Backstabbing is not conducive to intellectual discourse June 27, 2008 7:43 PM Subscribe
Malor - your arguments have to stand on their own merits without bringing other people's names up.
Malor I realise this is going to be difficult for you, but you have to try to make your economic arguments stand on their own merits without bringing other people's names up.
Several people emailed me about your comments in this thread.
Friday night / Saturday AM, Mrs Mutant & I doing the weekend dinner / drinks / movie thing, I hadn't seen the thread. Nor participated.
But, I find it telling that Malor can't make one of his points stand on it's own merits without bringing my name into it.
For several weeks if not months now I've been using 'Mondo Meta' to expunge Malor from the Metafilter experience. Why?
Well, simply put, I've been turned onto his bullshit not only by my negative experience here, but also by emails, tips and advise from folks from other sites.
But let's first discuss his behaviour on Metafilter, as it pertains to the thread I've linked, as well as other threads involving finance that I've participated in:
1) Too much hand waving. Malor doesn't know what he's trying to say even when he finally does say it. No mastery or even basic knowledge of finance or economics. And we know this because
2) Malor rarely cites source, except perhaps for a few 'blogs. But to be totally clear, brutally honest about the complete lack of intellectual rigour in his positions - Malor never cites any finance books. Malor doesn't cite any academic journals to back up his posts. He can't as these posts are his opinions only. But while Malor can't cite source he manages to post lots and lots of words. And words he doesn't understand because we know
3) Malor makes stuff up, using finance & economic words he clearly doesn't understand in an attempt to obfuscate or otherwise elevate his argument. When asked for an explanation he ignores the questions because he can't clarify. He just doesn't know as he made it all up. And when pushed too hard to answer questions
4) Malor resorts to personal attacks. Since Malor can't argue the point, nor cite his sources or use words masterfully, he resorts to personal attacks. Time and time again. Hardly indicative of deep thinking on or of the topic. Nor, I might add, a strong intellect.
Most critically to my decision to block - I was emailed links from other sites where Malor pulls the same shit, from folks that apparently also have had enough of his crap. So I could see this wasn't just me, it wasn't just Metafilter. So I decided it wasn't a good use of my time to debate a wannabe internet economist.
Yes, a wannabe.
Especially a wannabe internet economist that doesn't want to learn, that argues only to win, one that debates like this QUOTE:Malor, I know you feel very passionate about this issue but what you're saying isn't grounded in reality. It goes against decades of economic research and empirical data.
Malor: Yep. And I'm mostly right, too, and they're mostly wrong. We're falling off a f*cking cliff and it's your vaunted decades of research that led us there.
Ok. In a curious perversion of Ralph Waldo Emerson's "knowledge is power", we see Malor's corollary: I'm not only ignorant, I'm right and everyone else is wrong.
Here's another interesting post where folks on this other site complain about Malor's repeated practice of claiming to be an expert, an expert apparently on multiple and wide ranging topics, based on what he's read off the web :
"I'm not going to bite, Malor. I've seen you do this to other people in other threads because you like to argue. And you like to win arguments. I really don't care that much. I was simply trying to help the original poster. I don't know that much about Ruby. But I also don't claim to be an expert based on what I've read on the web. I can only offer my personal experience. I'm not intense. I just find it odious when someone tries to turn someone away from a product, technology, idea without knowing anything about the subject beside what they've read second-hand."
Other folks have clearly had enough of Malor's bullshit.
I could go on and on, referencing Metafilter as well as other sites but why bother? That site alone has multiple examples of Malor's bullshit, and it's not the only site that he posts on, not the only site where folks emailed me warning me of his extreme behaviour.
But back to this post.
Malor has brought my name up on Metafilter multiple times in a derogatory manner, explaining to folks what he perceives to be my character deficiencies, although he has never met me and has declined multiple opportunities to discuss our differences off line.
Malor feels this is appropriate behaviour, making such uninformed and personal attacks while commenting on unrelated matters. This evening, in an FPP I hadn't even commented in, he did it once again.
This must stop.
Malor, I've asked you in threads to stop misquoting me. But you persist.
Malor I've asked you several times to stop the personal comments but you persist.
Malor I've emailed you multiple times asking you to stop the unrelated personal attacks in threads. But you persist.
And now Malor, once again you drag my name into threads that I'm not even participating in.
Classy.
Malor, take any uninformed, extreme, lunatic position you'd like on finance or economics.
