Why are "wrong" answers getting deleted now? February 13, 2025 8:34 PM Subscribe
I get annoyed when people answer questions in AskMe that don't meet the asker's stated criteria, but they were not previously deleted this aggressively. That seems like a large change that goes against what many people in MeTa have been asking for, and has been instituted without any discussion.
I mean, it was clear in each deletion - none of the deleted answers were answering the question. Or related to the question.
If it's your intent here to just keep finding ways in which mods are modding wrong, well, nice job go you I guess. As a person who almost exclusively uses Ask over any other Metafilter site, I appreciate the attempt to keep answers related to questions, because it gets tiresome to see questions like "I would like to know X without Y" followed by several iterative answers of "here's what Y is about!", because then the Ask becomes about Y, when the Ask-er really wants an answer to X. Heading those derails off - even if they're well intentioned - keeps the answers more focused on the actual question at hand.
Ask comments may not be as fighty as some MeFi threads where deletions are contentious, but that section is there for just as good of a reason, and deleting answers that do not relate to the ask before they spawn an entire thread of their own in the comments is a good policy, at least as far as I'm concerned.
posted by pdb at 8:53 PM on February 13 [37 favorites]
If it's your intent here to just keep finding ways in which mods are modding wrong, well, nice job go you I guess. As a person who almost exclusively uses Ask over any other Metafilter site, I appreciate the attempt to keep answers related to questions, because it gets tiresome to see questions like "I would like to know X without Y" followed by several iterative answers of "here's what Y is about!", because then the Ask becomes about Y, when the Ask-er really wants an answer to X. Heading those derails off - even if they're well intentioned - keeps the answers more focused on the actual question at hand.
Ask comments may not be as fighty as some MeFi threads where deletions are contentious, but that section is there for just as good of a reason, and deleting answers that do not relate to the ask before they spawn an entire thread of their own in the comments is a good policy, at least as far as I'm concerned.
posted by pdb at 8:53 PM on February 13 [37 favorites]
These deletions seem slightly more justified but we’re fresh off a thread about mods deleting too much so maybe a reminder comment would have been better.
With some Asks, mods will have to be deleting left and right, like a whack-a-mole game, if this is the new strategy.
posted by Vatnesine at 9:07 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
With some Asks, mods will have to be deleting left and right, like a whack-a-mole game, if this is the new strategy.
posted by Vatnesine at 9:07 PM on February 13 [6 favorites]
AskMe answerers wandering away from the topic or flagrantly ignoring the parameters of the question have always bugged me. I was cheered when I saw mods were starting to take action more aggressively, and it actually encouraged me to start flagging more comments myself. I wonder if others have started doing the same. I try to only flag the most egregious examples but some are truly like, GYOB, y'know?
posted by btfreek at 9:38 PM on February 13 [20 favorites]
posted by btfreek at 9:38 PM on February 13 [20 favorites]
These seem like justified deletions to me. The amount of people who don't bother to check what they're actually being asked is pretty frustrating, I'm glad to see mod actions that might encourage Mefites to actually RTFQ.
posted by fight or flight at 3:01 AM on February 14 [26 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 3:01 AM on February 14 [26 favorites]
Non-answers and answers that ignored existing clarifications have always been deleted. Maybe now the deletions are just more visible due to more mod notes?
That seems like a large change that goes against what many people in MeTa have been asking for
I can't say I have kept up with all the details of moderation discourse but have people really been arguing for non-answers/noise/derails in AskMe to be left up?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:28 AM on February 14 [17 favorites]
That seems like a large change that goes against what many people in MeTa have been asking for
I can't say I have kept up with all the details of moderation discourse but have people really been arguing for non-answers/noise/derails in AskMe to be left up?
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:28 AM on February 14 [17 favorites]
My perception is, as EndsOfInvention said,
"Non-answers and answers that ignored existing clarifications have always been deleted. Maybe now the deletions are just more visible due to more mod notes?"
Or, at least, mods have often deleted them, after attention was brought via Contact form or flags.
lapis, or anyone else who shares lapis's perception of the matter: could you share some examples of past Ask threads that you think were moderated appropriately (regarding answers that do not meet the asker's stated criteria), before the moderation policy change that you are perceiving, so that we can compare? And about when do you think this change happened?
posted by brainwane at 3:55 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
"Non-answers and answers that ignored existing clarifications have always been deleted. Maybe now the deletions are just more visible due to more mod notes?"
Or, at least, mods have often deleted them, after attention was brought via Contact form or flags.
lapis, or anyone else who shares lapis's perception of the matter: could you share some examples of past Ask threads that you think were moderated appropriately (regarding answers that do not meet the asker's stated criteria), before the moderation policy change that you are perceiving, so that we can compare? And about when do you think this change happened?
posted by brainwane at 3:55 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
I think it’s usually sensible to leave a wrong answer if that’s one of the possible answers, but never a non-answer. A wrong answer might help elicit a clarification, etc.
The goal of AskMe is to get the community’s responsive input, and the mods can’t always be responsible for knowing the right answer themselves. So if the question is something like “help me remember this ad from the 70s” then there are going to be a lot of guesses before we get to the right one. If the question is “what’s 2+2?” then wrong answers are all non-responsive.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:02 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
The goal of AskMe is to get the community’s responsive input, and the mods can’t always be responsible for knowing the right answer themselves. So if the question is something like “help me remember this ad from the 70s” then there are going to be a lot of guesses before we get to the right one. If the question is “what’s 2+2?” then wrong answers are all non-responsive.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:02 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
(To be clear, once it’s been clarified that a particular answer is wrong/unhelpful, it’s actually super unresponsive to keep pushing it. There shouldn’t be any more “go to the hospital pharmacy” answers after the Asker reminds folks that the hospital doesn’t have a pharmacy. At that point repetitions should be deleted.)
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:09 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:09 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
Non-answers and answers that ignored existing clarifications have always been deleted
Just confirming. I have had answers or humour attempts deleted going back like 15 years. So this absolutely isn't new and seems more like confirmation bias to me.
posted by chasles at 4:50 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
Just confirming. I have had answers or humour attempts deleted going back like 15 years. So this absolutely isn't new and seems more like confirmation bias to me.
posted by chasles at 4:50 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
The keen frustration of asking a question and then having it "answered" by a sage who leans down from his monolithic tower of condescension and self-regard to gently whisper a stream of infuriating, judgmental bullshit that simultaneously insults the asker and completely fails to grapple with the substance of the question. A deletion? TBH, I wish there were a button to push that would make that person feel actual pain.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:01 AM on February 14 [34 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:01 AM on February 14 [34 favorites]
kittens, do you need a hug?
posted by ashbury at 5:42 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
posted by ashbury at 5:42 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
This was the recentish mod deletion in Ask that made me go huh????
posted by phunniemee at 5:43 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:43 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
Yeah, the definition of "answer" has definitely been narrowing, up and to the point of the "how dare you mention psychology" deletion above. It's weird.
posted by sagc at 5:48 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 5:48 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
How many “the mods are bad and they should feel bad” posts are we going to make?
posted by Melismata at 6:10 AM on February 14 [19 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 6:10 AM on February 14 [19 favorites]
I'm so glad you're an engaged part of MetaTalk, Melismata. Can you please share your specific thoughts about what's working well in your opinion in the current moderation so it can be considered as part of the go-forward guiding principles of the site? There is an open thread here.
posted by phunniemee at 6:13 AM on February 14 [15 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 6:13 AM on February 14 [15 favorites]
I wish there were a button to push that would make that person feel actual pain.
There are a lot of electronics hobbyists on the site, if you wanted to post an AskMe on how to build such a button?
posted by mittens at 6:13 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
There are a lot of electronics hobbyists on the site, if you wanted to post an AskMe on how to build such a button?
posted by mittens at 6:13 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
YES back to AskMe ca 2004. MeFi is back baby. Moar beanplating too please.
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:51 AM on February 14
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:51 AM on February 14
It's not quite dialed in yet, but I'd like to see the quality of answer threads go back up, and that means tighter moderation.
Better answer threads should mean better questions in the long run, too.
posted by michaelh at 7:04 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Better answer threads should mean better questions in the long run, too.
posted by michaelh at 7:04 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Unfortunately many of the most knowledgeable and insightful people who used to be part of a flourishing Ask culture have left the site in the last few years. Being a thoughtful contributor in Ask takes effort, care, and time, and the leadership/staff-led decisions at Metafilter in recent years have only squandered the good work and content creation that the users here have given, for free, for decades.
posted by phunniemee at 7:10 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 7:10 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
This post squeezes so much into a 7 word title and two sentences that I think it might deserve some sort of award.
> Why are "wrong" answers getting deleted now?
A strong start right out of the gate. I particularly like the quotes around the word wrong but the the now is doing all the heavy lifting. It implies a recent change, something to get upset about. A classic opening - lets see where they can take it from here.
> I get annoyed when people answer questions in AskMe that don't meet the asker's stated criteria, but they were not previously deleted this aggressively.
