please don't kill the thread while i'm replying

September 4, 2007 6:15 AM

i imagine that kelvin-helmholtz is so long because there's some kind of balance related to radiation pressure (vaguely vaguely like eddington limit?) but i may be way off - never thought about it before. if it is radiative pressure (or anything related to being hot) that holds things up that means that you'll still get an initial collapse and ignition. so i think initial "inner" thermal equilibrium will be much faster, but final steady state could take a long time. and why on earth (or sun) is this chatfilter? delete the stupid answers, not the question. i realise it's not one of your valued "what stupid piece of crap for my kitchen should i waste money on today because i can't cook for shit but boy i know how to use my credit card like a pro?" questions, but it still has a valid answer.
posted by andrew cooke to Etiquette/Policy at 6:15 AM (95 comments total)

What the fuck, man?
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:19 AM on September 4, 2007 [6 favorites]

I wouldn't say it was chatfilter, but it is an unanswerable hypothetical, which are also deleted.
posted by smackfu at 6:25 AM on September 4, 2007

What if the solar system was, like, just a subatomic particle in our galaxy which was an atom in, like, a fly who was sitting on a piece of poo that just came out of a cow that was on a planet that was, like, in a solar system in a galaxy that was like an atom in another fly and... ummm.

Anybody got doritos?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:28 AM on September 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

From the FAQ entry on chatfilter, linked in the deletion reason:

Chatty open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of Ask Metafilter and push other questions off the front page. If you want to avoid having your question flagged and possibly removed, here are some things to avoid.

...

- Open-ended unanswerable hypothetical questions like "What if Hitler had never been born?" or made up "what if" science questions.

I realize personal working definitions of chatfilter vary, but that's been like that, and link in reference on previous similar deletions, for a long time now.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:29 AM on September 4, 2007

i realise it's not one of your valued "what stupid piece of crap for my kitchen should i waste money on today because i can't cook for shit but boy i know how to use my credit card like a pro?" questions, but it still has a valid answer.

And it involves a totally made up universe which means that the answer to the question is really of almost zero usefulness to anyone but the OP, if even him. andrew cooke, I'm really really happy to see you back around here, but did you forget how the place works, or were you just hoping it had become more palatable to you since you've been away?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:33 AM on September 4, 2007

Yeah, I thought it should be deleted too. Even if I did give an answer. I gave it expecting it to be deleted.
posted by edd at 6:37 AM on September 4, 2007

I think that question quickly reached the Chandrasekhar limit.
posted by vacapinta at 6:48 AM on September 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

There's nothing I love better than black hole jokes. Except maybe beer.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:50 AM on September 4, 2007

The problem wasn't that it was chatfilter, the problem is that the question is just to difficult to incorporate into Metafilter's folksonomy. If we had a proper hierarchical system, we could've handled answered the question and stored it for future reference.
posted by mullacc at 6:57 AM on September 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

handled
posted by mullacc at 6:59 AM on September 4, 2007

Nintendo could have it least framed it with the "I'm writing a book about..." loophole.
posted by sourwookie at 7:08 AM on September 4, 2007

This is not the AskMetafilter you are looking for.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:12 AM on September 4, 2007

That question is the very definition of chat filter.

Who would win in a fight: superman, or the people that live on this sun sized planet?
posted by chunking express at 7:14 AM on September 4, 2007

Well, If the mass of people were great enough to ignite a fusion reaction, and that fusion reaction were yellow, then Superman.

If that fusion reaction were red, then Superman just may be fucked.
posted by sourwookie at 7:18 AM on September 4, 2007 [5 favorites]

Not hypothetical. This actually happened at a record-setting key party I heard about back in '92. The early techno soundtrack created an harmonic oscillation in the center of mass that set off a chain reaction in the gravitational field around the swimming pool, causing everyone to go nova simultaneously. The only downside was that a wicked gas cloud was created in the aftermath. It was as if millions of queefs sighed out in ecstasy and were suddenly silenced.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:26 AM on September 4, 2007 [7 favorites]

I don't know what was unanswerable or hypothetical about that question.
posted by poppo at 7:27 AM on September 4, 2007

MeTa is the enemy of Planet Human.
posted by hermitosis at 7:28 AM on September 4, 2007

In other news, the color of AskMetafilter is apparently Axolotl, can we have one as our new mascot?