But going forward, I must now ask you publicly to leave my name out of your comments. Make your arguments stand on their own merits.
Malor I realise this is going to be difficult for you, but you have to try to make your economic arguments stand on their own merits without bringing other people's names up.
Several people emailed me about your comments in this thread.
Friday night / Saturday AM, Mrs Mutant & I doing the weekend dinner / drinks / movie thing, I hadn't seen the thread. Nor participated.
But, I find it telling that Malor can't make one of his points stand on it's own merits without bringing my name into it.
For several weeks if not months now I've been using 'Mondo Meta' to expunge Malor from the Metafilter experience. Why?
Well, simply put, I've been turned onto his bullshit not only by my negative experience here, but also by emails, tips and advise from folks from other sites.
But let's first discuss his behaviour on Metafilter, as it pertains to the thread I've linked, as well as other threads involving finance that I've participated in:
1) Too much hand waving. Malor doesn't know what he's trying to say even when he finally does say it. No mastery or even basic knowledge of finance or economics. And we know this because
2) Malor rarely cites source, except perhaps for a few 'blogs. But to be totally clear, brutally honest about the complete lack of intellectual rigour in his positions - Malor never cites any finance books. Malor doesn't cite any academic journals to back up his posts. He can't as these posts are his opinions only. But while Malor can't cite source he manages to post lots and lots of words. And words he doesn't understand because we know
3) Malor makes stuff up, using finance & economic words he clearly doesn't understand in an attempt to obfuscate or otherwise elevate his argument. When asked for an explanation he ignores the questions because he can't clarify. He just doesn't know as he made it all up. And when pushed too hard to answer questions
4) Malor resorts to personal attacks. Since Malor can't argue the point, nor cite his sources or use words masterfully, he resorts to personal attacks. Time and time again. Hardly indicative of deep thinking on or of the topic. Nor, I might add, a strong intellect.
Most critically to my decision to block - I was emailed links from other sites where Malor pulls the same shit, from folks that apparently also have had enough of his crap. So I could see this wasn't just me, it wasn't just Metafilter. So I decided it wasn't a good use of my time to debate a wannabe internet economist.
Yes, a wannabe.
Especially a wannabe internet economist that doesn't want to learn, that argues only to win, one that debates like this QUOTE:Malor, I know you feel very passionate about this issue but what you're saying isn't grounded in reality. It goes against decades of economic research and empirical data.
Malor: Yep. And I'm mostly right, too, and they're mostly wrong. We're falling off a f*cking cliff and it's your vaunted decades of research that led us there.
Ok. In a curious perversion of Ralph Waldo Emerson's "knowledge is power", we see Malor's corollary: I'm not only ignorant, I'm right and everyone else is wrong.
Here's another interesting post where folks on this other site complain about Malor's repeated practice of claiming to be an expert, an expert apparently on multiple and wide ranging topics, based on what he's read off the web :
"I'm not going to bite, Malor. I've seen you do this to other people in other threads because you like to argue. And you like to win arguments. I really don't care that much. I was simply trying to help the original poster. I don't know that much about Ruby. But I also don't claim to be an expert based on what I've read on the web. I can only offer my personal experience. I'm not intense. I just find it odious when someone tries to turn someone away from a product, technology, idea without knowing anything about the subject beside what they've read second-hand."
Other folks have clearly had enough of Malor's bullshit.
I could go on and on, referencing Metafilter as well as other sites but why bother? That site alone has multiple examples of Malor's bullshit, and it's not the only site that he posts on, not the only site where folks emailed me warning me of his extreme behaviour.
But back to this post.
Malor has brought my name up on Metafilter multiple times in a derogatory manner, explaining to folks what he perceives to be my character deficiencies, although he has never met me and has declined multiple opportunities to discuss our differences off line.
Malor feels this is appropriate behaviour, making such uninformed and personal attacks while commenting on unrelated matters. This evening, in an FPP I hadn't even commented in, he did it once again.
This must stop.
Malor, I've asked you in threads to stop misquoting me. But you persist.
Malor I've asked you several times to stop the personal comments but you persist.
Malor I've emailed you multiple times asking you to stop the unrelated personal attacks in threads. But you persist.
And now Malor, once again you drag my name into threads that I'm not even participating in.
Classy.
Malor, take any uninformed, extreme, lunatic position you'd like on finance or economics.
But going forward, I must now ask you publicly to leave my name out of your comments. Make your arguments stand on their own merits.
Woah.
