#USDefaultism and #otherDefaultisms August 23, 2024 10:05 AM Subscribe
FPPs often say something like "New bird spotted in the EastWest Territory" or whatever and I have no clue of what they're talking about.
Many FPPs are specific to some specific country/region/state/territory without specifying what country they're talking about. This is basically the SOP for the US, but also quite common for other English-speaking countries.
It's not that surprising for an English-language site, but I believe MeFI should strive to be truly international, so I think this sort of thing could at least be noted.
I realize this is not a huge deal, and I'm not proposing a rule about this, but as somebody who doesn't live in the Anglosphere, it makes the site seem less welcoming, and it's not that hard to say the EastWest Territory of New Caladan.
Many FPPs are specific to some specific country/region/state/territory without specifying what country they're talking about. This is basically the SOP for the US, but also quite common for other English-speaking countries.
It's not that surprising for an English-language site, but I believe MeFI should strive to be truly international, so I think this sort of thing could at least be noted.
I realize this is not a huge deal, and I'm not proposing a rule about this, but as somebody who doesn't live in the Anglosphere, it makes the site seem less welcoming, and it's not that hard to say the EastWest Territory of New Caladan.
I'd worry that this would be more aggressively enforced against posts coming from a non-US perspective, and force users making those posts to do more work to provide context that could be found in the link itself. After *reading the linked material in a post*, how often is it still unclear what's being referred to?
How many posts depend entirely on whether they mean the Western Territory (of Australia) or a different Western Territory to the extent that you'd click one and skip the other?
posted by sagc at 10:13 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
How many posts depend entirely on whether they mean the Western Territory (of Australia) or a different Western Territory to the extent that you'd click one and skip the other?
posted by sagc at 10:13 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Strong disagree. I live for the 15 seconds of indulgent joy every day when I can pretend that I have a fungus busting frog sauna or a pet crocodile problem local to me.
It is entirely optional to read metafilter at all, if you don't understand something from context clues or don't care enough to "waste" a few seconds learning something new, then you don't have to look at it. I actually love when there are more non US posts from non US people that don't overexplain themselves. It's how Kitteh keeps tricking me into knowing anything about Canada, for example.
posted by phunniemee at 10:33 AM on August 23 [52 favorites]
It is entirely optional to read metafilter at all, if you don't understand something from context clues or don't care enough to "waste" a few seconds learning something new, then you don't have to look at it. I actually love when there are more non US posts from non US people that don't overexplain themselves. It's how Kitteh keeps tricking me into knowing anything about Canada, for example.
posted by phunniemee at 10:33 AM on August 23 [52 favorites]
I'm not talking about 'wasting' seconds. I'm talking about the fact that the US, (or Australia or UK) are the unmarked default.
If you don't understand this, that's fine.
posted by signal at 11:09 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
If you don't understand this, that's fine.
posted by signal at 11:09 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
I don't see it as an unmarked default for anything but the US, to be honest, and see someone like Chariot Pulled By Cassowaries as doing good work to push back against the assumption that any proper noun/location must be in the United States.
If the argument is that *every* location should be marked by country or locale, regardless of whether the country is English-speaking, I can see where we're coming from - but I'd rather it go the other way, where there's an expectation that you engage with the post before posting something like "What country is this post about Jakarta focused on".
Or maybe I'm not quite understanding which sorts of posts need the changes?
posted by sagc at 11:17 AM on August 23 [20 favorites]
If the argument is that *every* location should be marked by country or locale, regardless of whether the country is English-speaking, I can see where we're coming from - but I'd rather it go the other way, where there's an expectation that you engage with the post before posting something like "What country is this post about Jakarta focused on".
Or maybe I'm not quite understanding which sorts of posts need the changes?
posted by sagc at 11:17 AM on August 23 [20 favorites]
The US-defaulters probably will need to be reminded (often) to indicate that their post pertains to the US. (Yes, I'm from the US.)
Wondering if we could have a new field on post creation that required the user to specify the country to which their post pertains? Sometimes the very subject of the post makes it obvious, but clearly that isn't always the case.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 11:29 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Wondering if we could have a new field on post creation that required the user to specify the country to which their post pertains? Sometimes the very subject of the post makes it obvious, but clearly that isn't always the case.
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 11:29 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I personally don’t find this a problem and am occasionally delighted by a headline that seems to suggest possums or crocodiles doing something noteworthy in Washington only to discover that it’s Western Australia. It’s fun! But, if it upsets some members, I don’t think it’s an excessive burden to mark the country more clearly.
On the other other hand, I’m shocked when a post by chariot pulled by cassowaries isn’t about Australia, but that is also part of the fun.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:22 PM on August 23 [19 favorites]
On the other other hand, I’m shocked when a post by chariot pulled by cassowaries isn’t about Australia, but that is also part of the fun.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:22 PM on August 23 [19 favorites]
When Chariots Pulled by Cassowaries started making the Australia flora and fauna posts, I was thrown by a few of them, and I sort of wished the posts were a bit clearer where they were about.
But I know that this will never, ever be a thing for the vast majority of posts about a US city or state, and the end result will be more hoops for International members to jump through and more marking of non-US content as something unusual.