Admitting that the thing they are complaining about is actually helpful is a bold strategy - it helps sow the seeds for a fractious discussion. The last clause in the sentence again presupposes that something has changed, nudging people who might agree with the first part of the sentence to comment approvingly. The goal is to enrage people on both sides of the debate and this was tastefully done.
> That seems like a large change that goes against what many people in MeTa have been asking for, and has been instituted without any discussion.
An appeal to the masses - here we see the final moves of a true master. Again presupposing that a "large" change has occurred, and one that (horror of horrors) occurred without consulting the many very important people in MeTa. A true killing blow. Its one weakness is the triviality of the original complaint - I doubt this thread will manage to crack 100 replies but solid passive aggressive trolling nonetheless.
Imagine if this post had been a neutral question:
> Should AskMe replies that do not answer the question be deleted?
Not even enough to grind the smallest axe. Where would be the fun in that?
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:16 AM on February 14 [30 favorites]
> Why are "wrong" answers getting deleted now?
A strong start right out of the gate. I particularly like the quotes around the word wrong but the the now is doing all the heavy lifting. It implies a recent change, something to get upset about. A classic opening - lets see where they can take it from here.
> I get annoyed when people answer questions in AskMe that don't meet the asker's stated criteria, but they were not previously deleted this aggressively.
Admitting that the thing they are complaining about is actually helpful is a bold strategy - it helps sow the seeds for a fractious discussion. The last clause in the sentence again presupposes that something has changed, nudging people who might agree with the first part of the sentence to comment approvingly. The goal is to enrage people on both sides of the debate and this was tastefully done.
> That seems like a large change that goes against what many people in MeTa have been asking for, and has been instituted without any discussion.
An appeal to the masses - here we see the final moves of a true master. Again presupposing that a "large" change has occurred, and one that (horror of horrors) occurred without consulting the many very important people in MeTa. A true killing blow. Its one weakness is the triviality of the original complaint - I doubt this thread will manage to crack 100 replies but solid passive aggressive trolling nonetheless.
Imagine if this post had been a neutral question:
> Should AskMe replies that do not answer the question be deleted?
Not even enough to grind the smallest axe. Where would be the fun in that?
posted by AndrewStephens at 7:16 AM on February 14 [30 favorites]
There’s an American Chopper Meme to be made here, but I can’t quite dial it in.
posted by Lemkin at 7:32 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
posted by Lemkin at 7:32 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
The example phunniemee linked is a great one. Off topic or jokey answers have generally been deleted, but now it seems like AskMe threads are filled with deletion reasons that discourage anyone to respond unless they can meet the moderators' definition of a correct answer. (Which is not the same as not having useful information, or even the same as not actually being correct. The idea that childhood trauma or experiences wouldn't be at all related to current psychological distress or behaviors is ridiculous and runs completely counter to pretty much all psychological research and theory.)
posted by lapis at 8:08 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
posted by lapis at 8:08 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
There's always been a level at which they did this kind of deletion. It might have waxed and waned and is maybe on an upswing right now, or maybe just mod notes are on an upswing. Of the things linked in this thread, the one I find to be serious overreach is the one about adult psychological models that phunnieme linked. That's way more 'mods deciding the answer is just too wrong to stand' than seems warranted in that situation. The answer sounds like it was answering the question and the mod just didn't think it was right.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:18 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:18 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
"Off topic or jokey answers have generally been deleted, but now it seems like AskMe threads are filled with deletion reasons that discourage anyone to respond unless they can meet the moderators' definition of a correct answer."
The word "Filled" is doing a looooooooot of work in that sentence. I'm in Ask a LOT, and moderation there doesn't feel a lot heavier or more onerous recently than it has over the last few years.
posted by pdb at 8:25 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
The word "Filled" is doing a looooooooot of work in that sentence. I'm in Ask a LOT, and moderation there doesn't feel a lot heavier or more onerous recently than it has over the last few years.
posted by pdb at 8:25 AM on February 14 [13 favorites]
I wonder whether there is a difference if the asker flags for relevance on some answers.
posted by biffa at 8:31 AM on February 14
posted by biffa at 8:31 AM on February 14
I'm in Ask a LOT, and moderation there doesn't feel a lot heavier or more onerous recently
I asked a question back in December that picked up several useless answers trying to diagnose me with a medical condition even after I said that this wasn't useful or relevant to me. None of those comments were proactively deleted, but I also didn't flag anything because I pretty much never flag anything, so whatever. I guess one of the people who was answering had second thoughts about what they said, so reached out to the mods to delete their comment. Fine. This is all fine.
But then a moderator contacted me by memail to ask if I wanted them to delete my own comments that I had made in that thread, too. No? ?? No. Why? Why are we wasting valuable mod hours to try to sanitize threads when no one asked for that, I really don't understand it.
And because I don't think I'm special or unique, I have to assume that if this happened to me then it has happened to other people as well, and I would characterize that set of activities as being 1) heavy, 2) culturally unusual for Metafilter, and 3) a relatively new departure from past practice. As a heavy long-time user of Ask, that's my perspective.
posted by phunniemee at 8:36 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
I asked a question back in December that picked up several useless answers trying to diagnose me with a medical condition even after I said that this wasn't useful or relevant to me. None of those comments were proactively deleted, but I also didn't flag anything because I pretty much never flag anything, so whatever. I guess one of the people who was answering had second thoughts about what they said, so reached out to the mods to delete their comment. Fine. This is all fine.
But then a moderator contacted me by memail to ask if I wanted them to delete my own comments that I had made in that thread, too. No? ?? No. Why? Why are we wasting valuable mod hours to try to sanitize threads when no one asked for that, I really don't understand it.
And because I don't think I'm special or unique, I have to assume that if this happened to me then it has happened to other people as well, and I would characterize that set of activities as being 1) heavy, 2) culturally unusual for Metafilter, and 3) a relatively new departure from past practice. As a heavy long-time user of Ask, that's my perspective.
posted by phunniemee at 8:36 AM on February 14 [9 favorites]
A wrong answer in Ask should be deleted unless it can be refuted in a way that educates the asker in a helpful way. The people asking for fewer deletions are not generally talking about Ask answers that have fundamental errors, but the ones that are bit more loosely answering the question. Of course there will be mod errors, but when a fundamental requirement is missed, the answer should be deleted. I want something between 8 and 12 inches, and you offer me something that is 5 inches long? Delete, please.
posted by soelo at 8:36 AM on February 14
posted by soelo at 8:36 AM on February 14
A link from the thread jacquilynnelinked, which seems reasonable as policy:
posted by lapis at 8:42 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
If the OP says "I've already seen Game of Thrones" and someone's recommendation is basically "Game of Thrones!" I will remove it. If the OP says "No sci fi please" and someone suggests Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, we might leave it. So with me it's usually "it has to be blatant and have no other redeeming quality" that will get an answer nixed. Something that ignores an OP clarification, likewise. This is much different than "I heard you said no sci fi but I'd really like you to reconsider Greg Bear for $_REASONS..." and those are totally okay unless it's turning into an insane pile-on and we're just trying to staunch the bleeding. But we're super comfy sorting out flags in AskMe so feel to either flag them and we can ignore them if we don't agree. or drop us a note asking about it. We get a lot less email than people imagine and most of the time we're happy to clarify specifics.It just seems it's been moving way away from "blatant and no redeeming qualities" toward "not 100% perfect."
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:03 AM on September 6, 2012
posted by lapis at 8:42 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
And lest we forget, whatever the fuck disaster happened in this thread which led to queue abuse and the buttoning of nouvelle-personne, the narrative of which can no longer be followed because the mods have gone back in and memory holed their sins.
posted by phunniemee at 8:46 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:46 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
Eh I'm fine with non-answer deletions.
posted by Diskeater at 8:46 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
posted by Diskeater at 8:46 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Some big things have changed since 2012, sadly. But still, I think Jessamyn’s note there is kind of an ideal.
It’s hard for me to assess the deleted comment from the mirroring psychology AskMe but it’s very plausible that a commenter would be a bit problematic in answering that one. It’s a person asking to be diagnosed by strangers on the internet and that does not have a good track record.
That nouvelle-personne AskMe is so fraught, and there’s so much charity and thoughtfulness in n-p’s replies. I’d definitely be interested in understanding the way that thread developed and went badly and which errors were erased—because it looks fairly okay now. But also chaotic and hard to prune under the standard AskMe guidelines.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:58 AM on February 14
It’s hard for me to assess the deleted comment from the mirroring psychology AskMe but it’s very plausible that a commenter would be a bit problematic in answering that one. It’s a person asking to be diagnosed by strangers on the internet and that does not have a good track record.