Note to self: do not attract Mutant's ire.
posted by Forktine at 7:55 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Note to self: do not attract Mutant's ire.
posted by Forktine at 7:55 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
I'm not even going to begin to read that whole thing, because, as I am sure he would tell me, my penis must not be nearly large enough to begin to compare it to Mutant's.
However, I am looking for capital to quietly establish a popping corn credit derivative market before the competition heats up too much. MeMail for info.
posted by Super Hans at 7:55 PM on June 27, 2008
I'm not even going to begin to read that whole thing, because, as I am sure he would tell me, my penis must not be nearly large enough to begin to compare it to Mutant's.
However, I am looking for capital to quietly establish a popping corn credit derivative market before the competition heats up too much. MeMail for info.
posted by Super Hans at 7:55 PM on June 27, 2008
Do I smell a buddy movie in the works?
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:57 PM on June 27, 2008 [26 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 7:57 PM on June 27, 2008 [26 favorites]
*corners lawn chair and pitchfork markets*
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 7:59 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 7:59 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Poor mods. And on Friday night, no less.
Wait. Wait. What if there are no mods around?!
posted by 2or3whiskeysodas at 8:01 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wait. Wait. What if there are no mods around?!
posted by 2or3whiskeysodas at 8:01 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Malor is the Lindsay Lohan of Metafilter Economics.
He'll steal your coat foo.
posted by Stynxno at 8:04 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
He'll steal your coat foo.
posted by Stynxno at 8:04 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Taking a cheap shot at someone who isn't even participating in the thread does seem pretty low.
posted by Class Goat at 8:04 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by Class Goat at 8:04 PM on June 27, 2008
But, really, Mutant's got a good point. Malor is kind of an ass when it comes to his monday morning quarterbacking when it comes to the financial markets. The fact that his view points are heavily supported here and given a lot of RAH RAH RAH talk from people who know even less. He reminds me of a lot of presidents from the Dominican Republic who would make up numbers to make it appear like they know what they're doing but, really, they don't. It's all smoke and mirrors with little substance.
Those people belong on Ask.me. Not the blue.
posted by Stynxno at 8:07 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
Those people belong on Ask.me. Not the blue.
posted by Stynxno at 8:07 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
I could go on and on, referencing Metafilter as well as other sites but why bother?
Whatever happened on other sites shouldn't be brought to Metafilter. You should stick to Malor's behavior on this site, because MetaTalk is about this site.
The fact that you're bringing this other drama here hurts your case. Acursory look at your links of Malor's behavior on this site makes you look hypersensitive along with Malor's immaturity.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:07 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
Whatever happened on other sites shouldn't be brought to Metafilter. You should stick to Malor's behavior on this site, because MetaTalk is about this site.
The fact that you're bringing this other drama here hurts your case. Acursory look at your links of Malor's behavior on this site makes you look hypersensitive along with Malor's immaturity.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:07 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
Oh and also . . . Malor, God of primal darkness. As thou has decreed so have I done. The hands of fate have doomed this man. Thy will is done. MALOR I SUMMON YOU !!!!
posted by nola at 8:09 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by nola at 8:09 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
Come on dude, it's the internet. Just ignore him. I mean seriously, was it worth the time away from hanging out with your wife to type ANOTHER Metatalk post about this? Do you seriously think you can make this dude stop? His name is MALOR for christ's sake. What is the return on investment for you in spending time on this?
posted by spicynuts at 8:09 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by spicynuts at 8:09 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why would anyone give a shit about their internet moniker being quoted? Seriously Mutant, both you guys come off as pretty learned to a financially illiterate schmuck like me.
posted by docpops at 8:11 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by docpops at 8:11 PM on June 27, 2008
Holy shit.
posted by puke & cry at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by puke & cry at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2008
I swear I was just kidding when I called for a steel cage match between Mutant and Malor in this comment. I didn't actually want one.
two men enter, one man leaves
posted by Justinian at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2008
two men enter, one man leaves
posted by Justinian at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2008
Wow. I have to admit I was feeling a little deprived in the call-out arena - but you pulled out the planet buster on this one! Warn a person, so they can get to the bunker! It's hard enough to deal with the fact that you've stripped away the atmosphere without all of these incessant earthquakes to deal with too.
