Ugh, all RIGHT, mom, I get it.

June 30, 2008 11:08 PM

Why do people feel the need to post the same (obvious) advice other people have given, especially after the asker has already marked the best answer?

I mean, sure, the guy pretty clearly needs to step off his sister's computer, but the best answer (which was the first response!) was marked almost as soon as it was submitted. Do the subsequent answerers think the posters are really so dense as to have not actually read the preceding 5 (10? 15?) answers that all say the same thing?

I mean, what gives?

posted by phunniemee to Etiquette/Policy at 11:08 PM (107 comments total)

People like answering questions. That's about it.
posted by ORthey at 11:15 PM on June 30, 2008

For the same reason about 8 other people will say essentially this same thing—though oh so or more so clever—après-moi.
posted by carsonb at 11:15 PM on June 30, 2008

2nding that people like to answer questions.
posted by Deathalicious at 11:16 PM on June 30, 2008 [20 favorites]

They just like talking to salesmen.
posted by dobbs at 11:19 PM on June 30, 2008 [1 favorite]

Yup, people just like to answer questions. Like Deathalicious said.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:19 PM on June 30, 2008

Why does it bother you so much that people are weighing in to agree? It just means the best answer is apparently a really good answer, since so many people support it. I don't see a problem with people spending time typing if they feel like it, and I'm not sure how it hurts you.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:23 PM on June 30, 2008 [1 favorite]

oneirodynia: It doesn't hurt me at all, of course, unless I'm the one asking the question. And even then, it doesn't hurt me, it's just somewhat vexing.

I guess what I find so damning is when people don't weigh in to agree (because that would be phrased more like a "oh yes, so-and-so is right"), but weigh in to say something to the effect of "DOOD OMG UR WRONG" (like they're the first person to think of it ever) when several people before them have said the exact same thing.

So, no, not at all of earth-shattering importance that people stop doing it. Just something I've noticed time and time again and don't really understand. Except that people must like hearing the clickety clicks of their own typing.
posted by phunniemee at 11:29 PM on June 30, 2008

I agree with all the answers above.
posted by crossoverman at 11:31 PM on June 30, 2008

It might just be me, but I think it's that people like to answer questions.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:38 PM on June 30, 2008

I know what you mean, phunniemee. I always assume the duplicate answers (the duplicates that don't acknowledge the preceding ones, that is) are coming from people who just start typing after reading the question, without reading the answers that are already there. But, hey, like others have said, it's just a curiosity, it doesn't really hurt anyone or negate the usefulness of the site. The more the merrier, as long as the answers are legitimate. Plus, seeing other people posting the same kinds of answers might be the tipping point for the asker, insofar as determining that a certain point of fact or a certain piece of advice really is the right answer.
posted by amyms at 11:39 PM on June 30, 2008

These responses are all wrong. Dangerously wrong. If you follow this advice you will end up in prison.

Or the hospital. Or the morgue Or or all three. At the same time. But in different countries. Because you've been parted out and shipped around the world.

Consult a competent professional who is licensed in this field immediately, or you will live to regret it, if indeed you live at all.
posted by dersins at 11:40 PM on June 30, 2008 [4 favorites]

OK, I can see why you'd be irritated by some of the less thoughtful answers, but... whatever. If people want to out themselves as less thoughtful, that's sort of their own problem. It's much worse when they are not only less thoughtful, but utterly incorrect.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:41 PM on June 30, 2008

People like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.
posted by Justinian at 11:46 PM on June 30, 2008 [1 favorite]

DOOD OMG UR WRONG.
posted by juv3nal at 11:47 PM on June 30, 2008 [1 favorite]

People like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.
posted by blasdelf at 11:51 PM on June 30, 2008

People like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:02 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Often when someone considering a stupid action, it's better to hear from thirty people that such action is stupid rather than one.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 12:03 AM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

What if the poster of the question could by marking a best answer close the thread?
posted by hortense at 12:05 AM on July 1, 2008

This is why Metafilter needs an "I agree" button. If a user sees an answer that he completely agrees with, he could just hit the "I agree" button instead of posting, and it would say "x people agreed with this post." In our profiles, there could be an "x people have agreed with you" field and maybe a searchable index of all the posts you've agreed with. Would this be difficult to code?
posted by theiconoclast31 at 12:10 AM on July 1, 2008 [3 favorites]

I am not a psychologist, but people like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:17 AM on July 1, 2008

I am not a psychologist, but people like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.
posted by bunglin jones at 12:29 AM on July 1, 2008

"This is why Metafilter needs an "I agree" button."