It's not that I disagree with your goal, signal -- I'd like the site to be more welcoming to non-Americans and people outside of the anglosphere. I don't even I disagree with your idea in theory because more clarity is always welcome. It's just that I think in practice, your idea will have exactly the opposite effect of what you are hoping for.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:36 PM on August 23 [15 favorites]
But I know that this will never, ever be a thing for the vast majority of posts about a US city or state, and the end result will be more hoops for International members to jump through and more marking of non-US content as something unusual.
It's not that I disagree with your goal, signal -- I'd like the site to be more welcoming to non-Americans and people outside of the anglosphere. I don't even I disagree with your idea in theory because more clarity is always welcome. It's just that I think in practice, your idea will have exactly the opposite effect of what you are hoping for.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:36 PM on August 23 [15 favorites]
I think this is a good reminder. I can't see adding geographical domain information to every post about a person, work of art, etc., etc. that I mention here, but when it's relevant, seems like a useful addition for our community.
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:11 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 1:11 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I don't see it as an unmarked default for anything but the US, to be honest, and see someone like Chariot Pulled By Cassowaries as doing good work to push back against the assumption that any proper noun/location must be in the United States.
I am Australian so generally get the context of those posts but I strongly agree with the above. It's a little jolt of oh yeah, this is our place too. I feel it would be good for the site both for more people to experience that and for more people from the US to experience not being the default.
posted by deadwax at 2:34 PM on August 23 [29 favorites]
I am Australian so generally get the context of those posts but I strongly agree with the above. It's a little jolt of oh yeah, this is our place too. I feel it would be good for the site both for more people to experience that and for more people from the US to experience not being the default.
posted by deadwax at 2:34 PM on August 23 [29 favorites]
I'm talking about the fact that the US, (or Australia or UK) are the unmarked default.
Yeah, but so what? The problem here is with ourselves. Whenever I encounter a geographical unknown in an FPP (or wherever on MeFi) I immediately switch to the poster's profile, and INVARIABLY you haven't filled in your location. Not even your country? Why not?
posted by Rash at 2:35 PM on August 23 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but so what? The problem here is with ourselves. Whenever I encounter a geographical unknown in an FPP (or wherever on MeFi) I immediately switch to the poster's profile, and INVARIABLY you haven't filled in your location. Not even your country? Why not?
posted by Rash at 2:35 PM on August 23 [1 favorite]
I think this is a totally reasonable ask, particularly given that the OP is not asking for a rule!
When you make a new post, you get these descriptions for a title "Keep it short and descriptive. It will be displayed on both the front page and comment page." Perhaps this could be slightly amended: "Keep it short and descriptive. Remember that our membership is international...." Or something along those lines. Alt: "Keep it short and accessible to our international membership."
posted by coffeecat at 2:56 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
When you make a new post, you get these descriptions for a title "Keep it short and descriptive. It will be displayed on both the front page and comment page." Perhaps this could be slightly amended: "Keep it short and descriptive. Remember that our membership is international...." Or something along those lines. Alt: "Keep it short and accessible to our international membership."
posted by coffeecat at 2:56 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
In principle, I agree. I've found myself flailing at my fellow Americans when they enter an non-US thread and immediately make it about the US. (The mods are quite good about quashing this sort of thing.)
But.
As much as I like being on Metafilter and participating on Metafilter, I absolutely do not see Metafilter as an international site. I just don't. It's too US-centric even on first blush, and you know what? It is what it is. It's like when I was on Barbelith, which was predominately UK-centric. The site more or less reflects the country in which it's based.
That being said, I love love love the posts by non-US users. I wish they would get more traction but if you were to break down posts most visited? I guarantee you that the US-centered ones would win.
posted by Kitteh at 3:05 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
But.
As much as I like being on Metafilter and participating on Metafilter, I absolutely do not see Metafilter as an international site. I just don't. It's too US-centric even on first blush, and you know what? It is what it is. It's like when I was on Barbelith, which was predominately UK-centric. The site more or less reflects the country in which it's based.
That being said, I love love love the posts by non-US users. I wish they would get more traction but if you were to break down posts most visited? I guarantee you that the US-centered ones would win.
posted by Kitteh at 3:05 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
If I might gripe for a moment: this doesn't really bother me on the blue, but it's always annoying on Ask, when people (invariably Americans) don't even think to mention which country they are asking about for questions that clearly have different answers in different countries. Sometimes they even list all kinds of perhaps pertinent details, but completely fail to mention the country they are asking about!
posted by ssg at 3:33 PM on August 23 [34 favorites]
posted by ssg at 3:33 PM on August 23 [34 favorites]
I've often gotten US-only answers to questions, sometimes even when I specifically state that I'm not in the US.
posted by signal at 3:38 PM on August 23 [18 favorites]
posted by signal at 3:38 PM on August 23 [18 favorites]
If I might gripe for a moment: this doesn't really bother me on the blue, but it's always annoying on Ask, when people (invariably Americans) don't even think to mention which country they are asking about for questions that clearly have different answers in different countries. Sometimes they even list all kinds of perhaps pertinent details, but completely fail to mention the country they are asking about!
