have just set my pubic hair on fire in protest of, inter alia, all of the shit going on in this thread.

Any continuation of the aforementioned shit will have to take place in the obscured shadows cast by the dancing flames of my pubic mound.
posted by psmith at 2:15 PM on December 28, 2007

I have just set my pubic hair...

Ala McFly? McFly set fire to their pubic hair during appearance in London [longer video].
posted by ericb at 3:17 PM on December 28, 2007

*happily toasts marshmallows over psmith's pubic flames*
posted by languagehat at 3:21 PM on December 28, 2007

mindless blathering.

Exactly, languagehat. It simply mirrors the mindless blathering of your post in the green. Hope you got the point.
posted by Neiltupper at 3:33 PM on December 28, 2007

If languagehat offers you a toasted marshmallow, DON'T EAT IT.

I mention this because I care more than any of you.

I care so much that, while the rest of you were arguing over whether we should care about Benazir Bhutto, I was attempting to suicide bomb the Pakistani embassy, and discovering that suicide bombing is something I really suck at. (And to the first one of you who says I should keep trying, I promise I'll start practicing at your house.)
posted by wendell at 3:35 PM on December 28, 2007

I liked the old unfunny wendell a lot more than the new unfunny violent wendell.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:02 PM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

Well, I didn't make this year's list, so I gotta kick it up a notch.
posted by wendell at 4:05 PM on December 28, 2007

:)
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:13 PM on December 28, 2007

My comments on the blue and green have, and will continue to be, entirely unobjectionable.

you are not the arbiter of whether your comments are objectionable.
posted by Hat Maui at 5:07 PM on December 28, 2007

*nudges Hat*

(Pssst. Dude. Check your sarcasm meter, I think it might be broken.)
posted by Ryvar at 5:22 PM on December 28, 2007

you are not the arbiter of whether your comments are objectionable.

I disagree. No one is better suited.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:26 PM on December 28, 2007

Which is why we only allow people to flag their own comments, natch.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:27 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Flagging is a lot like voting. It's a useful way to let the masses feel as though they have a say, but overall, it's unimportant to the system.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:37 PM on December 28, 2007

I hear beauty's in the eye of the mirror-holder, too.
posted by CKmtl at 5:37 PM on December 28, 2007

*crackle crackle*
posted by psmith at 5:52 PM on December 28, 2007

did you know that trolling on the net is a lot like masturbating in the special olympics, tex?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:02 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Stop talking to me, pyramid termite, or I'm going to AskMe how to get rid of my Internet stalker. In my question, I'll make it clear that I'm talking about you, even though won't mention you by name.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 6:06 PM on December 28, 2007

How could you acquire an Internet Stalker after a month and a day on a site, and 100-and-change comments?

I smell sockpuppet.
posted by CKmtl at 6:19 PM on December 28, 2007

Tex, if you do that I will give you a jillion points if you work in references to pyramids using the Egyptian rather than the Greek names.

Also, judging by your comments in the blue, you're and asset to metafilter and I selfishly hope your commitment to that $5 lasts a while longer. Even if you're being a peepee in this here thread. Double also, in that recent argument about corporate veils someone should have made a distinction between public and private companies. Maybe I just missed it though.
posted by psmith at 6:23 PM on December 28, 2007

I am an angry and persecuted "principled" conservative with a long ass login and I've only been here for about a month.
posted by Divine_Wino at 6:32 PM on December 28, 2007

I hope that none of you bastards were taunting that poor tiger.
posted by Mid at 6:33 PM on December 28, 2007

Stop talking to me! You...you...poopyhead!

Bashing liberals is glorious fun.
C'mon, go for it. You seemed ready to take on all comers earlier.
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:35 PM on December 28, 2007

Dr. Steve "Tex" Connor and the Wily Mr. America President Elvis Boys Roundup.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:43 PM on December 28, 2007 [1 favorite]

Stop talking to me, pyramid termite, or I'm going to AskMe how to get rid of my Internet stalker.

xanax - lots and lots of xanax
posted by pyramid termite at 6:48 PM on December 28, 2007

I kinda like Steve's new name, though. It sounds like it should be the title of a William Burroughs novel.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:56 PM on December 28, 2007

I don't think Tex is Elvis. I don't know who Tex is but I'd bet large money he went to law school because he sure writes like it.

Dr. Steve Elvis etc... never struck me that way.