Yup. Ravelry has agree/disagree buttons, and I've gotten so used to them there that it drives me nuts on MeFi sometimes that they aren't here too.
posted by litlnemo at 12:29 AM on July 1, 2008

Because there are people, even after he marked best answer, that are telling the guy to go ahead and fix her computer secretly. Drowning them out seems like an effective way to make sure the guy doesn't change his mind.
posted by Gary at 12:29 AM on July 1, 2008

I've noticed that a lot of people only skim the question, and then don't read any of the previous responses, so that might be why.
posted by cmonkey at 12:36 AM on July 1, 2008

I think if the sister already said 'no' then it should be left at that.
posted by C17H19NO3 at 12:45 AM on July 1, 2008

They might be really slow typists that don't preview.
posted by tellurian at 12:52 AM on July 1, 2008

Yup. Ravelry has agree/disagree buttons, and I've gotten so used to them there that it drives me nuts on MeFi sometimes that they aren't here too.

Oh my.
posted by !Jim at 1:05 AM on July 1, 2008

A lot of people only skim the question, and then don't read any of the previous responses and, in addition, people like to answer questions. If lots of people give a similar answer, it reinforces that answer, even if the answer is written in the light of only having skimmed the question. Therefore; just because a lot of people give the same answer, doesn't mean it's the right answer. It is at least possible that the single person who disagrees with the herd is the only one who actually read the question. Or the only one that didn't. Either way, you can't really trust any of the answers because, come on, these are a bunch of strangers on the Internet who, if they had any read idea about life, would be outside living it instead of in here telling you how to live yours.

What was the question again?
posted by dg at 1:15 AM on July 1, 2008

Ask a lawyer.
posted by grouse at 1:36 AM on July 1, 2008

Shouldn't this be in AskMe?
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 1:54 AM on July 1, 2008

Why do people post rhetorical questions?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 2:13 AM on July 1, 2008

And you know what sucks? When you came up with the answer first, and some copycat gets the favourite or best answer mark.

I figured the multiple answers were because they were the only questions those people actually had answers for, the other questions being too difficult for them.
posted by b33j at 3:02 AM on July 1, 2008

People can be prone to groupthink.

If the subject is to some degree a matter of opinion, then posting without reading the other comments could be a good way of making sure your opinion is independent of any rolling bandwagons.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:36 AM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

They might be really slow typists that don't preview.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:36 AM on July 1, 2008

I'd like to answer this question but everyone else got in first so I'd just like to add that sometimes people just like to answer questions. Does this answer your question?
posted by h00py at 4:56 AM on July 1, 2008

I just really like to answer questions.
posted by Wolof at 5:00 AM on July 1, 2008

I don't mind as much when people keep posting because they have an original contribution to make. But just posting "nthing no" or whatever is beyond pointless.

I am willing to concede that this fact resides in pet-peeveland though.
posted by loiseau at 5:09 AM on July 1, 2008

what loiseau said.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:15 AM on July 1, 2008

I read somewhere - I can't find a cite right now but I'm pretty sure it was in SCIENCE! magazine - that most people hate, hate answering questions.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:21 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

that'll be people with Asperger's that you're thinking of.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:32 AM on July 1, 2008

the preceding 5 (10? 15?) answers that all say the same thing?

They don't all say the same thing. Some are short and terse, while others give longer explanations, a few point out that the OP may not know as much as he thinks, and still others give advice opposite the one marked best answer. I actually think this is a good thing, as people tend to see things a bit differently, so having different ways of saying similar things might "hit home" better with the original poster

Also, after people have taken the time to read and think about the question, they have a personal involvement with it, so there's also a "need" to answer. Some call that "people like to answer questions", while it's really "people like to put in their two cents."

Actually, this question was pretty light on the scale of this thing. There have been other threads in the past about say, whether a married person should cheat, and there were a ton of answers that were pretty universal in the answer of "NO!"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:40 AM on July 1, 2008

Of course, they might disagree with what was marked as best answer.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:46 AM on July 1, 2008

I for one think Howard Johnson is right about Gabby Johnson being right!
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:23 AM on July 1, 2008

Nthing 23skidoo.
posted by grouse at 6:38 AM on July 1, 2008

I haven't read the thread, but: nthing loiseau. Also, I don't know if this has occurred to you, but people just like to answer questions.
posted by languagehat at 7:26 AM on July 1, 2008

The real best answer in that thread is not the first, but the second:

Maybe she doesn't want you to find her porn.