This never fails to crack me up. No state, no country, no context - just tell me the fucking answer, you!
posted by kbanas at 4:01 PM on August 23 [6 favorites]
This never fails to crack me up. No state, no country, no context - just tell me the fucking answer, you!
posted by kbanas at 4:01 PM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I agree with this request. it is also been a hobby horse of mine for years on metafilter should be more International site and I think people should be allowed to post in their own language with no English or any other language but their own and if we English speakers don't like it well we don't have to participate.
posted by clavdivs at 5:46 PM on August 23 [7 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 5:46 PM on August 23 [7 favorites]
I like when Chariots Pulled by Cassowaries pulls me out of the usual and narrow Metafilter experience, sharing a part of the world I know next to nothing about.
Other than that, I would only suggest people concerned about this dig a little into Metafilter's mildly embarrassing history with Usain Bolt for some gentle lighthearted perspective.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:51 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Other than that, I would only suggest people concerned about this dig a little into Metafilter's mildly embarrassing history with Usain Bolt for some gentle lighthearted perspective.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:51 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Hey, chariot’s latest post about the “Northern Territory” is catering to an international audience. Aussies just call it the Territory.
posted by rory at 6:22 PM on August 23 [13 favorites]
posted by rory at 6:22 PM on August 23 [13 favorites]
What I guess I take for granted is that readers of MetaFilter know that all FPPs feature these things we call 'links' and that if you happen to click on one, whether by accident or design, you will know, probably within about 5 seconds, what part or parts of the world the FPP is referring to.
But perhaps that’s too much trouble for some people to take, and they would prefer to let their irritation over not having their fare cut up into perfect little bite sized pieces before it’s set before them build up to the point it overflows into a meta such as this.
Either that, or there’s something else going on, something that the author of this Meta is unwilling or unable to make explicit.
I know that if I were Charoit Pulled by Cassowaries, I would worry that my posts were rubbing signal and possibly other people the wrong way, and I might not make as many FPPs in the future.
And if that happens, it will be a disaster for the site, and I will be not simply irritated, but outright angry with you, signal, as well as the moderators who approved this post which did not name names, but was clearly pointed at one specific user.
Didn’t you learn anything from what happened with kliuless?
posted by jamjam at 9:35 PM on August 23 [16 favorites]
But perhaps that’s too much trouble for some people to take, and they would prefer to let their irritation over not having their fare cut up into perfect little bite sized pieces before it’s set before them build up to the point it overflows into a meta such as this.
Either that, or there’s something else going on, something that the author of this Meta is unwilling or unable to make explicit.
I know that if I were Charoit Pulled by Cassowaries, I would worry that my posts were rubbing signal and possibly other people the wrong way, and I might not make as many FPPs in the future.
And if that happens, it will be a disaster for the site, and I will be not simply irritated, but outright angry with you, signal, as well as the moderators who approved this post which did not name names, but was clearly pointed at one specific user.
Didn’t you learn anything from what happened with kliuless?
posted by jamjam at 9:35 PM on August 23 [16 favorites]
is all this happening? on earth?
posted by HearHere at 1:55 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by HearHere at 1:55 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I get really confused every time WA means Western Australia and not Washington state.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:26 AM on August 24
posted by Jacqueline at 3:26 AM on August 24
jamjam: this post was not 'pointed' at any one user.
Aside from that, everything else in your passive-agressive post is your own fantasy, so I don't really feel any need to respond to it.
posted by signal at 4:24 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Aside from that, everything else in your passive-agressive post is your own fantasy, so I don't really feel any need to respond to it.
posted by signal at 4:24 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
I get really confused every time Washington means Washington State and isn't being used as shorthand to refer to Cox & Combes' Washington (2007) but we must all of us bravely soldier on.
posted by phunniemee at 4:25 AM on August 24 [10 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 4:25 AM on August 24 [10 favorites]
How many posts depend entirely on whether they mean the Western Territory (of Australia) or a different Western Territory to the extent that you'd click one and skip the other?
The Western Territory (of Australia) isn't a place, so I'm guessing none?
posted from Walla Walla, Washington District of Colombia
posted by flabdablet at 4:50 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
The Western Territory (of Australia) isn't a place, so I'm guessing none?
posted from Walla Walla, Washington District of Colombia
posted by flabdablet at 4:50 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
I've often gotten US-only answers to questions, sometimes even when I specifically state that I'm not in the US
all you american continentals look alike to us
posted by flabdablet at 4:51 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
all you american continentals look alike to us
posted by flabdablet at 4:51 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
I never remember what WA means so I just interpret it as 'somewhere in the USA, probably'.
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:01 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 5:01 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I absolutely do not see Metafilter as an international site. I just don't. It's too US-centric even on first blush, and you know what? It is what it is.
I agree with this general sentiment on the Blue - regrettably, because as a US member I could use more non-US perspectives in my life - if only because holy god, people, we have enough goddamn rules around here already.
Flipside, Ask is about connecting people with information and answers they’re having trouble locating. That’s it. It’s why we ban most chatter there. When you assume a US basis on Ask there is a significant chance you are hurting rather than helping. Ask may not literally have a librarians’ equivalent to the Hippocratic oath, but… close enough, and that’s the general spirit of the place, so making sure you’re in the right locale with your answer whenever contextually relevant seems like a pretty reasonable expectation.
posted by Ryvar at 5:11 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I agree with this general sentiment on the Blue - regrettably, because as a US member I could use more non-US perspectives in my life - if only because holy god, people, we have enough goddamn rules around here already.
