Weird semi-self link July 17, 2006 2:32 PM Subscribe
In this projects post, josephtate claims to work at Grupthink. Thats fine. But then in this metafilter post, the poster rabble lists josephtate as "co-worker". Someone can check my math, but doesnt that make it a self-link?
Yes, unless josephtate and/or rabble have more than one job.
posted by docgonzo at 2:37 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by docgonzo at 2:37 PM on July 17, 2006
once we get bored here, can we go back and make a call-out thread about josephtate's original self-link?
posted by soma lkzx at 2:40 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by soma lkzx at 2:40 PM on July 17, 2006
vacapinta, you rabble-rouser.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:41 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:41 PM on July 17, 2006
I would say: yes.
posted by bob sarabia at 2:42 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 2:42 PM on July 17, 2006
*waits for ban-hammer gifs*
*lack of outrage saunters in*
posted by mattbucher at 2:57 PM on July 17, 2006
*lack of outrage saunters in*
posted by mattbucher at 2:57 PM on July 17, 2006
or they aren't actually co-workers.
There are a few people who link to me as a "co-worker", but we aren't actually co-workers. Not anymore, anyway. We did row longboats together for a time.
posted by raedyn at 2:59 PM on July 17, 2006
There are a few people who link to me as a "co-worker", but we aren't actually co-workers. Not anymore, anyway. We did row longboats together for a time.
posted by raedyn at 2:59 PM on July 17, 2006
Yeah it felt like a self-link before I'd even clicked on it so I'm not surprised. It's a shame because it's a really interesting site & I'd really like to discuss it. But rules is rules.
posted by scalefree at 3:03 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by scalefree at 3:03 PM on July 17, 2006
From the people who marked that thread as favorite, this guy works there too. So uh, watch out I guess.
posted by bob sarabia at 3:07 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 3:07 PM on July 17, 2006
bob sarabia: "josephtate's original self-link"? How was that a self-link? Honestly: not trying to be stupid (though I know I am fully capable of being stupid), but when I made that link, I was unemployed. You can impugn the current fpp all you want, but really, at the time, I heard about grupthink, thought it was cool, posted a link. Yes, grupthink is now "a project under development where I work" ("where I work meaning: "in the same building")--but I don't develop it, I don't work for it, period.
But I know too: as soon as you defend yourself, it's the same as tacitly admitting you have something to defend. Ho hum. Let the beatings begin.
posted by josephtate at 3:12 PM on July 17, 2006
But I know too: as soon as you defend yourself, it's the same as tacitly admitting you have something to defend. Ho hum. Let the beatings begin.
posted by josephtate at 3:12 PM on July 17, 2006
I guess it's possible you made that link in april and started working there in may, but I doubt it.
posted by bob sarabia at 3:24 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 3:24 PM on July 17, 2006
josephtate: you're saying you're employed at a different company altogether or just a different part of the same company?
posted by scalefree at 3:25 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by scalefree at 3:25 PM on July 17, 2006
From josephtate's Project post: "We launched the Grupthink beta in April 2006 and we're continually making—and open to hearing about—improvements."
The "we" in your Projects post is pretty misleading, then, don't you think? I mean, isn't that the whole point of Projects? To post work that you're personally involved in?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:27 PM on July 17, 2006
The "we" in your Projects post is pretty misleading, then, don't you think? I mean, isn't that the whole point of Projects? To post work that you're personally involved in?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:27 PM on July 17, 2006
Well, we might as well put it to use.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:33 PM on July 17, 2006 [2 favorites]
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 3:33 PM on July 17, 2006 [2 favorites]
I'm employed at a different company--I work for Modwest, Grupthink is an entirely separate company. That we, then Florence, yes, can be (and/or "is" depending on how you define "is") misleading. I see the developers on a daily basis, but only when I walk over into their office.
bob sarabia: I'll say again--I was unemployed from about mid-March until May 22. Sorry you doubt me. You can call my ex-wife who divorced me because of the unemployment period--oh! better yet, you can talk to my 2 1/2 year old daughter that I'm losing touch with because of the divorce caused by the unemployment. Oh! Even better... I'll stop there. If you want "proof", bob sarabia, contact me via my web site, josephtate.com.
posted by josephtate at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2006
bob sarabia: I'll say again--I was unemployed from about mid-March until May 22. Sorry you doubt me. You can call my ex-wife who divorced me because of the unemployment period--oh! better yet, you can talk to my 2 1/2 year old daughter that I'm losing touch with because of the divorce caused by the unemployment. Oh! Even better... I'll stop there. If you want "proof", bob sarabia, contact me via my web site, josephtate.com.
posted by josephtate at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2006
I mean, isn't that the whole point of Projects? To post work that you're personally involved in?