I've been wrong once or twice or, fine .. maybe a lot of times in the past, but unless Dr. Steve Elvis etc... was purposefully adulterating his style in anticipation of a later account I don't think the tex==elvis theory is likely true.
posted by psmith at 7:02 PM on December 28, 2007

Also, in as much as I give a fig for politics on metafilter, the only thing I do liberally is pour drinks for my friends, I'm a fucking anarchist philosophically, a leftist politically, a humanist socially and I vote for democrats, holding my nose, when there is something at stake. I'm as rational as an icepick to the throat and none of your desperate bleating is going to change that, you fucking soulless solipsist greedy shitbirds in the "conservative" movement in the America of the last moments of 2007 can eat a large tin of emergency survival cold war gnarled up dicks as far as I'm concerned.

You're a fucking footnote in a long and shitty history of man's inhumanity to man and you aren't going to win, because there ain't no pockets in a shroud.

There are many people who have a conservative philosophy that I'm happy to talk to and certainly to call my friend, but not a one of them that still defends the current administration or isn't disgusted by what has been done in the name of their ideology will I not call a dupe and a quisling to their face.

Fuck you and goodnight.

Languagehat wasn't particularly wrong even if he wasn't as nice as he could have been about what he said, but niceness ain't really in it kids.

Tex could certainly not be Steve Elvis at all, but he might as well be, a wink is as good as a nod. Tune in next week and all that.
posted by Divine_Wino at 7:07 PM on December 28, 2007 [9 favorites]

"Stop talking to me, pyramid termite, or I'm going to AskMe how to get rid of my Internet stalker."

That's already been answered.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:09 PM on December 28, 2007

Steve was actually pretty fond of flaunting his vast and quite possibly completely fictitious legal expertise, psmith. There are other tipoffs, too. I'm one of the few people, apparently, who likes Steve -- no, really! -- though I'm disappointed when his argument style descends into South Park republicanism. One of the reasons I do like him is because we don't agree on anything (hell, even the one time he linked to a porn pic, the chica was kinda bland and whitebread in my estimation...I mean, literally, we agree on NOTHING) and yet his arguments are usually at least entertaining to read, and have occasionally even changed my mind on something. But I do hope he pulls out of this "I'm just here to bait the liberatards" downward spiral; it's kinda beneath him.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:12 PM on December 28, 2007

Hm. In that case I bow to your sense of this, kittens for breakfast.
posted by psmith at 7:19 PM on December 28, 2007

divine_wino, that was inspired. perhaps from on high.
posted by Hat Maui at 8:02 PM on December 28, 2007

How could you acquire an Internet Stalker after a month and a day on a site, and 100-and-change comments?

I almost feel like you're blaming the victim here. I don't know how I acquired a stalker! All I know is that pyramid termite keeps showing up to snipe at me.

For what it's worth, I don't think Tex is Elvis either.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 8:02 PM on December 28, 2007

Ok, I've stalked Dr. Steve and Tex's posting history (because I'm in town for 24 hours between flights) and I still think they're not the same. I don't have the patience or level of emotional involvement to deliver an exegesis on the subject, but I place my thought there next to my burning pubes.

However, I neither represent nor warrant nor covenant to shit on this topic.
posted by psmith at 8:15 PM on December 28, 2007

divine_wino, that was inspired. perhaps from on high.

Well, you know Hat Maui, my dear friend, that Jesus was a Capricorn...

...he ate organic foods.
He believed in love and peace and never wore no shoes.
Long hair, beard and sandals and a funky bunch of friends.
Reckon they'd just nail him up if He come down again.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:27 PM on December 28, 2007

Well, I don't know who Tex is. All I do know is that sitting on my shelf is a can of whupass with his name on it. Just waiting to be opened.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:58 PM on December 28, 2007

By the way, for anyone who might not know who wrote the snippet that Divine_Wino quoted above, it's Kris Kristofferson.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:01 PM on December 28, 2007

BTW, miss lynnster, is that the organic whupass?
posted by flapjax at midnite at 10:04 PM on December 28, 2007

Jesus rode west of the Pecos,
A six-gun strapped tight to His side;
His mare was slim and His mien was grim;
He wore boots of rattlesnake hide.

They say He brought with Him a dust storm
That scoured the wicked of sin,
His eyes burned up hate as He rode to his fate
Trusting His divine Next of Kin.

Not long before Canyon de Chelly
The Lord felt a chill in the air.
He came to a course far too steep for His Horse,
Climbed on foot 'til He came to a lair.

Here the Great Bear slept,
The sky deep in his wintry breast,
The winds heaving with every breath,
He slept.

Jesus called into the mountain,
He called out His enemy's name:
"Satan, you beast, I will make you deceased!"
As he drew His repeater and aimed.