Flipside, Ask is about connecting people with information and answers they’re having trouble locating. That’s it. It’s why we ban most chatter there. When you assume a US basis on Ask there is a significant chance you are hurting rather than helping. Ask may not literally have a librarians’ equivalent to the Hippocratic oath, but… close enough, and that’s the general spirit of the place, so making sure you’re in the right locale with your answer whenever contextually relevant seems like a pretty reasonable expectation.
posted by Ryvar at 5:11 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
People post links all the time without explaining what it links to, and why someone would want to click on it. It’ll be a chunk of text that they think is evocative or tantalizing, but only makes sense to them because they just read the article.
I wish they wouldn’t do that, but there’s always been a tension on the Blue between "If you don't like it, don't click on it", and "labels are unnecessary, just click on it." If a post has an ambiguity about the where instead of the what, that’s fine with me.
posted by zamboni at 5:48 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
I wish they wouldn’t do that, but there’s always been a tension on the Blue between "If you don't like it, don't click on it", and "labels are unnecessary, just click on it." If a post has an ambiguity about the where instead of the what, that’s fine with me.
posted by zamboni at 5:48 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
"New bird spotted in the EastWest Territory" or whatever
this post was not 'pointed' at any one user.
Technically true, but if you didn’t intend to make an indirect cpbc callout, you did a bad job of providing hypothetical examples.
posted by zamboni at 6:03 AM on August 24 [11 favorites]
this post was not 'pointed' at any one user.
Technically true, but if you didn’t intend to make an indirect cpbc callout, you did a bad job of providing hypothetical examples.
posted by zamboni at 6:03 AM on August 24 [11 favorites]
LOL, someone should just write a MeFi style guide already. We're kinda there with explaining in-jokes.
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:42 AM on August 24
posted by frecklefaerie at 8:42 AM on August 24
this post was not 'pointed' at any one user
i know this is an 'in' joke, but that felt very pointed at me. birds aren't real! [birdsarentreal.com]
posted by HearHere at 10:46 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
i know this is an 'in' joke, but that felt very pointed at me. birds aren't real! [birdsarentreal.com]
posted by HearHere at 10:46 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
someone should just write a MeFi style guide already.
What Is A Good Post?
What Is A Good Comment?
Formatting
posted by zamboni at 11:01 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
What Is A Good Post?
What Is A Good Comment?
Formatting
posted by zamboni at 11:01 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
"New bird spotted in the EastWest Territory" or whatever and I have no clue of what they're talking about.
That's because the location of the EastWest Territory is a closely guarded secret of the cabal. They don't let just anybody go there. Or so I've heard.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:28 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
That's because the location of the EastWest Territory is a closely guarded secret of the cabal. They don't let just anybody go there. Or so I've heard.
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:28 AM on August 24 [1 favorite]
The ONLY time it matters is askme as many/most questions are most effectively answered if the geo location is known:
country + Region/State/Province.. + county/city.
posted by unearthed at 11:54 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
country + Region/State/Province.. + county/city.
posted by unearthed at 11:54 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Well, I was born in the tri-cities, went to school for a bit in the triad, and now live in the triangle. I'd be delighted to know what other places in the world those shorthands refer to, but I'm guessing that's free thread territory.
Sometimes I am amused with by the geographical confusion of my fellow Americans. Remember back in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia? That was a fun couple of days in the Southeast US.
posted by thivaia at 1:37 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Sometimes I am amused with by the geographical confusion of my fellow Americans. Remember back in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia? That was a fun couple of days in the Southeast US.
posted by thivaia at 1:37 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
HMAS Canberra.
USS Canberra.
1. no such vessel(s)
2. An Australian naval ship
3. An America naval ship.
4. one is a Starfleet science vessel.
Don't Google now.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
USS Canberra.
1. no such vessel(s)
2. An Australian naval ship
3. An America naval ship.
4. one is a Starfleet science vessel.
Don't Google now.
posted by clavdivs at 1:53 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
Well, I was born in the tri-cities, went to school for a bit in the triad, and now live in the triangle.
I live right near Five Corners.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:33 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I live right near Five Corners.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:33 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
After some reflection, I've decided to provide more context to my above comment.
MetaFilter has a long list of soft guidelines for posting that have been proposed over the years. I have previously elsewhere said I think there should be fewer barriers to posting, and the proposal here is one more barrier to posting. I think it fits into the category of "things that could be helpful, but have the potential to decrease engagement here." Perhaps others have thoughts about that. I don't know whether this sort of ask is more likely to increase or decrease engagement, but I know that my desire to contribute to MetaFilter has been repeatedly deadened this year by a range of things on the site, leading me to consider buttoning more than once. If people including the above sort of content on a post would make people more interested in contributing to the site, I would like to hear it.