That's what I thought, but this Project is listed as being posted for a friend--did I miss a memo? (I'm asking seriously.)
posted by dobbs at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2006
That's what I thought, but this Project is listed as being posted for a friend--did I miss a memo? (I'm asking seriously.)
posted by dobbs at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2006
That we, then Florence, yes, can be (and/or "is" depending on how you define "is") misleading. I see the developers on a daily basis, but only when I walk over into their office.
Eh? Right on your Web site it says:
I'm also involved in grupthink.com, a new way to ask and explore open-ended questions with the rest of the world.
posted by Gator at 3:50 PM on July 17, 2006
Eh? Right on your Web site it says:
I'm also involved in grupthink.com, a new way to ask and explore open-ended questions with the rest of the world.
posted by Gator at 3:50 PM on July 17, 2006
dear josephtate,
I'm also involved in grupthink.com, a new way to ask and explore open-ended questions with the rest of the world.
and before the cock crows you will three times deny it-ly,
josephtate.com
posted by soma lkzx at 3:55 PM on July 17, 2006
I'm also involved in grupthink.com, a new way to ask and explore open-ended questions with the rest of the world.
and before the cock crows you will three times deny it-ly,
josephtate.com
posted by soma lkzx at 3:55 PM on July 17, 2006
Gator only beat me to that because he works for grupthink, too! Get him!
posted by soma lkzx at 3:57 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by soma lkzx at 3:57 PM on July 17, 2006
I think josephtate is saying that although he is "involved" with grupthink, he is not formally employed by or associated with the company. Either way, though, it sounds like a self-link.
posted by brain_drain at 4:01 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by brain_drain at 4:01 PM on July 17, 2006
depending on how you define "is"
Nothing so clearly spells out innocence like redefining "is."
posted by scottreynen at 4:03 PM on July 17, 2006
Nothing so clearly spells out innocence like redefining "is."
posted by scottreynen at 4:03 PM on July 17, 2006
Well, he is not so involved as to have included it on his resume, so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:05 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:05 PM on July 17, 2006
Unless someone finds a new smoking gun, it doesn't look like he works for them. I don't think it's a self-link, it's more of a "the-guys-I-hang-out-with link". Is there a rule against that?
posted by scalefree at 4:09 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by scalefree at 4:09 PM on July 17, 2006
No, whoring is fine. It's just pimping we frown on.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:12 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:12 PM on July 17, 2006
/kidding
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:12 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:12 PM on July 17, 2006
Unless someone finds a new smoking gun, it doesn't look like he works for them. I don't think it's a self-link, it's more of a "the-guys-I-hang-out-with link".
Yeah, but the main complaint is about the current FPP posted by rabble, and we don't know who he works for. Joseph?
posted by cillit bang at 4:15 PM on July 17, 2006
Yeah, but the main complaint is about the current FPP posted by rabble, and we don't know who he works for. Joseph?
posted by cillit bang at 4:15 PM on July 17, 2006
I'm involved in the site, maybe I should I write "I post to the site and care about how it fares in the world because I like it and the developers"? I wrote "involved" because it was shorter. I'm also "involved" in that the developers are in the next room and I can tell them my opinions face-to-face. But you could too with the same authority I have if you were in the same building.
But, and I just double-checked, I didn't post the fpp you're debating here, so I'm ducking out of this conversation for good. Anything I say will be parsed until some kind of wrong-doing has been uncovered. Have fun.
posted by josephtate at 4:15 PM on July 17, 2006
But, and I just double-checked, I didn't post the fpp you're debating here, so I'm ducking out of this conversation for good. Anything I say will be parsed until some kind of wrong-doing has been uncovered. Have fun.
posted by josephtate at 4:15 PM on July 17, 2006
You can call my ex-wife who divorced me because of the unemployment period--oh! better yet, you can talk to my 2 1/2 year old daughter that I'm losing touch with because of the divorce caused by the unemployment.