That nouvelle-personne AskMe is so fraught, and there’s so much charity and thoughtfulness in n-p’s replies. I’d definitely be interested in understanding the way that thread developed and went badly and which errors were erased—because it looks fairly okay now. But also chaotic and hard to prune under the standard AskMe guidelines.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:58 AM on February 14
maybe just mod notes are on an upswing
Mod notes with all deletions have been explicitly asked for in metatalk by many people and it is really preferrable to silent deletions. The result is that prior to the push for notes, a person reading the thread two hours later would not have been aware of the deletion without the comment, but now they are. It seems like it is happening more often when really it is just being publicized more.
posted by soelo at 9:02 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
Mod notes with all deletions have been explicitly asked for in metatalk by many people and it is really preferrable to silent deletions. The result is that prior to the push for notes, a person reading the thread two hours later would not have been aware of the deletion without the comment, but now they are. It seems like it is happening more often when really it is just being publicized more.
posted by soelo at 9:02 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
I think some Ask-ers are more assertive about flagging irrelevant responses. Unless they're sending the answer off-track, I don't care, but others do.
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 9:03 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
I wish mods would do this more. Recently I asked a question about staying warm in my apartment and I specified in the post that I can't plug anything in. Out of 30 comments, 14 suggested that I plug something in. In what way is that useful to me? I understand that people want to help but Ask would be way better if people considered that if a question has an easy and obvious solution there is probably a good reason the poster isn't doing that.
This really makes me not want to ask questions because I know no matter how specific I am about what I'm looking for, I'm still gonna get a bunch of "Have you heard of space heaters?" type responses. It's really frustrating!
posted by birthday cake at 9:05 AM on February 14 [22 favorites]
This really makes me not want to ask questions because I know no matter how specific I am about what I'm looking for, I'm still gonna get a bunch of "Have you heard of space heaters?" type responses. It's really frustrating!
posted by birthday cake at 9:05 AM on February 14 [22 favorites]
I’d definitely be interested in understanding the way that thread developed and went badly and which errors were erased
Having to rely exclusively on my memory now, which could indeed be faulty, but n-p's comments that you see there and believe to be fine were deleted by the mods and then later reinstated. This was after n-p tried to submit a MeTa, got queued, buttoned, and the mods received significant pushback about their heavy handed actions in an unrelated thread.
posted by phunniemee at 9:12 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Having to rely exclusively on my memory now, which could indeed be faulty, but n-p's comments that you see there and believe to be fine were deleted by the mods and then later reinstated. This was after n-p tried to submit a MeTa, got queued, buttoned, and the mods received significant pushback about their heavy handed actions in an unrelated thread.
posted by phunniemee at 9:12 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
I have tapered off using AskMe more or less because most folks can't wait to offer their two cents that they often don't pay attention to the specifics (f'rex, when I specify I want Canadian recs and even bold that, or bold AND capitalize that requirement but still get folks recommending stuff from the US). AskMe isn't as helpful as it used to be and even I've noticed that in the past few years. You would get really smart people chiming in because the query had something to do with their field, but now it feels like that happens less and less. There is more noise, less signal. It's a pity too because the Green was great for getting good responses.
posted by Kitteh at 9:14 AM on February 14 [11 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:14 AM on February 14 [11 favorites]
Mods have always, and should continue to, delete AskMe answers that are off topic or fail to engage with the terms of the question. There have always been more stringent standards about this on AskMe in order to make the site useful for askers.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:20 AM on February 14 [8 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:20 AM on February 14 [8 favorites]
I would like to see more non-answers deleted.
I would also like to see more non-questions and chatfilter questions deleted.
posted by box at 9:22 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
I would also like to see more non-questions and chatfilter questions deleted.
posted by box at 9:22 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
Everything is subjective and rules only matter sometimes.
posted by phunniemee at 9:23 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 9:23 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
Having to rely exclusively on my memory now, which could indeed be faulty, but n-p's comments that you see there and believe to be fine were deleted by the mods and then later reinstated.
Hmm. So it's not that the mods deleted a bunch of stuff and left bad/unhelpful notes that they later eliminated? Because this comment is way beyond the scope of an ordinary AskMe and would normally need to be deleted--reads like a first draft of the MeTa post, maybe? Possibly this one, too. At that point, lots of people are really taking DD to task and not without reason, but AskMe shouldn't normally be like that. Maybe ever.
It kind of seems like DD's usage of AskMe more generally is the real problem there.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:45 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Hmm. So it's not that the mods deleted a bunch of stuff and left bad/unhelpful notes that they later eliminated? Because this comment is way beyond the scope of an ordinary AskMe and would normally need to be deleted--reads like a first draft of the MeTa post, maybe? Possibly this one, too. At that point, lots of people are really taking DD to task and not without reason, but AskMe shouldn't normally be like that. Maybe ever.
It kind of seems like DD's usage of AskMe more generally is the real problem there.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:45 AM on February 14 [2 favorites]
BTW we've had at least 15 MetaTalk posts since 2008 about the issue of Ask answers that are inappropriate because the answerer disregards part of the poster's question. Generally those making the MetaTalk posts were annoyed at such answers and wanted stricter moderation, or wanted to discuss approaches to prevent them; I haven't gone back to read the comment threads and synthesize an understanding of the consensus of MeFites across them.
posted by brainwane at 9:47 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 9:47 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
anotherpanacea, there are contemporaneous metatalk threads that should be required reading before discussing the particular AskMefi question.
posted by sagc at 10:00 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
posted by sagc at 10:00 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Hey, mod here!
I'd agree with what others said, that mods are leaving notes when removing, things so maybe it seems like more deletions are being done? There's been no change in policy in AskMe, which does have stricter rules about content and that's a good thing, imo.
People wanting to help others is great, welcomed, and encouraged. But sometimes answers do go astray and have to be removed and that's been pretty standard for over a decade.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:00 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
I'd agree with what others said, that mods are leaving notes when removing, things so maybe it seems like more deletions are being done? There's been no change in policy in AskMe, which does have stricter rules about content and that's a good thing, imo.
People wanting to help others is great, welcomed, and encouraged. But sometimes answers do go astray and have to be removed and that's been pretty standard for over a decade.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:00 AM on February 14 [6 favorites]
and, y'know, perhaps MeTa posts weren't exactly viewed as a trustworthy way to get messages to the community or to the mods
posted by sagc at 10:01 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by sagc at 10:01 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Yeah, anotherpanacea, I suggest you take a lot of time to read up on the history before you wade into that one.
posted by bowbeacon at 10:04 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by bowbeacon at 10:04 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, in a thread that called for specific guidelines for suggestions, an answer that was admittedly written by ChatGPT, that I flagged, and that another commenter pointed out the ChatGPT answer was frowned on AND it included mostly things that did not satisfy the question's specifics .... was not deleted.
Since I thought we discouraged ChatGPT in general and especially in Ask, was flagged and called out, really surprised me that the answer stood.
posted by fennario at 10:10 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Since I thought we discouraged ChatGPT in general and especially in Ask, was flagged and called out, really surprised me that the answer stood.
posted by fennario at 10:10 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
fennario, that was my comment and my guess is that leaving it up in that particular case was because it explained to anyone reading it, why the ChatGPT answer was not good. I do think sometimes in Ask, if there is sufficient pushback against a comment, sometimes those stand because the additional info/context was added, to help educate folks who don't know the rules.
So, I do think there are reasonable exceptions, like the one you pointed out. Though, it would also have been fine if one or both were deleted, imo.
posted by Glinn at 10:28 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
So, I do think there are reasonable exceptions, like the one you pointed out. Though, it would also have been fine if one or both were deleted, imo.
posted by Glinn at 10:28 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
I do think sometimes in Ask, if there is sufficient pushback against a comment, sometimes those stand because the additional info/context was added, to help educate folks who don't know the rules.
In those instances, it would be helpful to add a mod-note to explain the non-deletion and request an end to the derail.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:32 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
In those instances, it would be helpful to add a mod-note to explain the non-deletion and request an end to the derail.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:32 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see more aggressive deletions of non-answers, personally.
But I will say that the mod deletion notes about the "stricter content policy" are kind of funny. Ask has been around for 23 years now and has about the same number of monthly active users as the Blue, so I'm not sure if the problem is really that people aren't adjusting to a different policy on Ask as much as people just love to bullshit.
posted by ssg at 10:36 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
But I will say that the mod deletion notes about the "stricter content policy" are kind of funny. Ask has been around for 23 years now and has about the same number of monthly active users as the Blue, so I'm not sure if the problem is really that people aren't adjusting to a different policy on Ask as much as people just love to bullshit.
posted by ssg at 10:36 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I think for chatbot/LLM only answers, they should normally be deleted immediately. My recollection is that answers that only give Google results of very simple context also are. If the LLM answer has other stuff, that's harder, but I'd suggest people to not copy-and-paste LLM content here unless you want to try to poison future models, I guess.
For mod notes in posts, I've noticed some notices about editing/editing comments I think are more disruptive to the comment thread than leaving behind the duplicate/typo. Sure leave notes for anything that might be questioned at all, but if you fix a typo or something similar, no reason to add noise to the thread. If the community wants those things available for inspection, it should either be hidden more in thread or in a centralized place.
posted by skynxnex at 10:36 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
For mod notes in posts, I've noticed some notices about editing/editing comments I think are more disruptive to the comment thread than leaving behind the duplicate/typo. Sure leave notes for anything that might be questioned at all, but if you fix a typo or something similar, no reason to add noise to the thread. If the community wants those things available for inspection, it should either be hidden more in thread or in a centralized place.
posted by skynxnex at 10:36 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
it should either be hidden more in thread or in a centralized place
A moderation log, perhaps.
posted by phunniemee at 10:43 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
A moderation log, perhaps.
posted by phunniemee at 10:43 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
Glinn, that makes sense and the way you worded it succinctly called out what I see as the correct 2 moderation issues - ChatGPT is frowned on, and the answer ignored the specifics of the question. So I can see why a mod could have looked and felt, since it didn't spin off onto a derail or its own thing, the situation adequately handled.