The escape craft leaves in 10 minutes - I suggest everyone evacuate the planet while they can.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:14 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
The escape craft leaves in 10 minutes - I suggest everyone evacuate the planet while they can.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:14 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
I just want to state for the record that I fully support the eventual winner of this catfight, and would like to join him and other members of the angry mob in kicking the loser ruthlessly while he is down.
posted by Krrrlson at 8:14 PM on June 27, 2008 [12 favorites]
posted by Krrrlson at 8:14 PM on June 27, 2008 [12 favorites]
Drama!
posted by Drama Penguin at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Drama Penguin at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Seriously Mutant, both you guys come off as pretty learned to a financially illiterate schmuck like me.
I think that's kind of the point. Mutant knows what he's talking about, Malor doesn't. See: Steven C. Den Beste for another example.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think that's kind of the point. Mutant knows what he's talking about, Malor doesn't. See: Steven C. Den Beste for another example.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
It is kind of shitty to slag Mutant like that. And while I'm not sure if I agree with Mutant all the time (I don't have any kind of finance or economics background whatsoever, so it is hard to be critical of his well-supported comments and posts), I'm not sure if I've ever seen him being snarky, and his posts are a hell of a lot better than the typical "Yay! Peak Oil is here! Fuck the suburbanites! I'm a alternative bitch"-type posts and comments.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:16 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by KokuRyu at 8:16 PM on June 27, 2008
Malor told me to put all my money into bonds!
and then he touched my penis
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:17 PM on June 27, 2008 [13 favorites]
and then he touched my penis
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 8:17 PM on June 27, 2008 [13 favorites]
Well, Malor does like a little hyperbole. But I think most of us can handle that.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:18 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by kuujjuarapik at 8:18 PM on June 27, 2008
Please make your way in a calm and orderly fashion towards the exits. They are clearly marked and located at the end of each aisle. If you need assistance, please press the attendant button. Thank you and God help us all.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:20 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by The Light Fantastic at 8:20 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Im calling out Josiah for looking like BEAT from Jet Grind Radio but refusing to dress up like him for Halloween!
posted by Dreamghost at 8:21 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by Dreamghost at 8:21 PM on June 27, 2008
When we do a podcast on favorite Metatalk threads, I get this one.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:22 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:22 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs it is, then!!!!}}}}}}}}}}}
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 8:23 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 8:23 PM on June 27, 2008
This is one of the best in a while. A friday night of being designated bargoer-picker-upper just got a whole lot better.
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:27 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:27 PM on June 27, 2008
Greg Nog - your continued blithesomeness will only pique my approbation.
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:33 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:33 PM on June 27, 2008
dobby doo doo doo doo, doowaaaaa
Sometimes we squabble 'bout the 'conomy
But that's just how we wanna be
There's nobody I'd rather
Get libeled by other than you
I wrote you a callout
Poured my heart all out
So maybe my baby, you'd see...
The better part of Malor is me! *ding!*
Mutant and Malor, right after Perfect Strangers, on TGIF!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 8:36 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Sometimes we squabble 'bout the 'conomy
But that's just how we wanna be
There's nobody I'd rather
Get libeled by other than you
I wrote you a callout
Poured my heart all out
So maybe my baby, you'd see...
The better part of Malor is me! *ding!*
Mutant and Malor, right after Perfect Strangers, on TGIF!
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 8:36 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
I don't think this will actually help, but you have a gigantic chip on your shoulder, Mutant; you come across like some sort of wounded intellectual who has been slighted, nay, your very being impugned! by someone who you consider quite below the academy to which you are so dearly associated!
Malor has a different viewpoint. Austrian School economics, as I am quite sure you know, has a fairly sizeable if non-mainstream following, and is the source and basis for a lot of what Malor says.
It is gaining a bit of traction as problems build in various economic systems. Here is George Soros writing, and a video of a recent address to LSE. You can do a quick tour of Google to see what Jim Rogers has to say. Both of them have double-digit billion net worths -- Rogers appears often on Bloomberg. There's also Warren Buffett: "If our current account deficit keeps running at present levels, the dollar I think is almost certain to be worth less five to ten years from now compared to other major currencies." (Toronto Star)
Those are just three guys, but I have a bit of faith in their ability to understand finance. There are many others, who also do well.
Regardless, rejecting mainstream economics is a valid viewpoint. I sincerely believe that Malor is of the good-faith opinion that financial speculation is, in fact, an entirely non-productive occupation which drains money from the otherwise productive rest of the economy. Hence, you are attacked, because you form part of that sector.