That's insight. I read that and thought, oh, right! That's an angle I didn't think of- the sister has stuff on the computer she doesn't want the brother to see. That's why we don't close threads the minute the poster chooses "best answer" (which this poster did really quickly, which makes me wonder why they even really needed to ask, but that's another story). There is still insight to be found.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:44 AM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

We repeat ourselves when under stress, we repeat ourselves when under stress, we repeat ourselves when under stress, we repeat ourselves when under stress, we repeat
posted by micayetoca at 8:11 AM on July 1, 2008

It's a way of reinforcing the answer. I also suspect that a lot of people just like to answer questions, but I'm no psychologist.
posted by quin at 8:12 AM on July 1, 2008

You folks might have something with this "people like to answer questions" angle.
posted by yhbc at 8:22 AM on July 1, 2008

Yeah, I hate it when people respond to Ask Metafilter questions by answering the question. Also when they respond by not answering the question. And when they give answers I don't agree with. And when the bright sun makes me sneeze.
posted by box at 8:23 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think when people post to AskMe they are often literally asking all of MetaFilter rather than looking for a single correct answer. Many problems are too complex to permit a single answer anyway, but beyond that, people often seem to be interested in polling the community in order to get a sense of what is "normal" and what is unusual or extreme. This is especially true for questions that touch on interpersonal relationships, because it's easy to lose perspective when your emotions overwhelm you. In that case, the number of people who agree with one or another opinion serves as an imperfect but useful indicator of where that opinion resides on the bell-curve of sanity. Somehow, seeing an answer repeated is a more powerful aid in this than merely seeing an answer with several favorites. It takes more effort to type an answer than to click a plus sign, so the fact that many people take that time can be another useful indicator of that answer's usefulness.

In other words, a multiplicity of answers is actually useful because it helps posters distinguish good answers from mediocre or bad ones. This can be especially important in cases where the poster has lost perspective or lacks a sense of what is "normal."

Also, people like to answer questions. Even if they're only contributing 1% of new information, they will still feel like their contribution is valuable.
posted by prefpara at 8:25 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

John Milton knew something about this topic:

So Satan spake, and him Beelzebub
Thus answer'd. Leader of those Armies bright,
Which but th' Onmipotent none could have foyld,
If once they hear that voyce, thir liveliest pledge
Of hope in fears and dangers, heard so oft [ 275 ]
In worst extreams, and on the perilous edge
Of battel when it rag'd, in all assaults
Thir surest signal, they will soon resume
New courage and revive, though now they lye
Groveling and prostrate on yon Lake of Fire, [ 280 ]
As we erewhile, astounded and amaz'd,
No wonder, fall'n such a pernicious highth.

The gist of this passage is that fallen angels/demons like answering questions. These results may be extrapolatable to non-angelic/non-demonic sentient entities (sentieties, I calls 'em). You may not have considered that before now, so I offer this advice in a spirit of humility and charity.
posted by Mister_A at 8:35 AM on July 1, 2008

There's a typo in there–omnipotent is spelled incorrectly. I stole the passage from a Dartmouth site, what can you expect?
posted by Mister_A at 8:37 AM on July 1, 2008

People like answering questions.
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on July 1, 2008

I'm not sure if it's so much that people like to answer questions as much as it's the online typed equivalent of people talking just because they like hearing the sound of their own voice.
posted by The Gooch at 8:56 AM on July 1, 2008

Questions like being answered by people. It's a social thing, like apes grooming each other.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:59 AM on July 1, 2008

What?
posted by Mister_A at 9:01 AM on July 1, 2008

Do people like answering questions?
posted by kosem at 9:02 AM on July 1, 2008

I wonder how many people post after the "best answer" has been marked because they suspect any silliness now won't be noticed, since there aren't any serious answer-ers left in the thread to flag them.
posted by nomisxid at 9:02 AM on July 1, 2008

Do people like answering questions?

We should post this to Ask.
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on July 1, 2008

Actually, Donald Runsfeld addressed this issue:

"As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know."

So, yes, people like to ask questions; others like answering them -- all in the pusuit of knowing unknown things.
posted by ericb at 9:07 AM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

Jesus people! You answered my question! Enough!

Granted, I was really surprised at how....passionate the answers were.

Anyway...my sister is on the phone with Apple Care right now, doing the repairs herself, so it's fine. Forget it.
posted by hellojed at 9:09 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Granted, I was really surprised at how....passionate the answers were.

I'm surprised you're surprised. Your own profile has a comment about Metafilter that I think well captures our spirit:

I started liking metafilter because it's different. It's not a rule-by-the-people utopia that all other sites are, no, it's a rule-by-an-iron-fist kind of thing, where you'd better not be an ass or you'll get banned. Things get deleted, there are standards. I like this.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:25 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Jesus people! You answered my question! Enough!