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:21 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter has a long list of soft guidelines for posting that have been proposed over the years. I have previously elsewhere said I think there should be fewer barriers to posting, and the proposal here is one more barrier to posting. I think it fits into the category of "things that could be helpful, but have the potential to decrease engagement here." Perhaps others have thoughts about that. I don't know whether this sort of ask is more likely to increase or decrease engagement, but I know that my desire to contribute to MetaFilter has been repeatedly deadened this year by a range of things on the site, leading me to consider buttoning more than once. If people including the above sort of content on a post would make people more interested in contributing to the site, I would like to hear it.
posted by cupcakeninja at 5:21 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
cupcakeninja, i mostly want to say that i appreciate your posts!
what zamboni described: there’s always been a tension on the Blue between "If you don't like it, don't click on it", and "labels are unnecessary, just click on it."
makes a lot of sense to me, as this was a discussion on one of my posts. i think the comments there were great & relate to this thread. hope this helps!
posted by HearHere at 7:14 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
what zamboni described: there’s always been a tension on the Blue between "If you don't like it, don't click on it", and "labels are unnecessary, just click on it."
makes a lot of sense to me, as this was a discussion on one of my posts. i think the comments there were great & relate to this thread. hope this helps!
posted by HearHere at 7:14 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Update from a two family dwelling near the Capitol Theater, Arlington in the County of Middlesex within the western side of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts in the region known colloquially as New England of the United States of America: Sure every post.
posted by sammyo at 9:38 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 9:38 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Didn’t you learn anything from what happened with kliuless?
kliuless hasn't buttoned, to save anyone else from damn near breaking their neck scurrying to check
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:33 AM on August 25 [3 favorites]
kliuless hasn't buttoned, to save anyone else from damn near breaking their neck scurrying to check
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:33 AM on August 25 [3 favorites]
thivaia: I was born in the tri-cities, went to school for a bit in the triad, and now live in the triangle.
None of these terms mean anything to me, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that you probably live in the US.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:28 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
None of these terms mean anything to me, so I'm going to go ahead and guess that you probably live in the US.
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:28 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
Well, I was born in the tri-cities, went to school for a bit in the triad, and now live in the triangle.
I know the third one means you live in Bermuda, but {blank} on the other two.
posted by Wordshore at 2:33 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
I know the third one means you live in Bermuda, but {blank} on the other two.
posted by Wordshore at 2:33 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
The triangle could also refer to a region in North Carolina (and based on their location in their profile, I’m correct) but I’m not sure where any of the other tri-places are
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:40 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 3:40 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
That's because the location of the EastWest Territory is a closely guarded secret of the cabal. They don't let just anybody go there. Or so I've heard.
The reception is terrible with that cabal. And such small portions! Or so I've heard.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:13 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
The reception is terrible with that cabal. And such small portions! Or so I've heard.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:13 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
While I agree that it is something to keep in mind I don't think it should even be a guideline. In line with the statements above that even though this is coming from non American perspective it would only discourage non-Americans from posting when invariably comments mentioning a guideline would only be directed at non American posts.
With one exception: users posting about the happenings of Ontario CA must spell out California or append USA to the end if they are referring to the place in California. Holy hand grenade that ends up being a head banger of CBT severity.
posted by Mitheral at 5:15 AM on August 25 [11 favorites]
With one exception: users posting about the happenings of Ontario CA must spell out California or append USA to the end if they are referring to the place in California. Holy hand grenade that ends up being a head banger of CBT severity.
posted by Mitheral at 5:15 AM on August 25 [11 favorites]
For those interested in the triangulation of places:
* "The Triangle" is short for the Research Triangle, the area of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA>
* The Triad is also in North Carolina, also known as the Piedmont Triad, the area of Greensboro, High Point and Winston-Salem.
* "Tri-Cities" can refer to several places.
posted by NotLost at 5:59 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
* "The Triangle" is short for the Research Triangle, the area of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA>
* The Triad is also in North Carolina, also known as the Piedmont Triad, the area of Greensboro, High Point and Winston-Salem.
* "Tri-Cities" can refer to several places.
posted by NotLost at 5:59 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
Thank you, HearHere, I appreciate it. And I appreciate your posts!
This is perhaps a derail, but I really do like hearing about regions of the world and their toponyms. I can decode 2/3 of the tri- names above, but not all! I don't know any equivalent region names in, say, Romania. Would be happy to learn more.
Specifically to the "it's good for people to have their viewpoint shaken sometimes" point about posts like those of chariot pulled by cassowaries that contain abbreviations shared by different places... I guess I'll say that I think it's useful (and funny!) when it happens sometimes. And also, sometimes the well-meaning (I am truly not talking about any specific poster here) can cross the line into "I'm going to make you learn what it feels like to have this experience, suffering a little along the way." Every fucking time that's happened to me, I've made a point of distancing myself from the would-be activist, and it's also been a net negative in my willingness to engage with their cause, at least for a time.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:00 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
This is perhaps a derail, but I really do like hearing about regions of the world and their toponyms. I can decode 2/3 of the tri- names above, but not all! I don't know any equivalent region names in, say, Romania. Would be happy to learn more.
Specifically to the "it's good for people to have their viewpoint shaken sometimes" point about posts like those of chariot pulled by cassowaries that contain abbreviations shared by different places... I guess I'll say that I think it's useful (and funny!) when it happens sometimes. And also, sometimes the well-meaning (I am truly not talking about any specific poster here) can cross the line into "I'm going to make you learn what it feels like to have this experience, suffering a little along the way." Every fucking time that's happened to me, I've made a point of distancing myself from the would-be activist, and it's also been a net negative in my willingness to engage with their cause, at least for a time.