You can't make him stop talking, nor should you try.
posted by Super Hans at 8:36 PM on June 27, 2008 [23 favorites]
Malor has a different viewpoint. Austrian School economics, as I am quite sure you know, has a fairly sizeable if non-mainstream following, and is the source and basis for a lot of what Malor says.
It is gaining a bit of traction as problems build in various economic systems. Here is George Soros writing, and a video of a recent address to LSE. You can do a quick tour of Google to see what Jim Rogers has to say. Both of them have double-digit billion net worths -- Rogers appears often on Bloomberg. There's also Warren Buffett: "If our current account deficit keeps running at present levels, the dollar I think is almost certain to be worth less five to ten years from now compared to other major currencies." (Toronto Star)
Those are just three guys, but I have a bit of faith in their ability to understand finance. There are many others, who also do well.
Regardless, rejecting mainstream economics is a valid viewpoint. I sincerely believe that Malor is of the good-faith opinion that financial speculation is, in fact, an entirely non-productive occupation which drains money from the otherwise productive rest of the economy. Hence, you are attacked, because you form part of that sector.
You can't make him stop talking, nor should you try.
posted by Super Hans at 8:36 PM on June 27, 2008 [23 favorites]
Ok since Malor hasn't appeared yet and the suspense is killing me I will stand in and provide Malor's response.
OH YEAH???
posted by waraw at 8:37 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
OH YEAH???
posted by waraw at 8:37 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Please make your way in a calm and orderly fashion towards the exits. They are clearly marked and located at the end of each aisle. If you need assistance, please press the attendant button. Thank you and God help us all.
*Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard voice.*
This is the captain speaking: All hands, abandon ship! I repeat, all hands, abandon ship! This is not a drill! The USS Metafilter will auto-destruct in two minutes. All hands to the escape pods!
Serious aside: Didn't you quit, dude? Can't you refute him thusly, though the personal attacks are inappropriate. You could also refute with some of those photographs I saw of the Amsterdam meetup, becuase my thoughts were, "Wow, the banks actually let this dude work for them?"
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 8:42 PM on June 27, 2008
*Cpt. Jean-Luc Picard voice.*
This is the captain speaking: All hands, abandon ship! I repeat, all hands, abandon ship! This is not a drill! The USS Metafilter will auto-destruct in two minutes. All hands to the escape pods!
Serious aside: Didn't you quit, dude? Can't you refute him thusly, though the personal attacks are inappropriate. You could also refute with some of those photographs I saw of the Amsterdam meetup, becuase my thoughts were, "Wow, the banks actually let this dude work for them?"
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 8:42 PM on June 27, 2008
Can I have a nemesis, too?
posted by backseatpilot at 8:45 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by backseatpilot at 8:45 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
OK, raise your hand if you have any damn idea what's going on.
nobody?
posted by jbickers at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
nobody?
posted by jbickers at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
But going forward, I must now ask you publicly to leave my name out of your comments. Make your arguments stand on their own merits.
Look, this basically comes down to the fact that Malor is needling you, throwing out little digs, and you fell for it, getting angry and responding to him about this.
And demanding someone on the internet not use your alias makes you look ignorant, yet full of yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2008 [5 favorites]
Look, this basically comes down to the fact that Malor is needling you, throwing out little digs, and you fell for it, getting angry and responding to him about this.
And demanding someone on the internet not use your alias makes you look ignorant, yet full of yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:48 PM on June 27, 2008 [5 favorites]
Somebody touched a nerve I see
posted by yort at 8:51 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by yort at 8:51 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
okay, Super Hans had a good point. Furthermore, histrionics notwithstanding (and depsite my own fondness for a good slap-fight), here's what's wrong with this call-out:
Boiled down to its basics, its -
1. User A doesn't like User B's [whatever - it could be his (or her) username, argumentation style, self-proclaimed ideological bent, religion, gender, race, creed, color, or species - again, whatever], so he blocks him.
2. User B mentions User A in one of his comments.
3. User C tells User A about this, and User A. gets all upset.
BUZZ!!!! Sorry, you don't get to complain. Game over.
posted by yhbc at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Boiled down to its basics, its -
1. User A doesn't like User B's [whatever - it could be his (or her) username, argumentation style, self-proclaimed ideological bent, religion, gender, race, creed, color, or species - again, whatever], so he blocks him.
2. User B mentions User A in one of his comments.
3. User C tells User A about this, and User A. gets all upset.
BUZZ!!!! Sorry, you don't get to complain. Game over.
posted by yhbc at 8:52 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
So who started this land war in Asia?
posted by Sailormom at 8:54 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Sailormom at 8:54 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Uh, yeah, that's not good to bring up other members like that way.