Sometimes community behavior itself can cultivate an environment where moderators can have a lighter touch.
posted by fennario at 10:45 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Sometimes community behavior itself can cultivate an environment where moderators can have a lighter touch.
posted by fennario at 10:45 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Yeah, anotherpanacea, I suggest you take a lot of time to read up on the history before you wade into that one.
I read the BND thread (which is more than 1000 comments to be fair) but up until now I had thought that the only deleted comments were the ones I linked. I still think that might be the case, to be honest? The BND MeTa isn’t as clear as you’re suggesting.
But phunniemee implied that perhaps others were deleted. And I don’t think we can normally have that degree of vitriol in an AskMe thread, even where it’s justified: such threads need to be deleted.
But it also seems like something is missing because the first half dozen comments by n_p are pretty much exactly right, 100% A+ answers. N_p even calls out the dynamic that everyone else is missing, that DD is Deaf, and so a lot of urgent communication is hard or impossible, while also giving a spot on analysis of the situation to DD that it seemed like he didn’t understand. Like basically n_p already Best Answered the thread four or five times before anything bad went down—except other commenters failing to pick up the point and continuing to give wrong answers. Then DD agrees with n_p! Later he says he won’t file a police report. So to go from “I gave good advice and was listened to” to what follows in those last two comments, something must have happened that’s not in the thread.
I don’t have strong feelings about a moderation log, usually—seems like a good idea but probably not always needed—but for a thread like that one it’s absolutely necessary. We need a simple judgment-free explanation of what happened when.
But if the idea is that n_p left over a deletion and now AskMe shouldn’t have deletions, that’s clearly a hasty generalization. AskMe is (or at least was) the crown jewel of the site precisely because of the culture that deletions created. The hospital still doesn’t have a patient-facing pharmacy!
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:15 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
I read the BND thread (which is more than 1000 comments to be fair) but up until now I had thought that the only deleted comments were the ones I linked. I still think that might be the case, to be honest? The BND MeTa isn’t as clear as you’re suggesting.
But phunniemee implied that perhaps others were deleted. And I don’t think we can normally have that degree of vitriol in an AskMe thread, even where it’s justified: such threads need to be deleted.
But it also seems like something is missing because the first half dozen comments by n_p are pretty much exactly right, 100% A+ answers. N_p even calls out the dynamic that everyone else is missing, that DD is Deaf, and so a lot of urgent communication is hard or impossible, while also giving a spot on analysis of the situation to DD that it seemed like he didn’t understand. Like basically n_p already Best Answered the thread four or five times before anything bad went down—except other commenters failing to pick up the point and continuing to give wrong answers. Then DD agrees with n_p! Later he says he won’t file a police report. So to go from “I gave good advice and was listened to” to what follows in those last two comments, something must have happened that’s not in the thread.
I don’t have strong feelings about a moderation log, usually—seems like a good idea but probably not always needed—but for a thread like that one it’s absolutely necessary. We need a simple judgment-free explanation of what happened when.
But if the idea is that n_p left over a deletion and now AskMe shouldn’t have deletions, that’s clearly a hasty generalization. AskMe is (or at least was) the crown jewel of the site precisely because of the culture that deletions created. The hospital still doesn’t have a patient-facing pharmacy!
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:15 AM on February 14 [3 favorites]
But if the idea is that n_p left over a deletion and now AskMe shouldn’t have deletions, that’s clearly a hasty generalization. AskMe is (or at least was) the crown jewel of the site precisely because of the culture that deletions created.
I have absolutely no opinion on this, really, and don't particularly care either way. I'm just suggesting that the n_p situatioin was way more nuanced than
"Because this comment is way beyond the scope of an ordinary AskMe and would normally need to be deleted--reads like a first draft of the MeTa post, maybe? Possibly this one, too. At that point, lots of people are really taking DD to task and not without reason, but AskMe shouldn't normally be like that. Maybe ever."
It's not even close to that simple.
But as for deleting answers about picking drugs up at a non-existent hospital pharmacy, I don't really care either way and I'm not going to get involved in that battle.
posted by bowbeacon at 11:54 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
I have absolutely no opinion on this, really, and don't particularly care either way. I'm just suggesting that the n_p situatioin was way more nuanced than
"Because this comment is way beyond the scope of an ordinary AskMe and would normally need to be deleted--reads like a first draft of the MeTa post, maybe? Possibly this one, too. At that point, lots of people are really taking DD to task and not without reason, but AskMe shouldn't normally be like that. Maybe ever."
It's not even close to that simple.
But as for deleting answers about picking drugs up at a non-existent hospital pharmacy, I don't really care either way and I'm not going to get involved in that battle.
posted by bowbeacon at 11:54 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
I'd say one of the key issues with the thread that caused n_p to leave is that their answers that got deleted (even if reinstated) were long and thoughtful. The deletions that have bothered me the most, whether my own or somebody else's, are when a long comment that is generally fine, that took a fair bit of time to compose, get's deleted on a small technicality or a fairly narrow interpretation of the rules by a mod - often just because of one short phrasing in a long comment.
Because, while I'm sure there are exceptions, if someone takes the time to compose a long response, it's because on some level they care about what they are writing and want to be helpful. So then having that deleted, especially for a somewhat arbitrary decision on where the line of "relevance" is drawn, stings – and you get people leaving the site. I really wish the mods would in cases like this offer people a "edit your comment or have it deleted" option.
posted by coffeecat at 12:06 PM on February 14 [9 favorites]
Because, while I'm sure there are exceptions, if someone takes the time to compose a long response, it's because on some level they care about what they are writing and want to be helpful. So then having that deleted, especially for a somewhat arbitrary decision on where the line of "relevance" is drawn, stings – and you get people leaving the site. I really wish the mods would in cases like this offer people a "edit your comment or have it deleted" option.
posted by coffeecat at 12:06 PM on February 14 [9 favorites]
Would love to see direct relay of LLM output explicitly disallowed in Ask, if it's not already. If you use these tools as a supplement to your overall process of research and investigation in life, that's not really my business, but "Here's what ChatGPT had to say" is like responding "My dream last night was actually about this topic, here's what I learned."
posted by dusty potato at 12:20 PM on February 14 [14 favorites]
posted by dusty potato at 12:20 PM on February 14 [14 favorites]
But as for deleting answers about picking drugs up at a non-existent hospital pharmacy, I don't really care either way and I'm not going to get involved in that battle.
I'll just note that I was the person who left that response, having read the AskMe but totally missing that fact in the question, and I'm perfectly fine with my response being deleted, and am also perfectly fine with stronger deleting in AskMe in general.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 12:32 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
I'll just note that I was the person who left that response, having read the AskMe but totally missing that fact in the question, and I'm perfectly fine with my response being deleted, and am also perfectly fine with stronger deleting in AskMe in general.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 12:32 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
I'm not diving into litigating past threads but in general, non-answer answers in AskMe should go. And to the extent that the difference between now and previous recent times is mods being clearer about when they're deleting, that's fine.
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:12 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
posted by gentlyepigrams at 1:12 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
More non-answer deletions, please.
(It'll make me feel like less of a dick when I flag them, tbh)
posted by yellowcandy at 1:42 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
(It'll make me feel like less of a dick when I flag them, tbh)
posted by yellowcandy at 1:42 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Two comments removed at poster's request because they commented in the wrong post.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:56 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:56 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I'm confused by the "wrong answer" wording.
It seems like it could describe three things that happen on ask mefi -
(a) factually incorrect answers
(b) answers that aren't applicable because the person missed or ignored part of question
(c) answers that address faulty premises
When I see something described as a "wrong answer," I think you're talking about (a), but it seems like we're mostly talking about (b) and (c)? I think all three need to be considered differently.
just to put out where I'm coming from, for the last decade or so I've moderated an academic forum for my research specialty where we have a policy of deleting factually incorrect answers.
(a) is pretty much impossible to do reliably even for fields that you're expert in, so I can't imagine that the moderators here are qualified to make that judgement call for most questions. Are the moderators attempting to do this at all?
removing answers for reason (b) has been a longstanding practice that seems relatively popular, and i happen to agree with it.
i think it's important to allow (c), though, even if that sometimes put you outside of what the question asker is looking for. imagine someone asking "please don't tell me my lazy kid has depression, just tell me which boot camp will scare them straight" and then disallowing people from addressing the premises because it's not what the poster is asking for. sometimes answering a question well and honestly means addressing its premises, even if the person asking doesn't want you to.
i picked an easy example for illustration, but the problem is that sometimes (b) and (c) are hard to tell apart unless you're familiar with the topic.
it can really help, though, if you are aware of the problem and are thinking about it before removing anything that "doesn't address the question."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:16 PM on February 14 [10 favorites]
It seems like it could describe three things that happen on ask mefi -
(a) factually incorrect answers
(b) answers that aren't applicable because the person missed or ignored part of question
(c) answers that address faulty premises
When I see something described as a "wrong answer," I think you're talking about (a), but it seems like we're mostly talking about (b) and (c)? I think all three need to be considered differently.
just to put out where I'm coming from, for the last decade or so I've moderated an academic forum for my research specialty where we have a policy of deleting factually incorrect answers.