The Bear took no notice of Jesus,
For he lay deep in sweet lullaby,
But at Jesus' shout, there escaped from his snout
The single sighed syllable, "Why?"

At this Jesus set down His weapon
Then He strode from the dark to the light;
Had He let darkness' fear kill the slumbering Bear
The world would be plunged into Night.

Here Jesus walks the valley;
Here the Bear sleeps deeply.
The ice will melt
As the sun rises.
posted by breezeway at 10:09 PM on December 28, 2007

I thought we were on to the mother of all flameouts here, but no, you guys had to go responding to the troll and derailing the pileon. Shame!
posted by nowonmai at 10:40 PM on December 28, 2007

I'm as rational as an icepick to the throat and none of your desperate bleating is going to change that, you fucking soulless solipsist greedy shitbirds in the "conservative" movement in the America of the last moments of 2007 can eat a large tin of emergency survival cold war gnarled up dicks as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing Tex said was as vitriolic and as "bashing" as this screed, the likes of which I see every single day on Metafilter. These kinds of harsh, generalized statements about conservative people are so commonplace here and I really don't think y'all realize it (or you're just blatant hypocrites, but I honestly don't think so). So when someone comes along and simply makes fun of liberals (not even condemning their characters or their value as people, as this selection does), it seems like some wacko, out or proportion trolling, when it's really just jokes in Metatalk.

Every conservative who expresses a political opinion here has been branded a troll. Every time. Even konolia has been punished. I've read through the entire history of Metatalk, and seen this countless times. Tex isn't trolling because he expresses a conservative viewpoint in Metafilter, and cracks jokes about liberals on the grey. Quite a few of y'all do it ALL THE TIME going the other way, and they're not even jokes. Divine Wino's post is just another example of that. To me it's the leftist/secularist equivalent of condemning someone to hell.
posted by Danila at 10:43 PM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

This thread is somehow making me long for the gentler, more carefree days of parisparamus and dhoyt.
posted by clevershark at 11:06 PM on December 28, 2007

I should probably clarify, btw. The shelved can of whup-ass with Tex's name on it has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever. He earned it elsewhere, via limerick, earlier in the day.
posted by miss lynnster at 11:12 PM on December 28, 2007

Ok, I've stalked Dr. Steve and Tex's posting history (because I'm in town for 24 hours between flights) and I still think they're not the same.

You should try comparing IP addresses in the db sometime. Hot stuff.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:21 PM on December 28, 2007 [2 favorites]

I've read through the entire history of Metatalk

aw, hornswoggle. you haven't even read through this thread. to wit:

Nothing Tex said was as vitriolic and as "bashing" as this screed

no? how about:

Look, if we called out every thread full of hysterical liberals savaging someone

or

Especially since it frequently just means "Don't say it, since if you do, we're going to freak the fuck out like a toddlers with hornets in our diapers."

or

I let out a big sigh every time, for example, some whining, emotional liberal screams that someone is an inhuman monster

or

Metafilter has a large, vocal contingent of completely irrational liberals

or

the other day I had to deal with some retard ranting about the private equity group "Haliburton." That's a clear case of acute liberalness.

or

Bashing liberals is glorious fun.

swap out the references to metafilter, and what you have there is a rush limbaugh transcript.

To me it's the leftist/secularist equivalent of condemning someone to hell

if the condemnation fits...
posted by Hat Maui at 1:17 AM on December 29, 2007

Well, you know Hat Maui, my dear friend, that Jesus was a Capricorn...

he was also way cool. he turned water into wine, and if he wanted to, he could have turned wheat into marijuana, or sugar into cocaine, or vitamin pills into amphetamines...

...no wonder there are so many christians!
posted by Hat Maui at 1:26 AM on December 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

First of all Hat Maui, I have read back from the beginning of Metatalk, with the exception of some boring threads about bugs and certain pony requests. I also read your entire post, waiting for the kicker. I don't see what's so evil about anything Tex said, and I certainly don't think it's trolling. Rush Limbaugh? Is that supposed to be some big deal? Some dude on the radio who makes fun of liberals? At least he still has a sense of humor sometimes.

Divine Wino's words are rather apoplectic to me. Just another polemic, another ideologue, and I think that's worse than anything Tex says. At least he's not foaming at the mouth. Except you agree with Wino, that's the only difference.

Secondly, with the whining and hyper-emotionalism on display not only here, but throughout much of the Blue, not only are some of Tex's observations sadly proven true, over and over again, your inability to see the difference between what he says and what Divine Wino spewed say a lot to me.