Actually, no one is talking specifically about your problem, this discussion is about something else. And really, you shouldn't be surprised about passionate responses when you ask whether you should violate someone's express wishes about their property.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:35 AM on July 1, 2008

I'm surprised you're surprised.

Well, then I guess I should have never asked in the first place.
posted by hellojed at 9:36 AM on July 1, 2008

Here's some good advice: if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.
posted by box at 9:41 AM on July 1, 2008

phunniemee, shouldn't this thread be in AskMe?
posted by clockzero at 9:43 AM on July 1, 2008

Dear AskMe,

My girlfriend is constantly putting me on the spot with questions like "does my bum look big in this?" and I don't know whether to answer with the honest truth or a white lie.

Recently, somebody on the internet said "Here's some good advice: if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question."

Is this good advice? Or should I try another indirect approach, like buying her a gym membership and a bunch of lingerie - four or five sizes too small for her - as an anniversary gift?
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:57 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Of hope in fears and dangers, heard so oft [ 275 ]

You know what I hate? I hate poetry books that print those fucking numbers next to every fifth or tenth line. How can you get caught up in the poetry when your eyes are constantly assaulted by those irrelevant distractions? And it's all so academics can easily refer to line numbers without having to count. LET THE POETRY RUN FREE!
posted by languagehat at 9:57 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

People like answering, "People like answering questions."
posted by klangklangston at 9:58 AM on July 1, 2008

People like to answer questions. And if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer. Plus it rebalances their MeFi dollars-to-donuts ratio.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 10:00 AM on July 1, 2008

Ask me. Only answer you'll ever need.
posted by kittyprecious at 10:02 AM on July 1, 2008

Wait, what was the question again? How do I find my sister's porn?
posted by electroboy at 10:04 AM on July 1, 2008

I was really surprised at how....passionate the answers were.

This surprises me, too. Your own question said: "Hell, when I broght it up she all but snapped at me as if to say 'How dare you dirty my computer with your filthy hands, you don't know what you're doing.'" A little passionate, no? People reflected that in their answers.
posted by chinston at 10:18 AM on July 1, 2008

In all seriousness, I actually like seeing a clear consensus when in the answers to a question I ask. If it's really a subject I don't know much of anything about, I find it helpful to see that two or eight of 37 people all agree. More importantly, I like it when they say why they agree so that I can know how seriously to take the opinion.

Also, I reckon it's the equivalent of 17 kids in a classroom all waving their hands to answer the teacher, just to make sure the teacher knows they know.
posted by mostlymartha at 10:31 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

A MetaTalk post about people answering questions is AskMe too much is pretty interesting coming from someone who's averaging like 5-6 answers per day.
posted by nanojath at 10:50 AM on July 1, 2008

Because, numbnuts, when you ask a question of thousands of people and only get one answer, you're entitled to go "yeh, sister, one random lass on the internet agreed with you, but nobody else, so gimme the Mac I WILL FIX IT", instead of "oh god, 50 people told me I was a moron, I've been a moron in this situation".
posted by bonaldi at 11:01 AM on July 1, 2008

Thanks, dad.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:04 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

You know what I hate? I hate poetry books that print those fucking numbers next to every fifth or tenth line. How can you get caught up in the poetry when your eyes are constantly assaulted by those irrelevant distractions? And it's all so academics can easily refer to line numbers without having to count. LET THE POETRY RUN FREE!

Even worse: footnotes or endnotes next to every fifth word. No matter how hard I try, I can't help but look at the note. It's always useless information, and it breaks up the flow of the narrative. I sit there flipping back and forth feeling like an idiot, yet totally powerless to stop because this NEXT note might actually enlighten me or enrich my experience of the text. Book... RUINED.
posted by prefpara at 11:08 AM on July 1, 2008

if you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question
No! NO! Don't listen to stupid box. Ask question. Ask! Want to answer question. NEED to answer question. Precious, precious question.
posted by joaquim at 11:20 AM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

mostlymartha is completely right here. When I ask a question that has a more-or-less finite list of correct answers, it is really reassuring to have the same or similar answers given a few times.

When it's one of these awful personal drama questions and everyone is saying "DTMFA", who cares? I'm not going to let you morons ruin my personal life–I'm perfectly capable of doing that myself.
posted by Mister_A at 11:22 AM on July 1, 2008

There are often distinctly different answers to a question that are hard to tell apart because they're expressed via semantically-overloaded homomorphs.