I'm really happy about this thread because of this little gem from Stynxno:
He reminds me of a lot of presidents from the Dominican Republic who would make up numbers to make it appear like they know what they're doing but, really, they don't.
If there is some kind of Metatalk Insult Hall of Fame, that belongs in there. I'm totally going to use that next time I'm in an argument. No need to use SCIENCE!, just compare your adversary to a PRESIDENT FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.
The above remarks about Stynxno's comments are all meant in a good way. How do you pronounce your user name?
posted by marxchivist at 8:56 PM on June 27, 2008
I'm really happy about this thread because of this little gem from Stynxno:
He reminds me of a lot of presidents from the Dominican Republic who would make up numbers to make it appear like they know what they're doing but, really, they don't.
If there is some kind of Metatalk Insult Hall of Fame, that belongs in there. I'm totally going to use that next time I'm in an argument. No need to use SCIENCE!, just compare your adversary to a PRESIDENT FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.
The above remarks about Stynxno's comments are all meant in a good way. How do you pronounce your user name?
posted by marxchivist at 8:56 PM on June 27, 2008
Grrr. Argghh.
posted by Tenuki at 8:57 PM on June 27, 2008 [24 favorites]
posted by Tenuki at 8:57 PM on June 27, 2008 [24 favorites]
I don't know, I don't think Mutant is being all that over-sensitive. If someone was pointing out how much of a parasite I was in threads that I hadn't even shown up in, I'd probably be pretty irritated, too.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:58 PM on June 27, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:58 PM on June 27, 2008 [7 favorites]
I think it's generally accepted etiquette here that calling out someone in a thread they didn't actually poke their heads into is dirty pool and Mutant was in the wrong for doing it. However, so is referencing a user's non-MeFi identity to score points against them (besides which Ruby on Rails disputes are this decade's emacs/vi disputes and have a similar signal / noise ratio). I suggest a walk outside in the cool night air as the best solution to this problem.
Also, it's Dominican Presidents, plural. A lot of them, even.
posted by whir at 9:04 PM on June 27, 2008
Also, it's Dominican Presidents, plural. A lot of them, even.
posted by whir at 9:04 PM on June 27, 2008
I'm going to explain this so that everyone can just get along: Whenever you hear someone use some variant of the phrase "The Fed is printing too much money!", you can just skip over their entire comment. Don't bother reading it; you will only come out the other side that much dumber. People who actually know their shit will explain things in terms of credit expansion or monetary policy or any other terms that don't involve explanations of reality that are entirely untrue.
The great thing about this is that the Mises-wannabies are universally unable to say anything without using that phrase. We haven't cured cancer yet because the Fed is printing too much money. The Fed printed too much money and now I can't get an erection. My dog died because the Fed is printing too much money.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:06 PM on June 27, 2008 [11 favorites]
The great thing about this is that the Mises-wannabies are universally unable to say anything without using that phrase. We haven't cured cancer yet because the Fed is printing too much money. The Fed printed too much money and now I can't get an erection. My dog died because the Fed is printing too much money.
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:06 PM on June 27, 2008 [11 favorites]
The Fed printed too much money and now I can't get an erection.
How did you know why I can't get an erection?
posted by nola at 9:11 PM on June 27, 2008
How did you know why I can't get an erection?
posted by nola at 9:11 PM on June 27, 2008
Mutant said: "Several people emailed me about your comments in this thread. "
I clicked this link and the most surprising thing to me was that 37 people apparently read a comment that long.
posted by loiseau at 9:12 PM on June 27, 2008
I clicked this link and the most surprising thing to me was that 37 people apparently read a comment that long.
posted by loiseau at 9:12 PM on June 27, 2008
Apparently arguments are NOT down the hall on the left.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2008
Honestly, this seems a little overblown and I think whir hit the key etiquette points:
Malor, the invocation of absent users is and pretty much always has been considered eminently crappy behavior. Cut it out.
Mutant, it's kind of pushing the boundaries of Metatalk to haul in off-site behavior for a public argument about stuff here, much as I can understand whatever frustration you're feeling.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:17 PM on June 27, 2008
Malor, the invocation of absent users is and pretty much always has been considered eminently crappy behavior. Cut it out.
Mutant, it's kind of pushing the boundaries of Metatalk to haul in off-site behavior for a public argument about stuff here, much as I can understand whatever frustration you're feeling.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:17 PM on June 27, 2008
User B mentions User A in one of his comments.