(a) is pretty much impossible to do reliably even for fields that you're expert in, so I can't imagine that the moderators here are qualified to make that judgement call for most questions. Are the moderators attempting to do this at all?
removing answers for reason (b) has been a longstanding practice that seems relatively popular, and i happen to agree with it.
i think it's important to allow (c), though, even if that sometimes put you outside of what the question asker is looking for. imagine someone asking "please don't tell me my lazy kid has depression, just tell me which boot camp will scare them straight" and then disallowing people from addressing the premises because it's not what the poster is asking for. sometimes answering a question well and honestly means addressing its premises, even if the person asking doesn't want you to.
i picked an easy example for illustration, but the problem is that sometimes (b) and (c) are hard to tell apart unless you're familiar with the topic.
it can really help, though, if you are aware of the problem and are thinking about it before removing anything that "doesn't address the question."
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:16 PM on February 14 [10 favorites]
(a) is pretty much impossible to do reliably even for fields that you're expert in, so I can't imagine that the moderators here are qualified to make that judgement call for most questions. Are the moderators attempting to do this at all?
Yes. The link phunnimee provided is an example.
There's also stuff like this where things were deleted for not being specific enough when the question was pretty broad. "Help me find new things!" / "Have you checked a site designed to help you find new things?" seems like a totally valid interaction.
That's what I'm meaning when I say that the moderators seem to be judging the correctness of an answer, or whether it's a good answer, rather than whether it's breaking guidelines by being off-topic or not an answer.
Maybe people are getting all police-y in their own questions and flagging stuff. And I agree that answers seem way less useful than they did 10 or 20 years ago, but that seems due to the fact that we've lost so many users, not because not enough answers are deleted. I think all the deletions have a chilling effect on answering that's worth weighing in thinking about how to moderate threads.
posted by lapis at 6:51 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Yes. The link phunnimee provided is an example.
There's also stuff like this where things were deleted for not being specific enough when the question was pretty broad. "Help me find new things!" / "Have you checked a site designed to help you find new things?" seems like a totally valid interaction.
That's what I'm meaning when I say that the moderators seem to be judging the correctness of an answer, or whether it's a good answer, rather than whether it's breaking guidelines by being off-topic or not an answer.
Maybe people are getting all police-y in their own questions and flagging stuff. And I agree that answers seem way less useful than they did 10 or 20 years ago, but that seems due to the fact that we've lost so many users, not because not enough answers are deleted. I think all the deletions have a chilling effect on answering that's worth weighing in thinking about how to moderate threads.
posted by lapis at 6:51 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Yeah, the "best not to use adult psychological models" deletion was extremely bizarre and (imo) untoward, and I think expecting mods to evaluate answers at this level of engagement only opens the door to more of the same.
posted by dusty potato at 7:19 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
posted by dusty potato at 7:19 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
The link phunnimee provided is an example.
Tbh, given that the comment it was responding to has been removed, it was kind of hard for me to tell whether it was just a bad deletion, or a good deletion with a poorly worded mod note (as has happened sometimes)....
The removal of the pinterest recommendations is on the borderline of what I would consider a good deletion. That's more (b) than (a), though I'll admit I'm coming from the perspective that recommending pinterest is about as good and specific a recommendation "have you tried a google image search" these days, with the way it's gone downhill.
But I'm not really here to argue about specific cases. If there's a larger pattern, then this is something I'll file under "hopeless" given the state of moderation and moderation leadership. There will be no addressing it until there are structural changes with the site.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:51 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
Tbh, given that the comment it was responding to has been removed, it was kind of hard for me to tell whether it was just a bad deletion, or a good deletion with a poorly worded mod note (as has happened sometimes)....
The removal of the pinterest recommendations is on the borderline of what I would consider a good deletion. That's more (b) than (a), though I'll admit I'm coming from the perspective that recommending pinterest is about as good and specific a recommendation "have you tried a google image search" these days, with the way it's gone downhill.
But I'm not really here to argue about specific cases. If there's a larger pattern, then this is something I'll file under "hopeless" given the state of moderation and moderation leadership. There will be no addressing it until there are structural changes with the site.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 8:51 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
A strong start right out of the gate. I particularly like the quotes around the word wrong but the the now is doing all the heavy lifting. It implies a recent change, something to get upset about. A classic opening - lets see where they can take it from here.
"So, 'now.' Ooh, what a wonderful first word, right in the beginning of the play. 'Now.' Not in the past, not a history play. 'Now.' So what's gonna happen now? 'Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York.'"
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 10:33 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
"So, 'now.' Ooh, what a wonderful first word, right in the beginning of the play. 'Now.' Not in the past, not a history play. 'Now.' So what's gonna happen now? 'Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York.'"
posted by kirkaracha (staff) at 10:33 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Would love to see direct relay of LLM output explicitly disallowed in Ask, if it's not already.
It should be explicitly disallowed everywhere on MeFi, not just in Ask! I flag literally every instance of it i see.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:43 PM on February 14 [9 favorites]
It should be explicitly disallowed everywhere on MeFi, not just in Ask! I flag literally every instance of it i see.
posted by adrienneleigh at 11:43 PM on February 14 [9 favorites]
Putting aside chatfilter and relationship questiins, I see two types of questions. One is the more general question, "How do I change the air filter on my Ford F150?" There are no qualifications or limitations. The answers are relevant to the asker, but also to someone researching it later. Part of submitting a question is to see if it has been asked before and if that previous question is still relevant. The other type of question is the one with qualications, specifics, and limitations. "I want to change the air filter on my truck but I do not have access to a lift or any specific tools. I also want to use only oem parts and spend less than $22.55 on it. How do I do it?". This type of question will often elicit answers that are relevant to the first, general question, but not to the question at hand.
Then, there are answers that fit the question but are outside of community norms." How do I get rid of this pesky raccoon that keeps going through my garbage?" One answer might be, "Call animal control." However, another answer that answers the question is "Take out your trusty. 22 rifle and shoot the darn thing."
I think that jessamyn's explanation of the practice from 10+ years ago is the practice that should continue to this day. Moderation is an art, not a science. Blanket, one size fits all rules don't work. Of course there are certain hard and fast items that are unacceptable. Ad hom8nen attacks, etc. I happen to think that in the limitations type of questions, the deletion policy should be strict. I think more leeway should be given in the general questiins that have no qualifications. I think the answers that fall outside community norms like the get a gun example should be given some leeway.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:37 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
Then, there are answers that fit the question but are outside of community norms." How do I get rid of this pesky raccoon that keeps going through my garbage?" One answer might be, "Call animal control." However, another answer that answers the question is "Take out your trusty. 22 rifle and shoot the darn thing."
I think that jessamyn's explanation of the practice from 10+ years ago is the practice that should continue to this day. Moderation is an art, not a science. Blanket, one size fits all rules don't work. Of course there are certain hard and fast items that are unacceptable. Ad hom8nen attacks, etc. I happen to think that in the limitations type of questions, the deletion policy should be strict. I think more leeway should be given in the general questiins that have no qualifications. I think the answers that fall outside community norms like the get a gun example should be given some leeway.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 12:37 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I’ve been thinking about the “adult psychology” case. Again, it would help to have the text of the comment to consider.
But it strikes me that the comment could have been linking to kind of TikTok version of “healthy boundaries.” (That’s basically what taz says.)
While I know a lot of people with something to learn from that kind of advice, it’s true (as taz says!) that it’s particularly unhelpful/unresponsive to the questioner. The OP was describing an unusual behavior that’s persisted since childhood and basically looking for insight into why they might be so unusual. “You need to learn to set boundaries” is weirdly not an answer: like telling someone with dyslexia they need to try harder, or someone with depression that they need to cheer up.
Anyway, I’d be interested to see the comment, because this is just speculation in the spirit of charity: what would a reasonable deletion be in that thread? (There are issues with constantly resurfacing old deleted comments, it does feed trolls in some situations, but in a few cases I think it’s needed.)
posted by anotherpanacea at 3:01 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
But it strikes me that the comment could have been linking to kind of TikTok version of “healthy boundaries.” (That’s basically what taz says.)
While I know a lot of people with something to learn from that kind of advice, it’s true (as taz says!) that it’s particularly unhelpful/unresponsive to the questioner. The OP was describing an unusual behavior that’s persisted since childhood and basically looking for insight into why they might be so unusual. “You need to learn to set boundaries” is weirdly not an answer: like telling someone with dyslexia they need to try harder, or someone with depression that they need to cheer up.