Sorry andrew, the way this question was phrased sucked, and that triggered how it got answered by the Mefites and its quick deletion.
posted by onalark at 7:37 AM on September 4, 2007 [2 favorites]

This is some grade-A crazy, right here.
posted by GuyZero at 7:38 AM on September 4, 2007

Is there some sort of weird flash mob at work here, or is there some special prize for incoherence that I am oblivious to?

The question is indefensible. It's too short to even be sanely hypothetical, and instead sounds like something you might hear someone shout in their sleep. And you can bet that most of the people drawn into this callout are here to see if they can parse from the comments exactly what the Grandma Moses you are talking about.

I don't know what to think of your crack about AskMe. Sounds to me like someone didn't get a hot breakfast.
posted by hermitosis at 7:41 AM on September 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

There's nothing I love better than black hole jokes.

So you're saying porn could help solve some black / white race relation issues as well then?
posted by public at 7:45 AM on September 4, 2007

Set the controls for the heart of the snark.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:48 AM on September 4, 2007

The question was hypothetical, but not unanswerable.

I learned something from the responses, and it pisses me off that mix tapes are okay but this isn't.

Yeah, yeah... there are guidelines, there aren't hard and fast rules, this is a community, no one cares what I think, et cetera.

andrew, nice to see you back here.
posted by Kwantsar at 7:51 AM on September 4, 2007

Do people have enough hydrogen in them for a human-star to ignite? It seems you'd need at least more hydrogen than Jupiter for a star to ignite and have fusion reactions — Jupiter is said t be just under the cusp of having enough of the stuff to become a star itself.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:56 AM on September 4, 2007

Also, questions of this kind can be saved if they seek a specific answer. For example, see my addition below:

What would happen with a planet the size of the Sun made entirely out of living human beings when one guy in the center gets an erection. Your answer should address: (a) boundary lubricant failure; (b) denaturation and viscosity of proteins in a high temperature and high pressure environment; and (c) the Anglo-German Naval Agreement of 1935. Show your work. 100pts.
posted by Pastabagel at 7:59 AM on September 4, 2007 [8 favorites]

With all the hydrogen peroxide blonds in LA, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. They don't call 'em "stars" for nothing.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:59 AM on September 4, 2007

Katamari Damagee
posted by yerfatma at 8:03 AM on September 4, 2007

Blazecock: it's more about the total mass giving a high enough temperature at the core to kick things off than the precise makeup. I'd guess there's enough hydrogen in the make-up of a person for some reaction if the mass is high enough, although it'd be a very peculiar elemental make-up for a star.

Jupiter's quite a long way off having enough mass to get a reaction going.
posted by edd at 8:06 AM on September 4, 2007

and another crap callout where the OP fucking disappears after making it. awesome. I'm gonna go back to doing something useful, like seeing what happens if I stick my dick in an electric fan while it's running.
posted by shmegegge at 8:21 AM on September 4, 2007

Can we please have a chat.metafilter.com?
posted by srboisvert at 8:23 AM on September 4, 2007

Can we please have a chat.metafilter.com?

chatfilter.com is taken, though other domains seem to be open. Someone could buy say "metachatfilter.com" and set up something. Otherwise, it's probably not going to ever happen, which is just fine IMO.

Otherwise http://metachat.org/ is the unoffica chat filter, though I recommend reading it a bit to see how crazy/fun chatfilter can get.

I'm gonna go back to doing something useful, like seeing what happens if I stick my dick in an electric fan while it's running.