Malor's comment in question is:
Guys like Mutant are going to be just fine. Folks that actually work for their living, instead of manipulating the outputs of others, are going to be utterly screwed.
A statement like that goes pretty far beyond the pale in my opinion. I had to go back and flag it in retrospect.
posted by nanojath at 9:17 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Malor's comment in question is:
Guys like Mutant are going to be just fine. Folks that actually work for their living, instead of manipulating the outputs of others, are going to be utterly screwed.
A statement like that goes pretty far beyond the pale in my opinion. I had to go back and flag it in retrospect.
posted by nanojath at 9:17 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
I say that if you killfile another user here that automatically disqualifies you from calling them out afterward. I mean, you didn't want to deal with them but then you call them out on metatalk? That's pretty drama queen. Make up your mind.
posted by puke & cry at 9:19 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by puke & cry at 9:19 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Can I bundle Mutant's and Malor's comments into CCOs[0] and get someone to rate them AAA for me? We can make a fortune!
[0] - collateralized comment observations
posted by ryoshu at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
[0] - collateralized comment observations
posted by ryoshu at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Well, Malor does like a little hyperbole.
A little? Malor is the Hubble Sphere of hyperbole. If Malor used any more hyperbole, it would collapse into a black hole and swallow the Earth and we'd blame it on the Large Hadron Collider. Malor is the Large Hadron Collider of hyperbole. He takes hyperbole showers in his hyperbolically-shaped shower. He sits on lots of saddles!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:24 PM on June 27, 2008 [11 favorites]
A little? Malor is the Hubble Sphere of hyperbole. If Malor used any more hyperbole, it would collapse into a black hole and swallow the Earth and we'd blame it on the Large Hadron Collider. Malor is the Large Hadron Collider of hyperbole. He takes hyperbole showers in his hyperbolically-shaped shower. He sits on lots of saddles!
posted by dirigibleman at 9:24 PM on June 27, 2008 [11 favorites]
How do you pronounce your user name?
stinks,no? in either a french or spanish accent
posted by Stynxno at 9:25 PM on June 27, 2008
stinks,no? in either a french or spanish accent
posted by Stynxno at 9:25 PM on June 27, 2008
More like Large Hardon Collider, am I right?
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:26 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
It's so nice of some of the resident jerks and hotheads who showed up here to make unmerited mentions of their MeFi pet pariahs in this thread just because they don't know any better.
Oh, settle down. We might as well just call everyone out in one thread. More efficient that way.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:29 PM on June 27, 2008
Oh, settle down. We might as well just call everyone out in one thread. More efficient that way.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 9:29 PM on June 27, 2008
*places future call on 500 tons of bulk popping corn*
Oh, peachy.
*starts churning butter*
posted by jonmc at 9:33 PM on June 27, 2008
Oh, peachy.
*starts churning butter*
posted by jonmc at 9:33 PM on June 27, 2008
Malor I realise this is going to be difficult for you, but you have to try to make your economic arguments stand on their own merits without bringing other people's names up.
...
2) Malor rarely cites source
:)
posted by Chuckles at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
...
2) Malor rarely cites source
:)
posted by Chuckles at 9:35 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
There should be a word for what happens to people when they read a couple of books on a subject and have that flash of insight that makes them think they can explain everything in the world through the lens of those books.
I went through that once with Heinlein and again with Godel, Escher and Bach. A LOT of people do that after reading Ayn Rand. There really should be a word for it.
posted by empath at 9:38 PM on June 27, 2008 [14 favorites]
I went through that once with Heinlein and again with Godel, Escher and Bach. A LOT of people do that after reading Ayn Rand. There really should be a word for it.
posted by empath at 9:38 PM on June 27, 2008 [14 favorites]
Mutant, I've learned a great deal from your posts here, and if I weren't so ignorant in the first place, I know I would have learned a great deal more than I actually did. I hope fervently nothing that has happened elsewhere on Metafilter, or that will happen here tonight will deter you from posting at least as lengthily in the future as I have become happily accustomed to over the last six months.
Earlier today I heard a commentator on NPR say that financial professionals all over the world have had trouble getting a good night's sleep this last week, and if you are indeed in London, I note that you posted this at 4:43 in the morning. Would it be out of line to wonder whether there might not be matters even more aggravating than Malor's comments on your mind this evening?