Anyway, I’d be interested to see the comment, because this is just speculation in the spirit of charity: what would a reasonable deletion be in that thread? (There are issues with constantly resurfacing old deleted comments, it does feed trolls in some situations, but in a few cases I think it’s needed.)
posted by anotherpanacea at 3:01 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Even if it was a tiktok link to pop-psychology, the question is about merging with other people in ways that causes distress, and asks if that has a name or anything they can read about it. Pointing out that it's a boundary issue is absolutely answering the question and is, as a bonus, correct.
Maybe the answer did not explain enough for the moderators to understand that it was not only helpful but also correct, but that's exactly why moderators shouldn't be deleting answers just because they don't understand them.
posted by lapis at 7:33 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
Maybe the answer did not explain enough for the moderators to understand that it was not only helpful but also correct, but that's exactly why moderators shouldn't be deleting answers just because they don't understand them.
posted by lapis at 7:33 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
but that's exactly why moderators shouldn't be deleting answers just because they don't understand them.
The alternative to that is that no answer is ever deleted because maybe the people who flagged it and the moderators just don't understand it, and that doesn't seem like a great policy.
posted by kbanas at 7:37 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
The alternative to that is that no answer is ever deleted because maybe the people who flagged it and the moderators just don't understand it, and that doesn't seem like a great policy.
posted by kbanas at 7:37 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
It's not a binary, no. The moderators can err on the side of not deleting edge cases while still deleting obvious things.
posted by lapis at 7:40 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
posted by lapis at 7:40 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
I think for chatbot/LLM only answers, they should normally be deleted immediately. My recollection is that answers that only give Google results of very simple context also are. If the LLM answer has other stuff, that's harder, but I'd suggest people to not copy-and-paste LLM content here unless you want to try to poison future models, I guess.
Currently the FAQ about chatGPT and its cousins says that such answers are ok as long as the OP is clear that it's a chatGPT, so that's why you'all still see a some around. Folks should feel free to submit a MeTa for the community to discuss it.
For mod notes in posts, I've noticed some notices about editing/editing comments I think are more disruptive to the comment thread than leaving behind the duplicate/typo
I hear ya and it does seem odd sometimes even as I'm doing the removal, but people wanted notes for every deletion and edit, so better to leave the notes than not.
Overall, it's totally possible for mods to miss some nuance or back story when deleting a comment. Feel free to email us or flag the deletion note with an explanation of the nuance or even why you think it's wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:32 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Currently the FAQ about chatGPT and its cousins says that such answers are ok as long as the OP is clear that it's a chatGPT, so that's why you'all still see a some around. Folks should feel free to submit a MeTa for the community to discuss it.
For mod notes in posts, I've noticed some notices about editing/editing comments I think are more disruptive to the comment thread than leaving behind the duplicate/typo
I hear ya and it does seem odd sometimes even as I'm doing the removal, but people wanted notes for every deletion and edit, so better to leave the notes than not.
Overall, it's totally possible for mods to miss some nuance or back story when deleting a comment. Feel free to email us or flag the deletion note with an explanation of the nuance or even why you think it's wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:32 AM on February 15 [2 favorites]
The moderators can err on the side of not deleting edge cases while still deleting obvious things.
I think the Asker plays a key role here. If they choose to police the answers and flag things as irrelevant, that should weigh in favor of deletions. They’re paying the closest attention and have the most to gain from getting relevant answers.
If there’s a thread where that’s prone to abuse—like dubious_dude’s uber driver thread—that’s an indication that it’s not a good AskMe post.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:06 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
I think the Asker plays a key role here. If they choose to police the answers and flag things as irrelevant, that should weigh in favor of deletions. They’re paying the closest attention and have the most to gain from getting relevant answers.
If there’s a thread where that’s prone to abuse—like dubious_dude’s uber driver thread—that’s an indication that it’s not a good AskMe post.
posted by anotherpanacea at 9:06 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
I’ve been much more wary of asks since I went into one a couple months ago that went weird. The question was, MOL, How do I deal with this dog? Should I try X? Y? Z? Maybe I should just rehome? And I said, Yeah, it would be totally ok to rehome if you feel like this dog behavior is outside what you can manage. My answer was deleted because I didn’t support X, Y, or Z, despite OP suggesting that rehome was a valid last option. So, it’s not just users not reading the whole ask.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:35 AM on February 15 [8 favorites]
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:35 AM on February 15 [8 favorites]
I think what's missing from a lot of these discussions about deletions is a clear description of the power imbalance between the lowly commenter and the mod who chooses whether or not to delete the comment. That's part of why people are so angry. I feel kind of stupid writing comments knowing that there are innumerable "reasons" that my comment could be erased at any time, by people who seem to delete a LOT of comments. And there is recourse available to me, I could email the mods or fill out a contact form or start a metatalk or vent in the Secret Other Community or start my own messageboard, or whatever, but realistically i'm not going to fight for every comment I write, i'm just going to feel sad and kind of stupid if something I write gets deleted. Other personality types will feel enraged, and they will button. It's hard to have good communication with others with this kind of constraint. There's always a power imbalance going on in human interactions, and it's something that needs to be acknowledged.
I recognize the need for mods and deletions but each cut hurts, even when it is necessary.
posted by Vatnesine at 10:05 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I recognize the need for mods and deletions but each cut hurts, even when it is necessary.
posted by Vatnesine at 10:05 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I’ve been much more wary of asks since I went into one a couple months ago that went weird.
Feel free to email us or mention the thread here and I can take another look.
And lest we forget, whatever the fuck disaster happened in this thread which led to queue abuse and the buttoning of nouvelle-personne,
Just a note that the n_p situation has come up in various other threads, but there's never been a MeTa about it, so folks are welcome to submit one if clarifications or talking it out are wanted
The moderators can err on the side of not deleting edge cases while still deleting obvious things.
We do! That's when we leave notes for each other.
but realistically i'm not going to fight for every comment I write, i'm just going to feel sad and kind of stupid if something I write gets deleted.
That's understandable, so I've been aiming to note that effort and desire to help when removing stuff from AskMe, in order to explain the stricter rules of that subsite. AskMe runs on the desire to help others and that should obviously be encouraged even as the mods to keep things generally on track.
Thank you and everyone else who do take the time to answer.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:28 AM on February 15
Feel free to email us or mention the thread here and I can take another look.
And lest we forget, whatever the fuck disaster happened in this thread which led to queue abuse and the buttoning of nouvelle-personne,
Just a note that the n_p situation has come up in various other threads, but there's never been a MeTa about it, so folks are welcome to submit one if clarifications or talking it out are wanted
The moderators can err on the side of not deleting edge cases while still deleting obvious things.
We do! That's when we leave notes for each other.
but realistically i'm not going to fight for every comment I write, i'm just going to feel sad and kind of stupid if something I write gets deleted.
That's understandable, so I've been aiming to note that effort and desire to help when removing stuff from AskMe, in order to explain the stricter rules of that subsite. AskMe runs on the desire to help others and that should obviously be encouraged even as the mods to keep things generally on track.
Thank you and everyone else who do take the time to answer.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 10:28 AM on February 15
I think what's missing from a lot of these discussions about deletions is a clear description of the power imbalance between the lowly commenter and the mod who chooses whether or not to delete the comment. That's part of why people are so angry. I feel kind of stupid writing comments knowing that there are innumerable "reasons" that my comment could be erased at any time, by people who seem to delete a LOT of comments.
I'm sure there are a lot of comments where people put effort into them, but A LOT of the AskMe deletions I've seen historically and especially lately with more mod notes are not those - they're drive-by jokes or irrelevant comments with people just farting out the first thing that comes into their head, relevant or not, without reading the [more inside] part of the question or whatever. For instance, one recently was just an emoji, another was a bunch of joke names when a person was asking for a specific identity or role. If that kind of deletion makes people pause before posting a comment, the deletions are doing their job appropriately.
I do appreciate the enhanced mod notes that have been appearing, trying to educate people on the higher standards for an AskMe response.
posted by LionIndex at 10:36 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I'm sure there are a lot of comments where people put effort into them, but A LOT of the AskMe deletions I've seen historically and especially lately with more mod notes are not those - they're drive-by jokes or irrelevant comments with people just farting out the first thing that comes into their head, relevant or not, without reading the [more inside] part of the question or whatever. For instance, one recently was just an emoji, another was a bunch of joke names when a person was asking for a specific identity or role. If that kind of deletion makes people pause before posting a comment, the deletions are doing their job appropriately.
I do appreciate the enhanced mod notes that have been appearing, trying to educate people on the higher standards for an AskMe response.
posted by LionIndex at 10:36 AM on February 15 [3 favorites]
Just a note that the n_p situation has come up in various other threads, but there's never been a MeTa about it
Is this a fucking joke to you? The only nouvelle-personne MeTa that mattered died in the queue because moderators said no. Please be serious. Stop telling people to put in MeTas when y'all choked the only one that mattered.
posted by phunniemee at 11:06 AM on February 15 [9 favorites]
Is this a fucking joke to you? The only nouvelle-personne MeTa that mattered died in the queue because moderators said no. Please be serious. Stop telling people to put in MeTas when y'all choked the only one that mattered.
posted by phunniemee at 11:06 AM on February 15 [9 favorites]
I am preparing a MeTa post on that.