Image tag, we miss you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:32 AM on September 4, 2007

nothing good happens. nothing good at all. I should have asked mefi about it first.
posted by shmegegge at 8:34 AM on September 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

It bothers me too that question with a simple, direct, and accurate answer -- It would ignite -- gets deleted.

And it involves a totally made up universe which means that the answer to the question is really of almost zero usefulness to anyone but the OP

This is false. It would be useful to Neal Asher, who likes to put planet-sized spheroidal animals in his Polity universe. And if it convinced him to stop with that shit already, it would also be a service to everyone else.

Yes, I know that Dragon is, what, a few tens of kilometers across? Still.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:00 AM on September 4, 2007

"I don't know what was unanswerable or hypothetical about that question."

It's perfectly answerable, but it is hypothetical. It's chatfilter to the degree to which it is (not merely seems like) an entirely useless question that someone almost randomly came up with for no more reason than that they were looking for weird, esoteric things to think of which they then wanted to share with other people.

Is that what this question was?

I think that it either is exactly that, or at least that the questioner did a shitty job of providing any context for the question such that it's not merely something that he pulled out of his ass.

I suspect that many people can't figure out how the latter could be possible, but actually in a hard science-fiction context, it's a very interesting and reasonable thing to consider the limits on a cosmically-sized living creature.

However, assuming that is the context of the asker's question, the actual question reveals a huge naivete about such matters. And the "human flesh" part, unfortunately, seems to take it right out of this category and places it back in the "pulled out of his ass" category.

I hope that explains both why so many people have a problem with the question and also why a few people think it's legitimate.

Furthermore, notwithstanding what the FAQ says about chatfilter, the test really isn't whether something is hypothetical. Assuming the word is being used correctly, then "hypothetical" is just a characteristic that is often associated with chatfilter, although a very large portion of acceptable questions are themselves hypothetical. ("If I refuse to pay my rent because my landlord hasn't repaired my toilet, will I be evicted?" is hypothetical.) "Useless to anyone but the asker" is also an unfortunate test that jessamyn describes—many acceptable questions aren't really useful to anyone but the asker. Again, both the hypothetical objection and the uselessness objection are really just ways of pointing to the "pulled out of his ass" objectionable nature of the question.

If I have to explain why a "pulled out of his ass" question is a bad question, then it's probably not worth the effort.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:07 AM on September 4, 2007

the test really isn't whether something is hypothetical

I always thought the test was whether the question was trying to solve a problem. And yes, many non-deleted posts fail that test.
posted by GuyZero at 9:18 AM on September 4, 2007

there's like a whole other planet out the back of nintendo's question: snotr, for one. get back here and metafilter still hasn't imploded. comforting.
posted by de at 9:21 AM on September 4, 2007

So the general consensus for the answer is that it would collapse in on itself at which point fusion would initiate it into a solar mass?

And based on the scale, we are talking about a couple of hundred trillion people, right? And there would have to be an atmosphere for them to breath, however briefly...

I think I want the sound of this event as a ringtone. I'd use it for when work called.
posted by quin at 9:31 AM on September 4, 2007 [2 favorites]

Way off a couple of hundred trillion. I'd estimate nearer 10²⁸ people.
posted by edd at 9:41 AM on September 4, 2007

I think I want the sound of this event as a ringtone.

That'll come in handy when Lucas does the next edit of the original trilogy.

OBI-WAN: i felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in ter—oh, wait, I think I've got it on my iPhone actually.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:47 AM on September 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

What if the solar system was, like, just a subatomic particle in our galaxy which was an atom in, like, a fly who was sitting on a piece of poo that just came out of a cow that was on a planet that was, like, in a solar system in a galaxy that was like an atom in another fly and... ummm.