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:00 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
My position on birds is well-established, so my view is we shouldn’t do anything that even slightly risks inhibiting bird-related posting. It goes without saying that I would protect a chariot pulled by cassowaries with my life*.
I abstractly understand annoyance at not having locations clearly spelled out. Having your expectations undermined can grate, and I think that’s a reasonable issue to have in a more high stakes environment. However, on something as low stakes as a link to a video or article, having your expectations quietly undermined is, generally, delightful. I encourage you to be delighted.
*both the user and an actual chariot
posted by ordinary_magnet at 7:31 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
I abstractly understand annoyance at not having locations clearly spelled out. Having your expectations undermined can grate, and I think that’s a reasonable issue to have in a more high stakes environment. However, on something as low stakes as a link to a video or article, having your expectations quietly undermined is, generally, delightful. I encourage you to be delighted.
*both the user and an actual chariot
posted by ordinary_magnet at 7:31 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
flabdablet: posted from Walla Walla, Washington District of Colombia
I really hope that misspelling was intentional to add another layer of funny, but if it wasn't... well, the comment is *still* funny, just in a different way!
(Walla Walla is in the state of Washington, which is not where Washington D.C. is; D.C. is the abbreviation for "District of Columbia;" "Colombia" is a country in South America, which puts flabdablet in three different places at once)
posted by tzikeh at 8:34 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
I really hope that misspelling was intentional to add another layer of funny, but if it wasn't... well, the comment is *still* funny, just in a different way!
(Walla Walla is in the state of Washington, which is not where Washington D.C. is; D.C. is the abbreviation for "District of Columbia;" "Colombia" is a country in South America, which puts flabdablet in three different places at once)
posted by tzikeh at 8:34 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
Walla Walla is in the state of Washington, which is not where Washington D.C. is
D.C. was Edison. Washington drove a Tesla, which runs on A.C., and won the Current Wars despite Edison's medellin.
posted by flabdablet at 10:57 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
D.C. was Edison. Washington drove a Tesla, which runs on A.C., and won the Current Wars despite Edison's medellin.
posted by flabdablet at 10:57 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
> "Washington was named after President George Washington by an act of the United States Congress during the creation of Washington Territory in 1853; the territory was to be named "Columbia", for the Columbia River and the Columbia District, but Kentucky representative Richard H. Stanton found the name too similar to the District of Columbia (the national capital, itself containing the city of Washington)" [wiki] wawa
posted by HearHere at 11:33 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
posted by HearHere at 11:33 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
posting about the happenings of Ontario CA must spell out California or append USA to the end if they are referring to the place in California
Mitheral, no worries — the Californian Ontario is not exactly a happenin' place.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:40 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Mitheral, no worries — the Californian Ontario is not exactly a happenin' place.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:40 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
[hastens to see if there's an FPP about the baseball stadium used in "A League of Their Own" burning down -- whew, safe at home.]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:43 AM on August 25
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:43 AM on August 25
I think there's a difference between the example in this post - where the reader can quickly find the answer by clicking the link, and where the reader can gain a tiny bit of perspective about what the world looks like when seen from other vantage points - and examples where neither of those things are true.
For example, I often see comments where people give some information about how something is "here" - like "people never cared about the pandemic here" or "people have been talking a lot about [the subject of the FPP] here" or "it's been hotter than usual here". Sometimes the commenters have locations listed in their profiles, but often not. And sometimes the comment is still meaningful even if you don't know where "here" is - but often it really isn't, beyond "this is true for one random location on the globe". I do that, sometimes - I'll say "where I live things are like this or that", aiming purely to express that things are like that somewhere. But in many cases it really seems like the commenter expects people to know where the "here" is, and like the particular location is absolutely relevant.
Or the comment will have one meaning if you know what "here" is but another if you don't - for example a thread about country A will have lots of comments from people talking about life in country A, while some commenter will write about life in country B but will just say "here" and if I don't happen to remember them mentioning elsewhere that they live in B, I'll believe they're talking about country A.
Sometimes people do the same with their professions ("I'm an ophthalmologist-slash-tax-auditor writing this comment from my perspective as such, but you won't know that unless you've been around for a long time and happen to remember some time when I actually mentioned that information") or family situations or what have you. That people feel comfortable assuming readers will know what they're talking about is nice on the one hand (it's like a cute small town!) and annoying on the other (how much times does a reader have to spend here before they start being able to follow these really random references about internet strangers?)
If I might gripe for a moment: this doesn't really bother me on the blue, but it's always annoying on Ask, when people (invariably Americans) don't even think to mention which country they are asking about for questions that clearly have different answers in different countries. Sometimes they even list all kinds of perhaps pertinent details, but completely fail to mention the country they are asking about!
I've seen questions like that from some UK and Canadian askers too. Either way, sometimes it's going to be just less helpful for the asker (maybe they'll ask for product recommendations and get a million links to non-local businesses), and sometimes it can be really problematic (how many times has someone asked "is it legal to do XYZ?" without bothering to specify what legal jurisdiction they're actually in?)