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:13 AM on February 15
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:13 AM on February 15
Please be serious. Stop telling people to put in MeTas when y'all choked the only one that mattered.
If members do have an issue with something was handled, MeTa is and has been a recourse for that and it will continued to be suggested for it. Folks can choose to see that as some sort of joke, but that's their personal choice to make.
I am preparing a MeTa post on that
Thank you!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 11:19 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
If members do have an issue with something was handled, MeTa is and has been a recourse for that and it will continued to be suggested for it. Folks can choose to see that as some sort of joke, but that's their personal choice to make.
I am preparing a MeTa post on that
Thank you!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 11:19 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
The moderators can err on the side of not deleting edge cases while still deleting obvious things.
We do! That's when we leave notes for each other.
This response is a great example of what I find extremely frustrating about moderation interaction on these threads. I am specifically asking for a shift in current actions. Saying "We're already doing that" feels extremely dismissive and like you've missed my entire point. Disagreeing with me is different and fine; responding to say you're already doing the thing I'm saying you need to recalibrate is frustrating.
To respond to the content of your reply: I'm specifically asking you to recalibrate what you consider an "edge case," because I think the moderators have been overzealous about deciding what's "not answering the question" lately. Or maybe you've always been and the mod notes are highlighting it, in which case, great! The notes are serving the wonderful purpose of making moderation more visible so that users can discuss it in a more nuanced way. So I am suggesting the deletion decisions need more nuance.
posted by lapis at 11:20 AM on February 15 [5 favorites]
We do! That's when we leave notes for each other.
This response is a great example of what I find extremely frustrating about moderation interaction on these threads. I am specifically asking for a shift in current actions. Saying "We're already doing that" feels extremely dismissive and like you've missed my entire point. Disagreeing with me is different and fine; responding to say you're already doing the thing I'm saying you need to recalibrate is frustrating.
To respond to the content of your reply: I'm specifically asking you to recalibrate what you consider an "edge case," because I think the moderators have been overzealous about deciding what's "not answering the question" lately. Or maybe you've always been and the mod notes are highlighting it, in which case, great! The notes are serving the wonderful purpose of making moderation more visible so that users can discuss it in a more nuanced way. So I am suggesting the deletion decisions need more nuance.
posted by lapis at 11:20 AM on February 15 [5 favorites]
Submitted. I’d be grateful if you held it until you felt ready to participate fully in the conversation, Brandon—it’s obviously the weekend!
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:48 AM on February 15
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:48 AM on February 15
And it’s live! (Without the paragraph breaks—I’m clearly rusty at html!)
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:52 AM on February 15
posted by anotherpanacea at 11:52 AM on February 15
Christ on a pogo stick. I hope any Americans here are interspersing their Meta-angst with calls to their congressperson.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:29 PM on February 15 [4 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:29 PM on February 15 [4 favorites]
I've also had the impression that jokey answers are being removed when previously, they were left in. (I can't really judge whether it's just because of the mod notes highlighting the occurrences; all I know is that I noticed it independently of this thread.)
I'm not sure how I feel about these deletions. It's good for those who are using AskMe as a reference (including the Asker), but it makes the process feel less like a conversation, which makes the site feel less like a community. In an in-person conversation, there would be room for one (maybe two) jokes, and then we'd probably look at the person who'd asked a question (or maybe they'd speak up) and we'd get back to the actual question.
Would this work as a moderation guideline? As long as the number of jokes is limited, could we let them stand and add a mod note "Appreciate the jokes, now let's get back to the actual question"?
(I personally wouldn't mind the Asker doing this themselves, if the mods aren't available yet, but maybe that would escalate.)
posted by demi-octopus at 12:51 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure how I feel about these deletions. It's good for those who are using AskMe as a reference (including the Asker), but it makes the process feel less like a conversation, which makes the site feel less like a community. In an in-person conversation, there would be room for one (maybe two) jokes, and then we'd probably look at the person who'd asked a question (or maybe they'd speak up) and we'd get back to the actual question.
Would this work as a moderation guideline? As long as the number of jokes is limited, could we let them stand and add a mod note "Appreciate the jokes, now let's get back to the actual question"?
(I personally wouldn't mind the Asker doing this themselves, if the mods aren't available yet, but maybe that would escalate.)
posted by demi-octopus at 12:51 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
Have people forgotten the time-honoured art of prepending your jokey reply with a half plausible answer so it doesn't get deleted?
posted by lucidium at 1:28 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 1:28 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Have people forgotten the time-honoured art of prepending your jokey reply with a half plausible answer so it doesn't get deleted?
Yeah, that would be my suggestion. My guess would be that joke answers being allowed to stand is more from a lack of mod presence or availability than a change in policy. I don't think jokes are strictly forbidden, but you do have to at least attempt to answer the question.
posted by LionIndex at 1:34 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that would be my suggestion. My guess would be that joke answers being allowed to stand is more from a lack of mod presence or availability than a change in policy. I don't think jokes are strictly forbidden, but you do have to at least attempt to answer the question.
posted by LionIndex at 1:34 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
Christ on a pogo stick. I hope any Americans here are interspersing their Meta-angst with calls to their congressperson.
I doubt mine knows about Metafilter. And what would they do about AskMe comments being deleted anyway?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:39 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I doubt mine knows about Metafilter. And what would they do about AskMe comments being deleted anyway?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:39 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I doubt mine knows about Metafilter. And what would they do about AskMe comments being deleted anyway?
Fair point.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:12 AM on February 16
Fair point.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:12 AM on February 16
Answers that don't address the question should be deleted. There is no such thing as a wrong answer, unless in response to a mathematical question or something, I guess. If there is any doubt as to whether the answer doesn't address the question or is just plain wrong, the answer should stay - if it's actually wrong, someone will be along pretty quickly to point that out and explain why.
I've definitely observed some movement back-and-forth in AskMe over the years, with the original tough approach softening more recently, as well as a lowering of the bar in terms of what an acceptable question is. I haven't noticed an increase in deletions and I read most of the questions, although I have noticed an increase in mod notes (which is good). The adult vs kid psychology one people keep pointing out seems very much an edge case that's hard to comment on without having seen the actual comment, but without the comment, it does seem a bit weird.
Generally, I'm all in favour of protecting AskMe from dilution of quality advice with bad advice and the bar for deletion should be much lower than elsewhere.
posted by dg at 3:05 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I've definitely observed some movement back-and-forth in AskMe over the years, with the original tough approach softening more recently, as well as a lowering of the bar in terms of what an acceptable question is. I haven't noticed an increase in deletions and I read most of the questions, although I have noticed an increase in mod notes (which is good). The adult vs kid psychology one people keep pointing out seems very much an edge case that's hard to comment on without having seen the actual comment, but without the comment, it does seem a bit weird.
Generally, I'm all in favour of protecting AskMe from dilution of quality advice with bad advice and the bar for deletion should be much lower than elsewhere.
posted by dg at 3:05 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I think we need to be careful not to conflate "answers that don't address the question" with "bad advice." Someone can be incorrect or give bad advice but still be answering the question in good faith and following the guidelines, and I don't think those answers should be deleted.
posted by lapis at 3:18 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
posted by lapis at 3:18 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
Here's a lovely example of a question where the question goes, "I have a problem, this is how I'm thinking of solving it with solution A, how would I go about doing that?" And then the best answer is "have you tried solution B?"
posted by freethefeet at 3:24 PM on February 16 [4 favorites]
posted by freethefeet at 3:24 PM on February 16 [4 favorites]
Deleting an incorrect answer is not a punishment.
Why wouldn't you delete an incorrect answer? I can answer in good faith that Betty White played Blanche in the Golden Girls. It would be incorrect and should be deleted. Most questions are not quite so clear, but when someone gives a specific range of sizes, or asks who played a certain role, it is pretty clear when the answer is wrong.
posted by soelo at 4:50 PM on February 16
Why wouldn't you delete an incorrect answer? I can answer in good faith that Betty White played Blanche in the Golden Girls. It would be incorrect and should be deleted. Most questions are not quite so clear, but when someone gives a specific range of sizes, or asks who played a certain role, it is pretty clear when the answer is wrong.
posted by soelo at 4:50 PM on February 16
It's not at all reasonable to expect moderators to be able to identify when an answer is wrong. That would require them to hold an encyclopedic knowledge of, well, everything. In which case, we wouldn't need AskMe at all and could replace it with AskMod. People are allowed to be wrong, provided they are engaging in good faith and no doubt someone will tell them they're wrong in pretty short order.
posted by dg at 5:15 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
posted by dg at 5:15 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
Why wouldn't you delete an incorrect answer?
posted by lapis at 5:18 PM on February 16 [7 favorites]
posted by lapis at 5:18 PM on February 16 [7 favorites]
It's not at all reasonable to expect moderators to be able to identify when an answer is wrong.