I just read a short story that was essentially about this, called The Girl in the Golden Atom by Ray Cummings which was published in All-Story Weekly on March 15, 1919.
posted by sciurus at 9:51 AM on September 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

What if Hitler had never been born?
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:56 AM on September 4, 2007

The Producers would have been totally lame.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:59 AM on September 4, 2007 [3 favorites]

I'm writing a book in which every atom in the universe is replaced by guys named Adam. What sort of physical properties would exist on a planet the size of the Sun, made entirely out of guys named Adam?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:59 AM on September 4, 2007

Does Adam have a swimmer's physique?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:08 AM on September 4, 2007

A walrus is a swimmer.
posted by breezeway at 10:10 AM on September 4, 2007

Depends. If all Adamic matter is identical, the result would obviously depend on the properties of that matter. So what are the properties of Adam? Based on the proposed existance of a planet formed of Adams, it seems clear you are suggesting that he is capable of forming Adamic bonds. But the result of such a formation would depend on what the bonding mechanism was. Are the Adams holding hands? Feet? Wouldn't the hands get sweaty after awhile. What about restless leg syndrome? I'm thinking it wouldn't be a very stable configuration, 'cause Adam is notoriously lazy. Unless maybe the Adams were all somehow congenitally conjoined? The other problem I see, from a moral standpoint, is that if everything was made up of Adam, Adam would be forced to eat himself.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:15 AM on September 4, 2007

That question needed a little more Masonic symbolism before the Lizards who seekritly run Metafilter as a brainwashing system would love it. Was that what you were up to, A.C.?
posted by davy at 10:33 AM on September 4, 2007

Is the swallow unladen?
posted by [@I][:+:][@I] at 11:02 AM on September 4, 2007

How many severed human heads would it take to fill Giants Stadium?
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:10 AM on September 4, 2007

Not enough heads, IMHO.
posted by Dagobert at 11:13 AM on September 4, 2007

Are we counting the ones under the field already?
posted by smackfu at 11:34 AM on September 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

made up "what if" science questions.

Can the quotes be moved to around "science"?
posted by cillit bang at 12:08 PM on September 4, 2007

Actually, in that phrase, I think each word deserves its own set of "finger quotes."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:10 PM on September 4, 2007

Sun-size planet, is there anything you can't do?
posted by Mister_A at 12:17 PM on September 4, 2007

davy spelled "secretly" wrong...
posted by Mister_A at 12:18 PM on September 4, 2007

*opens thread*
*blinks furiously*
*closes thread*
posted by loquacious at 1:04 PM on September 4, 2007

what happens if I stick my dick in an electric fan while it's running.

Now that's *my* kind of askmefi question.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 1:35 PM on September 4, 2007

You should see a doctor about that runny dick.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:36 PM on September 4, 2007

Behind every successful absurdist is a sick gnu.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 1:45 PM on September 4, 2007

Poor gnu!
posted by soundofsuburbia at 1:53 PM on September 4, 2007

sorry, been busy.

it didn't seem that crazy a question to me. i guess i have sat through too many "wacky fun" astronomy/physics exams.

i had just written the reply i included in the text of this post and so was a bit frustrated that what was both (i) a valid reply and (ii) an interesting physical discussion was stopped because others had posted "ha ha" answers. i am sorely, sorely tempted to piss in threads about pepper grinders, but don't, so it's annoying to see interesting threads being deleted because other's don't respect the guidelines (if the thread had only had "serious" answers would it still have been axed? i doubt it).

but anyway, sorry for the noise here - i was frustrated and in a rush (to get to work, which has been busy, hence no reply until now), but i do understand why it was deleted.
posted by andrew cooke at 2:02 PM on September 4, 2007

but i do understand why it was deleted.

Then our work here is done...

Or Is It???
posted by Sparx at 2:26 PM on September 4, 2007

Since when is a Caucus race ever done?
posted by loquacious at 2:29 PM on September 4, 2007

I usually try to avoid reading pastabagel's comments because I am watching my carb intake, but she is just too good. No wonder she has all the favorites.
posted by vronsky at 3:15 PM on September 4, 2007

i imagine that kelvin-helmholtz your callout is so long because there's some kind of balance related to radiation we all have pressure

There ya go.
posted by davejay at 7:10 PM on September 4, 2007

How many severed human heads would it take to fill Giants Stadium?