Dude...it's just the Internet. Sorry about your daughter, but go write her a letter or draw her a picture instead of steam-venting at strangers on the Internet.
posted by cribcage at 4:16 PM on July 17, 2006
Dude...it's just the Internet. Sorry about your daughter, but go write her a letter or draw her a picture instead of steam-venting at strangers on the Internet.
posted by cribcage at 4:16 PM on July 17, 2006
cribcage: instead of mocking a stranger's misfortune, why don't you get a free Blogger account and go... oh, you already do that.
And actually I do write my daughter letters and draw her pictures every day, you fucking asshole. Your comment was insensitive enough for me to hope you someday have to do the same, dude.
Steam-vents and all; the internet is beautiful to behold.
posted by josephtate at 4:38 PM on July 17, 2006
And actually I do write my daughter letters and draw her pictures every day, you fucking asshole. Your comment was insensitive enough for me to hope you someday have to do the same, dude.
Steam-vents and all; the internet is beautiful to behold.
posted by josephtate at 4:38 PM on July 17, 2006
Wow, you must be really riled up to misinterpret cribcage's comment as mockery, josephtate. Calm down a bit, seriously.
posted by boo_radley at 4:39 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by boo_radley at 4:39 PM on July 17, 2006
Well, dude, I hear what you're saying, but when you claim to be "involved" in a site, it's usually going to be taken to mean that you are, well, involved in the making or development of the site, especially in the context you've got it in, there.
I mean, if I posted on my blog that I'm "a Web developer, and here's my work site, and I'm also involved with MetaFilter.com," (because, you know, I post there and I care about its development and direction) I'd get dragged into MeTa faster than you can say "misrepresentation." (Partly because it really doesn't take much to get dragged into MeTa these days. Self-linking double post callout, anyone?)
posted by Gator at 4:41 PM on July 17, 2006
I mean, if I posted on my blog that I'm "a Web developer, and here's my work site, and I'm also involved with MetaFilter.com," (because, you know, I post there and I care about its development and direction) I'd get dragged into MeTa faster than you can say "misrepresentation." (Partly because it really doesn't take much to get dragged into MeTa these days. Self-linking double post callout, anyone?)
posted by Gator at 4:41 PM on July 17, 2006
Anything I say will be parsed until some kind of wrong-doing has been uncovered.
So there is wrong-doing to be uncovered? If not, you could just tell us whether or not rabble works at Grupthink, since you'reinvolved in the same building, no 'parsing' required.
posted by jack_mo at 4:44 PM on July 17, 2006
So there is wrong-doing to be uncovered? If not, you could just tell us whether or not rabble works at Grupthink, since you're
posted by jack_mo at 4:44 PM on July 17, 2006
Can someone please tell me if the grupthink FPP is a self-link or not?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:46 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:46 PM on July 17, 2006
We're still not sure. It seems reasonably certain that josephtate doesn't work for them, but we're still not sure about rabble & it was his post, we just got sidetracked with Joseph.
posted by scalefree at 4:52 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by scalefree at 4:52 PM on July 17, 2006
dear josephtate,
I hope you're doing okay. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune and I hope things improve for you.
But you need to chill.
posted by shmegegge at 4:57 PM on July 17, 2006
I hope you're doing okay. I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune and I hope things improve for you.
But you need to chill.
posted by shmegegge at 4:57 PM on July 17, 2006
contact me via my web site, josephtate.com
That's another self-link, iirc.
posted by dorisfromregopark at 4:57 PM on July 17, 2006
That's another self-link, iirc.
posted by dorisfromregopark at 4:57 PM on July 17, 2006
Can someone please tell me if the grupthink FPP is a self-link or not?
The temptation to ask that question at Grupthink is high.
That's another self-link, iirc.
Nah.
posted by jack_mo at 5:02 PM on July 17, 2006
The temptation to ask that question at Grupthink is high.
That's another self-link, iirc.
Nah.
posted by jack_mo at 5:02 PM on July 17, 2006
shmegegge, phew--so glad you stepped in. Thanks. Really, I feel better now that I've chilled out.
xoxo
posted by josephtate at 5:07 PM on July 17, 2006
xoxo
posted by josephtate at 5:07 PM on July 17, 2006
It's a little warm right now. Is it the heat outside? Or is there . . . perhaps . . . a flame alighting in this thread?
posted by brain_drain at 5:12 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by brain_drain at 5:12 PM on July 17, 2006
Glad to hear it!