There are plenty of leftists here who do not whine whenever faced with a different point of view, but counter with rational argument or, if it's just jokes, give as good as they get. I am not calling for equal opportunity for conservatives here, or that they should be left alone. This is a site that thinks the most loathsome people in America are conservatives and celebrities, and that's the best of the web.

I'm calling out the blatant hypocrisy. Getting all upset because a conservative dared make fun. Going cross-eyed because one stated his opinion on the Blue. I think this is nonsense. And I'm pretty sure that Tex and I disagree on far more than we agree.

Oh, and the condemnation doesn't fit. It doesn't fit anyone. That's what is ultimately so pathetic, at least to me. The religionists who worship false gods and proclaim that those who disagree with them (and babies born out of wedlock, and people born in the wrong country) are going to be tortured forever by a merciful god, and that they deserve it, are no more dangerous than intolerant secularists who see anyone who disagrees with them as not being a person anymore. It's all exactly the same to me.
posted by Danila at 3:00 AM on December 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

Phooey.
posted by Divine_Wino at 3:58 AM on December 29, 2007

I love you guys.

You know that?

I really do.
posted by Jimbob at 4:30 AM on December 29, 2007

I almost feel like you're blaming the victim here. I don't know how I acquired a stalker!

well, i don't know how you went from rockabilly to vegas glitz to texas swing - so there, tex/elvis

---

I don't see what's so evil about anything Tex said, and I certainly don't think it's trolling.

well, just as an example, i've made over 5,000 comments and been here over 5 years - tex shows up a couple of months ago and a couple of hundred comments later, i'm "stalking" him

that's not just trolling - it's cliched, tired trolling - he could have cribbed that from alt.flame 10 years ago

---

You should try comparing IP addresses in the db sometime.

*snickers*
posted by pyramid termite at 4:48 AM on December 29, 2007

PS.

These kinds of harsh, generalized statements about conservative people are so commonplace here and I really don't think y'all realize it (or you're just blatant hypocrites, but I honestly don't think so).

You did not attend to what I wrote Danila, I excluded from my vitriol people of a conservative viewpoint who are not "neo-cons". I can understand, if not agree, with most of the ideas of classical conservatism, but not the current madness that passes for it. Like I said, I stay out of the politics here as much as I can restrain myself. However the always ridiculous "taunt the liberals with silly cliches and complain about being persecuted at the same time" trope always gets my back up, because it's such classic bully-boy behavior. I haven't the foggiest how you got ideologue from anything I wrote.

PPS.
Footnote.
posted by Divine_Wino at 5:32 AM on December 29, 2007 [2 favorites]

if we're talking about languagehat: He's an anarchist who . . .

insists on all sorts of rules for people he thinks are misbehaving.
posted by yerfatma at 5:38 AM on December 29, 2007 [1 favorite]

Oh my, I've just awakened from the most marvelous dream! Whatever could have been in those cookies, I wonder?
posted by breezeway at 6:11 AM on December 29, 2007

Yeah, Danila, I agree with your general take on the situation (and have repeatedly complained about the MeFi double standard and the automatic attacks on conservatives), but you're picking the wrong target. Divine_Wino isn't attacking all conservatives, just the frothers. And yes, there are plenty of lefty frothers around here, but two wrongs, blah blah blah.
posted by languagehat at 6:24 AM on December 29, 2007

/froths
posted by Jofus at 6:41 AM on December 29, 2007

I'm a fucking anarchist philosophically, a leftist politically, a humanist socially and I vote for democrats, holding my nose...

Well said! Very well said.
posted by RussHy at 8:22 AM on December 29, 2007

Danila, harsh words I agree with go down easy but similar words I don't agree with stick in my craw. I bet you're the same. Arguing that one side is worse or better than the other on the level of rhetoric is a fool's game. Ideas are easier to debate.
posted by Kattullus at 8:33 AM on December 29, 2007

You should try comparing IP addresses in the db sometime. Hot stuff.

It seems pretty obvious who he is, frankly, IPs notwithstanding.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:46 AM on December 29, 2007

Oh, are we outing sockpuppets again? I've got one...
posted by Krrrlson at 11:29 AM on December 29, 2007

I'm Krrrlson's sock puppet. Or maybe he's mine!
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:43 AM on December 29, 2007

The world is my sockpuppet.
posted by Krrrlson at 1:43 PM on December 29, 2007

Metafilter: a boiling pisspot of idiocy and pieties.

No, really, that one was necessary.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:46 PM on December 29, 2007

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