How many holes would it take to fill the Albert Hall?
posted by ludwig_van at 8:39 PM on September 4, 2007

A planet ineffably crowded with humans?
posted by Tube at 10:09 PM on September 4, 2007

I've been wondering why the Nazis stopped at cannibalism, e.g., why they burned most of the Jews they killed instead of using them for food. They could have, for example, fed the human meat to the captives and "guest workers" they had working in their aircraft and tank factories and greatly increased productivity. For that matter they could have told their troops on the Russian front, where hunger in winter was a problem, that it was pork, horse, or even dog. Why did the Nazis they let all that meat go to waste?

My "S.O." however thinks that would not be a good use of AskMeFi. Please advise.
posted by davy at 10:25 PM on September 4, 2007

Please advise

DTMFA.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:15 PM on September 4, 2007

What's "DTMFA"?
posted by davy at 11:18 PM on September 4, 2007

How many severed human heads would it take to fill Giants Stadium?

I need to know for a... special project. I can't tell you why.
posted by Many bubbles at 11:31 PM on September 4, 2007

B.P. thinks you should abandon your significant other, davy.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:11 AM on September 5, 2007

What's "DTMFA"?

A Googleable string of five letters.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:04 AM on September 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

and i just coined the acronym GSOFL. is there a word for self-referential acronyms (like gnu or gsofl)?
posted by andrew cooke at 6:08 AM on September 5, 2007

AGSOFL! AGSOFL! CTHULHU FTAGN!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:10 AM on September 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

"gnu" is a recursive acronym; I'd say "GSOFL" is merely self-referential, like "TLA" - i.e., it does not contain itself.

(My favourite is still "TWAIN".)
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:17 AM on September 5, 2007

> What's "DTMFA"?
> A Googleable string of five letters.
> posted by jessamyn

MLS FUBAR
LOL
posted by D.C. at 6:22 AM on September 5, 2007

"A Googleable string of five letters."

Okay, I googled "DTMFA." But how does that fit this?

Another topic I hesitate to AskMeFi about is my hunch that the ideological/social tendencies ("neocons" and the "Christian Right") currently vocalizing in the Republican Party (U.S.) are the product of very deep entryism by Schachtmanites to slowly develop a revolutionary situation in America and the world. Electing a rabid chimp President would be part of a Trotskyite grand strategy to discredit the U.S. system and motivate people to change it.
posted by davy at 6:47 AM on September 5, 2007

DTMFA is a clear indicator that the poster hangs out on too many relationship advice boards.
posted by smackfu at 6:48 AM on September 5, 2007

I think your anti-AskMe instincts are sound, davy, and you deserve a sticker for listening to them.
posted by jacalata at 6:56 AM on September 5, 2007

Don't nobody get confused now: I'm not asking about my relationship, I'm soliciting further advice about what is or is not a suitable use of AskMetafilter (which is what this thread's supposed to be about).

On preview I see I've got one anwer already. Anybody else want to weigh in? And/or does anybody want to explain the reasons behind his/her/its answer? Like, are these "chatfilter" or do people simply hate discussing cannibalism and Trotskyism? (Or both, or neither?)
posted by davy at 7:05 AM on September 5, 2007

davy, I don't think that would be a good use of AskMe. I refer to the chatfilter part of the faq.

"...if your motivation for asking the question is 'I would like to participate in a discussion about X,' then you shouldn't be doing it in AskMe. If your motivation is 'I would like others to explain X to me,' then you're probably OK."
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:10 AM on September 5, 2007

Damnit, I ran out of favorites again. I hope you don't mind if I flag a few comments in this thread as fantastic.
posted by tehloki at 7:49 AM on September 5, 2007 [1 favorite]

Okay, I googled "DTMFA." But how does that fit this?