Though that last example - and the thing about "over in these parts I was talking with Julie about how this will affect our boss" comments where knowing where "these parts" is, what the job is, and who Julie is are key to actually understanding what the comment means - point to this being about more than only default locations, I think. People might have no expectation at all, if they stop to consciously think about it, that people will know what they're referring to -- but they just never stop to consciously consider their audience in the first place. That's a kind of self-centering that isn't unique to Americans in my experience. Getting people (or ourselves...) to remember that other people are just not operating with the same mental context at any particular moment is a real challenge.
But always worth trying.
posted by trig at 2:20 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
For example, I often see comments where people give some information about how something is "here" - like "people never cared about the pandemic here" or "people have been talking a lot about [the subject of the FPP] here" or "it's been hotter than usual here". Sometimes the commenters have locations listed in their profiles, but often not. And sometimes the comment is still meaningful even if you don't know where "here" is - but often it really isn't, beyond "this is true for one random location on the globe". I do that, sometimes - I'll say "where I live things are like this or that", aiming purely to express that things are like that somewhere. But in many cases it really seems like the commenter expects people to know where the "here" is, and like the particular location is absolutely relevant.
Or the comment will have one meaning if you know what "here" is but another if you don't - for example a thread about country A will have lots of comments from people talking about life in country A, while some commenter will write about life in country B but will just say "here" and if I don't happen to remember them mentioning elsewhere that they live in B, I'll believe they're talking about country A.
Sometimes people do the same with their professions ("I'm an ophthalmologist-slash-tax-auditor writing this comment from my perspective as such, but you won't know that unless you've been around for a long time and happen to remember some time when I actually mentioned that information") or family situations or what have you. That people feel comfortable assuming readers will know what they're talking about is nice on the one hand (it's like a cute small town!) and annoying on the other (how much times does a reader have to spend here before they start being able to follow these really random references about internet strangers?)
If I might gripe for a moment: this doesn't really bother me on the blue, but it's always annoying on Ask, when people (invariably Americans) don't even think to mention which country they are asking about for questions that clearly have different answers in different countries. Sometimes they even list all kinds of perhaps pertinent details, but completely fail to mention the country they are asking about!
I've seen questions like that from some UK and Canadian askers too. Either way, sometimes it's going to be just less helpful for the asker (maybe they'll ask for product recommendations and get a million links to non-local businesses), and sometimes it can be really problematic (how many times has someone asked "is it legal to do XYZ?" without bothering to specify what legal jurisdiction they're actually in?)
Though that last example - and the thing about "over in these parts I was talking with Julie about how this will affect our boss" comments where knowing where "these parts" is, what the job is, and who Julie is are key to actually understanding what the comment means - point to this being about more than only default locations, I think. People might have no expectation at all, if they stop to consciously think about it, that people will know what they're referring to -- but they just never stop to consciously consider their audience in the first place. That's a kind of self-centering that isn't unique to Americans in my experience. Getting people (or ourselves...) to remember that other people are just not operating with the same mental context at any particular moment is a real challenge.
But always worth trying.
posted by trig at 2:20 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
... I absolutely do not see Metafilter as an international site. I just don't. It's too US-centric ...
I get your point, but disagree, in that there is significant participation from all over the world. That sometimes can be a bit opaque, partly because many posts are not tied to any one country, so there's no clue about where everyone is, but also the time & day difference. I have no data to pull from my arse, but I very much notice a weekly cycle of participation - here, it's early Monday afternoon but, in many other places, it's still Sunday and there's definitely less participation from the US on (my) Mondays (I assume because many participate from work).
The place is definitely US-skewed and the majority of people are based there, but the US doesn't own MetaFilter, despite the country's overwhelming desire to own everything. If you're in the US, you may not notice the cycles of participation that vary from your own because the change isn't as significant for you.
So, I think it would be good for everyone to remember that we don't all share a comprehensive recall of geographic abbreviations and spell things out a bit more. But I'm also a fan of a bit of mystery meat now and again and am not afraid to click on something that isn't within some pre-determined radius of my home. It's always good to think about your audience when you're writing, of course. But we're mostly adults and can figure lots of things out if we put our mind to them. Yes, AskMe is a somewhat different case and more information rather than less would be helpful.
posted by dg at 7:55 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
I get your point, but disagree, in that there is significant participation from all over the world. That sometimes can be a bit opaque, partly because many posts are not tied to any one country, so there's no clue about where everyone is, but also the time & day difference. I have no data to pull from my arse, but I very much notice a weekly cycle of participation - here, it's early Monday afternoon but, in many other places, it's still Sunday and there's definitely less participation from the US on (my) Mondays (I assume because many participate from work).
The place is definitely US-skewed and the majority of people are based there, but the US doesn't own MetaFilter, despite the country's overwhelming desire to own everything. If you're in the US, you may not notice the cycles of participation that vary from your own because the change isn't as significant for you.
So, I think it would be good for everyone to remember that we don't all share a comprehensive recall of geographic abbreviations and spell things out a bit more. But I'm also a fan of a bit of mystery meat now and again and am not afraid to click on something that isn't within some pre-determined radius of my home. It's always good to think about your audience when you're writing, of course. But we're mostly adults and can figure lots of things out if we put our mind to them. Yes, AskMe is a somewhat different case and more information rather than less would be helpful.
posted by dg at 7:55 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
My automatic assumption when seeing WA is Washington (since I live on the OR/WA border), but it's generally relatively easy to recognize when it's Western Australia, instead.