Despite reading many of your posts and comments, I don't have enough of a sense of the general thrust of what you've said here this year to say how they fit with what is happening in world financial systems right now.
Malor's pessimistic Jeremiads, on the other hand, however open to question his grasp of economic fundamentals may or may not be, are looking increasingly prophetic.
Don't you think?
posted by jamjam at 9:39 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Earlier today I heard a commentator on NPR say that financial professionals all over the world have had trouble getting a good night's sleep this last week, and if you are indeed in London, I note that you posted this at 4:43 in the morning. Would it be out of line to wonder whether there might not be matters even more aggravating than Malor's comments on your mind this evening?
Despite reading many of your posts and comments, I don't have enough of a sense of the general thrust of what you've said here this year to say how they fit with what is happening in world financial systems right now.
Malor's pessimistic Jeremiads, on the other hand, however open to question his grasp of economic fundamentals may or may not be, are looking increasingly prophetic.
Don't you think?
posted by jamjam at 9:39 PM on June 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
No need to use SCIENCE!, just compare your adversary to a PRESIDENT FROM THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.
Are you referring to the disastrous presidency of Hipólito Mejía, or was it the construction of the Columbus Lighthouse during Joaquín Balaguer's third term that pushed you over the top?
posted by lukemeister at 9:47 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Are you referring to the disastrous presidency of Hipólito Mejía, or was it the construction of the Columbus Lighthouse during Joaquín Balaguer's third term that pushed you over the top?
posted by lukemeister at 9:47 PM on June 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mutant while Malor was weirdly out of line throwing your name out there in that comment (I had a real WTF? moment reading it) calling attention to your cross site stalking was icky. Both of you should refrain in the future.
On another topic practically no one cites squat around here, Metafilter is going to be a pretty quick read if your only going to pay attention to cited comments.
posted by Mitheral at 9:51 PM on June 27, 2008
On another topic practically no one cites squat around here, Metafilter is going to be a pretty quick read if your only going to pay attention to cited comments.
posted by Mitheral at 9:51 PM on June 27, 2008
It's so nice of some of the resident jerks and hotheads who showed up here to make unmerited mentions of their MeFi pet pariahs in this thread just because they don't know any better.
Are you going to finish that sentence or what?
posted by nanojath at 9:52 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
Are you going to finish that sentence or what?
posted by nanojath at 9:52 PM on June 27, 2008 [4 favorites]
- Commenting confidently without basic knowledge: depressingly common, but not callout-worthy
- Failing to cite source: perfectly normal, not callout-worthy
- Making things up: should be called out in-thread, not callout-worthy
- Misquoting: more common than it should be, not callout-worthy
- Behaviour on another site: almost never relevant, certainly not callout-worthy
- Personal attacks in-thread: should be flagged, usually not callout-worthy
- Unprovoked personal attacks in other threads: certainly should be flagged (regardless of the merits of the rest of the comment) and, in serious cases, worth a callout.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 9:52 PM on June 27, 2008 [2 favorites]
Calling out and making a snide comment about another user that isn't even in a thread you are participating in is a pretty awful thing to do, and I understand Mutant's frustration with that.
But on the other hand, calling it out on MetaTalk in this grandstanding way is a pretty awful way to try solving this problem. Behind the scenes, we mods were aware of this situation and had already contacted Malor to let him know the behavior wasn't something we tolerate and to cut it out and not do it in the future.
I'm afraid that a big public thread like this isn't going to accomplish much but raise the level of spite and drama between you both, and potentially serve as a guide to future scuffles on the site between members and I don't want to encourage that.
I'm closing this thread up now. Malor, don't pull stuff like this again, and Mutant I ask that you be a bit more patient while we work things out.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:59 PM on June 27, 2008 [6 favorites]
But on the other hand, calling it out on MetaTalk in this grandstanding way is a pretty awful way to try solving this problem. Behind the scenes, we mods were aware of this situation and had already contacted Malor to let him know the behavior wasn't something we tolerate and to cut it out and not do it in the future.
I'm afraid that a big public thread like this isn't going to accomplish much but raise the level of spite and drama between you both, and potentially serve as a guide to future scuffles on the site between members and I don't want to encourage that.
I'm closing this thread up now. Malor, don't pull stuff like this again, and Mutant I ask that you be a bit more patient while we work things out.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:59 PM on June 27, 2008 [6 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
*places future call on 500 tons of bulk popping corn*
posted by loquacious at 7:49 PM on June 27, 2008 [38 favorites]