It's relationship advice. It relates to the SO part of the comment.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:59 AM on September 5, 2007

I think this was the canonical column.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 8:01 AM on September 5, 2007

About the Nazis not utilizing biped flesh: one of Germany's biggest problems was that they had to use their manpower on the Russian front instead of in the coal mines, and coal was needed to make steel. So the Nazis wound up "recruiting" people from the Occupied Territories to dig coal, even though they did not have enough food to feed these miners and consequently had to keep going back to get replacements for those who dropped dead. Mindful that one economic rationale for the mass murder of Jews (and captured Soviet soldiers, etc.) was that there wasn't enough to food to feed everybody adequately and "naturally" Aryan Germans had to come first, and that the Nazis were such evil motherfuckers anyway, I don't understand why they didn't get more out of their slave laborers by feeding them the meat of their other victims. In many parts of the Nazi empire conquered people were so hungry that they'd have jumped at the chance to dig coal for Hitler for a few daily hunks of "cat" or "horse" meat; I picture hungry Ukrainians lining up begging for these jobs with as much fervor as "wetbacks" now scuttle across the Rio Grande. Instead word got out that the Nazis starved their coal miners and worked them to death (then burned or buried the bodies), which further reduced productivity and drastically limited the recruitment pool.

So it's not just "a discussion about"; I'd like to see if there is reasonable answer for why the Nazis thought nothing of bayonetting babies for fun but missed out on a useful food source. What the question boils down to is 'Were they not quite that evil -- or were they also stupid?'

My info on the Nazi war economy comes from The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze.
posted by davy at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2007

davy: no.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:26 AM on September 5, 2007

DTMFA:

Do The Mutha Fuckin' Algebra
posted by ozomatli at 10:23 AM on September 5, 2007

Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian?

DTMFA: Don't think Mein Führer approved.
posted by team lowkey at 2:11 PM on September 5, 2007

"Wasn't Hitler a vegetarian?"

This guy says no.

And anyway, the issue wasn't whether Hitler was a vegetarian but what kind of slave-driver he was. I think he was the kind who'd screw the German people by letting perfectly good meat go to waste.
posted by davy at 2:51 PM on September 5, 2007

Oh, and for those who point out that the Jews and Soviet prisoners had been starving too: the same as with any other animal you're using for meat, if you can't make steak you make stew, and if you can't do that you make sausage.
posted by davy at 3:01 PM on September 5, 2007

Were they also stupid?

They took over a country that was leading the world in atomic research and either murdered or drove away most of their smartest people. *Then* they went to war. So I think the answer is, obviously, yes, the Nazis were very, very stupid.
posted by meehawl at 3:24 PM on September 5, 2007

davy are you being "controversial" again?
posted by dersins at 3:26 PM on September 5, 2007

davy, I'm sure there's lots of other boards not only open to, but extremely eager to discuss your question with you.

If you're asking if your question is suitable for askmefi, the obvious answer is: No.

How is that obvious, you ask? Because a moderator has said so above and thats how this place runs. The guidelines are just that, not hard-and-fast-rules. Likewise, there are all sorts of other things not (yet) codified in the guidelines.

This isn't "find the loopholes in the legal code" because its not a constitutional democracy, its a benevolent dictatorship. Or, its a corporation and jessamyn has spoken on behalf of the CEO. Now, get back to work!
posted by vacapinta at 3:50 PM on September 5, 2007

vacapinta, you're way behind. I'm no longer arguing that it's fit for AskMe; I do understand that a Deputy Despot has already ruled on the matter.

What your problem is I don't know.

As for other venues to discuss that subject, I know of one or two offhand and I'm sure there are more. After I get back up from my nap I'll check out proper venues, and I might even inform y'all of where it is okay to discuss such things. I would however shy away from a "board" specifically set up to concentrate on just such issues, as those "boards" are likely to be populated by weirdos. You know, the kind of people who play WoW or Second Life and go see that Transformers movie I've read something about in passing.

Now bug off while I prepare my question on Fatimid theology.
posted by davy at 4:10 PM on September 5, 2007