It's the pesky people writing Washington, when they really mean Washington D.C., that aggravate me...
(Joking... but also putting it in perspective. To us out here on the U.S. West Coast, the District of Columbia and it's typical population often DO feel like a different country. Or planet.)
posted by stormyteal at 8:03 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
It's the pesky people writing Washington, when they really mean Washington D.C., that aggravate me...
(Joking... but also putting it in perspective. To us out here on the U.S. West Coast, the District of Columbia and it's typical population often DO feel like a different country. Or planet.)
posted by stormyteal at 8:03 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Washington, is it? Different country?? I guess we can reduce confusion by referring to the original-and-best as Hwæsingatūn (the place of Wossa's Peeps) in NE [Old] England.
posted by BobTheScientist at 4:27 AM on August 26 [2 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 4:27 AM on August 26 [2 favorites]
I like being poked out of my NA-centric world view. Multiple times I've smiled at myself for assuming a post is about somewhere it isn't. Reminds me to keep my mind open and remember the world. I wouldn't get that if everything was thoroughly labeled. And being reminded about my stereotypes and prejudices is a good thing.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:13 AM on August 26 [9 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:13 AM on August 26 [9 favorites]
Would be interesting to know just how US-centric Mefi visitors and members are. I believe the site runs analytics?
Looking at the times posts and comments are made, they skew very heavily toward American waking hours. Note timestamps are in Mefi server time (Pacific).
posted by Klipspringer at 6:38 AM on August 26
Looking at the times posts and comments are made, they skew very heavily toward American waking hours. Note timestamps are in Mefi server time (Pacific).
posted by Klipspringer at 6:38 AM on August 26
I don't see it as an unmarked default for anything but the US, to be honest, and see someone like Chariot Pulled By Cassowaries as doing good work to push back against the assumption that any proper noun/location must be in the United States.
Concur.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:17 AM on August 26 [11 favorites]
Concur.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:17 AM on August 26 [11 favorites]
Another concurrence from Victoria, Australia, as opposed to Victoria, BC, by which I mean British Columbia, CA, by which I mean Canada the country as opposed to California USA, by which I mean the United States of America, which is the other country in North America, a different continent from the other Americas including America, Limburg*, by which I mean the province in the Neverlands, a country previously owned by famous entertainer Michael Jackson who invented the moonwalk some years before it was popularized by Neil Armstrong, the legendary hot air bassoon pilot who taught us all to think to ourselves what a wonderful world.
*which it might surprise you to learn is not where the canonical stinky cheese hails from; the Limburg responsible for that fled across the border and is now living under an assumed name in Belgium.
posted by flabdablet at 8:54 AM on August 26 [8 favorites]
*which it might surprise you to learn is not where the canonical stinky cheese hails from; the Limburg responsible for that fled across the border and is now living under an assumed name in Belgium.
posted by flabdablet at 8:54 AM on August 26 [8 favorites]
pro-tip for other Americans, just remember that "NSW" means "Not Safe for Wales"
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 3:00 PM on August 26 [5 favorites]
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 3:00 PM on August 26 [5 favorites]
as opposed to Victoria, BC, by which I mean British Columbia, CA, by which I mean Canada the country as opposed to California USA, by which I mean the United States of America, which is the other country in North America
You must be talking about Victoria, the Vienna-style* lager sold on the beaches of BC — as in Baja California, one of the United Mexican States, that other country in North America? You know, the country with an eagle as a national symbol?
* By Vienna-style, I am of course referring to one of the nineteen places called Vienna in the neighbouring republic comprised of united states.
posted by ssg at 3:23 PM on August 26 [3 favorites]
You must be talking about Victoria, the Vienna-style* lager sold on the beaches of BC — as in Baja California, one of the United Mexican States, that other country in North America? You know, the country with an eagle as a national symbol?
* By Vienna-style, I am of course referring to one of the nineteen places called Vienna in the neighbouring republic comprised of united states.
posted by ssg at 3:23 PM on August 26 [3 favorites]
There's something extremely MeFi about making an apparently VERY confident assumption that you know precisely what and where a post is about before you have engaged with it, clicking and finding you are wrong, and deciding this is a problem to be solved instead of just a thing you learned today.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:17 AM on August 27 [15 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:17 AM on August 27 [15 favorites]
Hello, world!
posted by legendary hot air bassoon pilot at 9:38 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
posted by legendary hot air bassoon pilot at 9:38 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Sorry, which world is that remark addressing?
posted by flabdablet at 10:07 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 10:07 AM on August 27 [3 favorites]
pro-tip for other Americans, just remember that "NSW" means "Not Safe for Wales"
And for Australians...
posted by rory at 11:13 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
And for Australians...
posted by rory at 11:13 AM on August 27 [1 favorite]
I mean, usually the article the people are linking to in the FPP has more detailed information about what country a given location might be in.
Also, I've just decided not to really care if I guess wrong, I suppose. Becuase hey, I end up learning something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on September 2
Also, I've just decided not to really care if I guess wrong, I suppose. Becuase hey, I end up learning something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on September 2
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by supermedusa at 10:08 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]