And people just like to answer questions using homomorphs.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:24 AM on July 1, 2008

I don't know man, homomorphs are too much the same, heteromorphs are too different... I like using homeomorphs, which are just kind of similar.
posted by Mister_A at 11:35 AM on July 1, 2008

Just because the person who asked the question marked an answer as "best answer" does not actually make it the best answer.
posted by caddis at 11:50 AM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Just because the person who asked the question marked an answer as "best answer" does not actually make it the best answer.
posted by phrontist at 12:05 PM on July 1, 2008

I have no opinion on this matter, but I felt it was extremely important that everyone understand that.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:08 PM on July 1, 2008

Can you clarify that, blue_beetle? I don't really care what you're getting at, but I enjoy it when you talk.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:12 PM on July 1, 2008

You know what I hate? I hate poetry books that print those fucking numbers next to every fifth or tenth line

I'd always assumed that was part of the poem, and that everyone was paying homage to every single poem written before that.

Let's try reading one without them...

*head esplodes*
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:19 PM on July 1, 2008

I'm typing!
I'm typing some more!
posted by Dizzy at 12:52 PM on July 1, 2008

Q: "Hey, what's the answer to this question?"

A: "It's this"
A: "It's that"
A: "It's this other thing"

Result: I don't know which thing it is.

Q: "Hey, what's the answer to this question?"

A: "It's this"
A: "It's that"
A: "I think it's that"
A: "Probably that, although maybe also this"
A: "It's that"
A: "It's this other thing"
A: "It's likely that"
A: "When this happened to me, it was that."

Result: I still don't know which thing it is, but I know the general audience believes that it's that.

In short, if lots of people give the same answer, it reinforces that answer.

and sometimes someone gives the same answer, but takes the time to add an additional point, or a justification or clarity, perhaps through a series of examples.
posted by davejay at 1:14 PM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Hi, I haven't bothered to read the other responses, but I just wanted to say that, in my experience, people like answering questions.

Hope this is helpful!
posted by ottereroticist at 1:22 PM on July 1, 2008

Yup. Ravelry has agree/disagree buttons, and I've gotten so used to them there that it drives me nuts on MeFi sometimes that they aren't here too.

agree (1)
posted by Metroid Baby at 1:55 PM on July 1, 2008 [1 favorite]

Favouriting answers can be a form of agreement. That's what I often do when I agree with a comment and don't have anything new to bring to the thread.
posted by loiseau at 2:20 PM on July 1, 2008 [5 favorites]

I forgot the question from reading all these responses, but I'm pretty sure it's because people like to answer questions. Probably makes them feel important.
posted by RussHy at 2:21 PM on July 1, 2008

Because Majority Opinion = Truth. Duh.
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:03 PM on July 1, 2008

Favouriting answers can be a form of agreement.

Gah, such obvious fishing for favourites, amirite?

(don't bother answering if you agree & have nothing else to add. you know what to do)
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:18 PM on July 1, 2008

(don't bother answering if you agree & have nothing else to add. you know what to do)

nthing Ubu's answer, he really nails it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:26 PM on July 1, 2008

I didn't read any of the other responses in this thread (too long) but it's probably because people like to answer questions.

And also because people probably don't read any of the answers to the question because it's too long.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 4:29 PM on July 1, 2008

I just want to wish you both good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by staggernation at 5:11 PM on July 1, 2008

Case in point
posted by The Gooch at 6:04 PM on July 1, 2008

Parroting opinion answers that I agree with makes more sense to me than not doing so. My pet peeve is people parroting factual answers that have adequate citation.
posted by BrotherCaine at 7:35 PM on July 1, 2008

Gah, such obvious fishing for favourites, amirite?

Amyouwrong. Are you serious? Do you favorite those answers? Does anybody, unless they expand the knowledge base already expressed or somehow rise above the other answers?
posted by caddis at 7:45 PM on July 1, 2008

The reason I do it is because I like to drop down an answer that has the IKKYU2 STAMP OF APPROVAL on it.

Most of you already know that that means the answer is gospel truth and you can take it to the grave with you.

Also because I like answering questions.

And drinking margaritas. I like that too.
posted by ikkyu2 at 8:25 PM on July 1, 2008 [2 favorites]

I like the AgreePony idea. But then can we have degrees of Agrees? Like "I agree a whole lot" or "I agree somewhat"? Also something that flashes. Not enough things flash on this site. Oh, and a midi playing in the background!
posted by turgid dahlia at 9:57 PM on July 1, 2008

Here is the site, replete with flashing flashy things, that you have long sought, turgid dahlia.
posted by Mister_A at 7:21 AM on July 2, 2008

OMG I CAN DO ANYTHING AT ZOMBO.COM
posted by turgid dahlia at 3:27 PM on July 2, 2008

I didn't answer the question about the mac because it would have just been reinforcing what was already said. May be I should have. I might have liked it.
posted by pointilist at 12:06 AM on July 3, 2008