I asked for a cord between 8 and 12 inches and the first two answers were 5 inch cords. That is not addressing the question. That is an incorrect answer. Those answers should be deleted.
posted by soelo at 5:57 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
I asked for a cord between 8 and 12 inches and the first two answers were 5 inch cords. That is not addressing the question. That is an incorrect answer. Those answers should be deleted.
posted by soelo at 5:57 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Well, if you take the two answers together, they're correct. Next, you need to ask about the correct knot to join them together - one that takes up less than two inches of cord.
posted by dg at 6:00 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
posted by dg at 6:00 PM on February 16 [2 favorites]
Phone charging cords don't work that way.
posted by soelo at 6:04 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 6:04 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Well not with that attitude.
posted by phunniemee at 6:04 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 6:04 PM on February 16 [6 favorites]
You didn't say it had to work.
posted by dg at 6:17 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
posted by dg at 6:17 PM on February 16 [5 favorites]
I asked for a cord between 8 and 12 inches and the first two answers were 5 inch cords. That is not addressing the question. That is an incorrect answer.
If you want to say they should be deleted for not addressing the question, I'm ok with that within reason (again, I think the moderators are interpreting "doesn't address the question" too broadly in less cut-and-dried questions). I don't think it should be deleted for being incorrect. If I answer, "A cord that is 10 inches long would fit your criteria," it's correct but not actually addressing your question.
My concern is more in questions that have a broad range of opinion or advice, not "I need a certain length cord." The examples linked are generally, "Help me find new artists!" and "Help me understand this psychological phenomenon" and "Explain how you would solve this math problem." (I'll withdraw "What are ways I can solve this logistical problem with a pharmacy" because the deleted answers were going against the stated criteria.) There's not a "correct" answer in those cases, but answers were deleted as if there were a correct answer.
posted by lapis at 6:24 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
If you want to say they should be deleted for not addressing the question, I'm ok with that within reason (again, I think the moderators are interpreting "doesn't address the question" too broadly in less cut-and-dried questions). I don't think it should be deleted for being incorrect. If I answer, "A cord that is 10 inches long would fit your criteria," it's correct but not actually addressing your question.
My concern is more in questions that have a broad range of opinion or advice, not "I need a certain length cord." The examples linked are generally, "Help me find new artists!" and "Help me understand this psychological phenomenon" and "Explain how you would solve this math problem." (I'll withdraw "What are ways I can solve this logistical problem with a pharmacy" because the deleted answers were going against the stated criteria.) There's not a "correct" answer in those cases, but answers were deleted as if there were a correct answer.
posted by lapis at 6:24 PM on February 16 [3 favorites]
do not tell me to get a heated mattress pad
posted by phunniemee at 6:29 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
posted by phunniemee at 6:29 PM on February 16 [1 favorite]
Ah yes, the heated mattress pad. Well, I did not actually tell you to get a heated mattress pad. I asked you what the problem with them was, so that I could give a non-heated-mattress-pad answer that was suited to your needs. But you apparently chose to see that as a way of telling you to get a heated mattress pad, and so I decided: screw it, I'm done here, you made your own cold bed and you can lie in it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:57 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:57 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]
This is bugging me too. In this Ask: link @soleo made a request.
I found the ask poorly written: The first sentence is talking about a lightning cord, but that’s not what they actually wanted, they wanted a USB-C to USB-A cord. Later in the ask, they mentioned no Amazon, but in a somewhat passive way that wasn’t entirely clear whether this was or was not a hard requirement. The ask also asks about the theory behind cord length, which doesn’t seem terribly relevant if the OP only wants a link to buy a specific cord.
I replied, with the correct answer, which was deleted because it was an Amazon link.
I came back and tried again and got Marked as the best answer.
However, it was a pain in the ass:
1. The Ask was very simple but poorly written so hard to understand. Please don’t make us work to understand your snowflakes! If you want a USB cord, don’t start off talking about lightning, etc.
2. My perfectly cromulent reply was deleted without notification. This was very confusing, as I started to doubt myself— had I actually posted it? Did I just hit preview and forget to hit post etc.
3. I was under the impression that MetaFilter is partially funded by Amazon affiliate links. Is this not true? Wouldn’t it have been better to leave the Amazon link, and request another link which met the OPs desires?
posted by soylent00FF00 at 6:59 AM on February 17 [3 favorites]
I found the ask poorly written: The first sentence is talking about a lightning cord, but that’s not what they actually wanted, they wanted a USB-C to USB-A cord. Later in the ask, they mentioned no Amazon, but in a somewhat passive way that wasn’t entirely clear whether this was or was not a hard requirement. The ask also asks about the theory behind cord length, which doesn’t seem terribly relevant if the OP only wants a link to buy a specific cord.
I replied, with the correct answer, which was deleted because it was an Amazon link.
I came back and tried again and got Marked as the best answer.
However, it was a pain in the ass:
1. The Ask was very simple but poorly written so hard to understand. Please don’t make us work to understand your snowflakes! If you want a USB cord, don’t start off talking about lightning, etc.
2. My perfectly cromulent reply was deleted without notification. This was very confusing, as I started to doubt myself— had I actually posted it? Did I just hit preview and forget to hit post etc.
3. I was under the impression that MetaFilter is partially funded by Amazon affiliate links. Is this not true? Wouldn’t it have been better to leave the Amazon link, and request another link which met the OPs desires?
posted by soylent00FF00 at 6:59 AM on February 17 [3 favorites]
Here's my proposal:
All deletions, site-wide, should auto generate a MeFiMail form letter.
The form letter could list the most common reasons for deletion for each sub site, and mention that there may be additional mod notes in the thread.
[Optional bonus feature]
And include a link to the form to edit your original comment and resubmit it.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 7:15 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]
All deletions, site-wide, should auto generate a MeFiMail form letter.
The form letter could list the most common reasons for deletion for each sub site, and mention that there may be additional mod notes in the thread.
[Optional bonus feature]
And include a link to the form to edit your original comment and resubmit it.
posted by soylent00FF00 at 7:15 AM on February 17 [1 favorite]
and so I decided: screw it, I'm done here, you made your own cold bed and you can lie in it.
Cute! You know, I've just been dragging this post around with me as a personal meme the last few years as an example of the futility of trying to put constraints on responses, but now I know it seems to piss you off I like it even more.
posted by phunniemee at 7:27 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
Cute! You know, I've just been dragging this post around with me as a personal meme the last few years as an example of the futility of trying to put constraints on responses, but now I know it seems to piss you off I like it even more.
posted by phunniemee at 7:27 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
Putting aside chatfilter and relationship questiins, I see two types of questions. One is the more general question, "How do I change the air filter on my Ford F150?" There are no qualifications or limitations. The answers are relevant to the asker, but also to someone researching it later.
I have a moderation question based on that. Say, the OP has marked a few comments as best answer and/or they respond saying "Thanks! That's exactly what I needed!"
Since the OP has already said the question is answered, is there more leeway for answers that don't 100% answer the question? For example, "Glad you got the answer you were looking for. Just a heads up for others, if you get F150 with full size crew cab, the air filter will actually be in place x instead of place y."
As JohnnyGunn mentioned, even though you should answer what the asker is looking for, others read the questions to help themselves, as well. So, once the asker has their answer is there any more leniency for "not quite right" answers?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:17 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
I have a moderation question based on that. Say, the OP has marked a few comments as best answer and/or they respond saying "Thanks! That's exactly what I needed!"
Since the OP has already said the question is answered, is there more leeway for answers that don't 100% answer the question? For example, "Glad you got the answer you were looking for. Just a heads up for others, if you get F150 with full size crew cab, the air filter will actually be in place x instead of place y."
As JohnnyGunn mentioned, even though you should answer what the asker is looking for, others read the questions to help themselves, as well. So, once the asker has their answer is there any more leniency for "not quite right" answers?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 10:17 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
Aw but if we provide content on the part of the site most likely to show up in google results we might get a new user signup or two. Best not to risk it.
posted by phunniemee at 10:34 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 10:34 AM on February 17 [2 favorites]
For myself, I think it's OK if an AskMe thread has a bunch of near-correct or partially-correct answers left in place. That's why the "Mark as best answer" button exists: it allows the asker to draw attention to the answers which have the highest accuracy and utility.
I often search old AskMes, and the near-right answers might be better for my situation, or the "best answers" might not even be available or applicable any more. (Similar to a non mouse, above.)
Honestly, I would prefer if the Asker could mark the waaaay off-base rants and corrections for deletion -- a corresponding "Mark as worst answer" feature, if you will -- for some script to reap automagically.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:51 AM on February 18 [5 favorites]
I often search old AskMes, and the near-right answers might be better for my situation, or the "best answers" might not even be available or applicable any more. (Similar to a non mouse, above.)
Honestly, I would prefer if the Asker could mark the waaaay off-base rants and corrections for deletion -- a corresponding "Mark as worst answer" feature, if you will -- for some script to reap automagically.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:51 AM on February 18 [5 favorites]
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posted by Umami Dearest at 8:40 PM on February 13 [26 favorites]