So, does rubble work at Grupthink, or at Modwest with you?
posted by jack_mo at 5:12 PM on July 17, 2006
So, does rubble work at Grupthink, or at Modwest with you?
posted by jack_mo at 5:12 PM on July 17, 2006
so, if I'm understanding this, josephate works at modwest, which - according to the grupthink blog - hosts grupthink, hence the close relationship and "involved." but does rabble work at grupthink or modwest or somewhere else entirely?
posted by scottreynen at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by scottreynen at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
well, grupthink.com is registered to Modwest.com, the company that Joseph Tate works for.
Rabble works there too. His contact email goes to holotone.net. Someone named holotone is also a member at grupthink. Someone named holotone at last.fm also has the same website as rabble, so I'm guessing it's the same guy. You can look at his profile over at myspace. Apparently his name is cole. Search for holotone on google and find the url http://cmoeller.modwest.com/holotone/.
So I guess his name is Cole Moeller. I'm kinda stuck there, I can't find any solid proof that someone named cole moeller worked on grupthink. But anyway, they both work for the same company and the grupthink domain is registerd to that company so I still say selflink.
posted by bob sarabia at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
Rabble works there too. His contact email goes to holotone.net. Someone named holotone is also a member at grupthink. Someone named holotone at last.fm also has the same website as rabble, so I'm guessing it's the same guy. You can look at his profile over at myspace. Apparently his name is cole. Search for holotone on google and find the url http://cmoeller.modwest.com/holotone/.
So I guess his name is Cole Moeller. I'm kinda stuck there, I can't find any solid proof that someone named cole moeller worked on grupthink. But anyway, they both work for the same company and the grupthink domain is registerd to that company so I still say selflink.
posted by bob sarabia at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
or what he said. *sigh*
posted by bob sarabia at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 5:22 PM on July 17, 2006
Is there a rule against that?
My understanding is that the self-linking rule covers anything with which you have a personal involvement that might cloud your objective evaluation of the postworthiness of a site. If it's suddenly all about employment, I'll start posting my grandson's doodles. Hey, he's only two and very advanced for his age!
posted by languagehat at 5:26 PM on July 17, 2006
My understanding is that the self-linking rule covers anything with which you have a personal involvement that might cloud your objective evaluation of the postworthiness of a site. If it's suddenly all about employment, I'll start posting my grandson's doodles. Hey, he's only two and very advanced for his age!
posted by languagehat at 5:26 PM on July 17, 2006
We are all coworkers.
Let us filter together, comrade!
posted by blacklite at 5:33 PM on July 17, 2006
Let us filter together, comrade!
posted by blacklite at 5:33 PM on July 17, 2006
wow.. you folks sure take your detective work seriously. Yes, I do work for the same company as Joseph, although in a completely different function (web development vs. tehcnical support). Being what a small town web development community's nature tends to be, I also frequently cross paths with the Grupthink developers, and appreciate and enjoy the work they are doing - I even have a self-interest in seeing that their project succeeds, albeit not outside of the personal enjoyment I would get out of seeing a group of people whom I consider my friends doing their part to make the web just a bit more interesting of a place to waste my work hours away. However, rest assured, I am not employed by Grupthink, so you can go ahead and put the pitchforks and shovels away, and save all that valuable energy for a more worthwhile adversary.
And what the feck, bob sarabia, are you an ex KGB agent or something? Leave it to mefi to teach me to leave my computer for an hour...
posted by rabble at 5:35 PM on July 17, 2006
And what the feck, bob sarabia, are you an ex KGB agent or something? Leave it to mefi to teach me to leave my computer for an hour...
posted by rabble at 5:35 PM on July 17, 2006
Actually whois shows Grupthink as the owner. They registered via Modwest who is also a dotster reseller. The reason it mentions Modwest is because Grupthink is hosted here. A lot of Modwest' customers (both shared hosting and dedicated managed servers) register their domain names via our Dotster reseller program.
Disclaimer. I work for Modwest. I've also contracted to some of the Grupthink development, specifically database design and optimization. Joseph does work in the same building, but he doesn't have anything to do with GT. Neither does rabble, he's one of the support guys at Modwest. sersun is primarily responsible for the UI design and CSS you see on the site.
We've intentionally barred me, the software dev guys, and sersun from posting anything here since it is against the rules. I was initially hesitant to even sign up to put the facts straight because the last thing I need is a bunch of people getting on my case about this site too, but I felt it was unfair what was happening to Joseph.
Yes he works in the same building (joseph and rabble), no they're not involved directly, unless you call the occasional harassment to do testing for it being involved, in which case you can probably write in most of our userbase in that regard!
Joseph has no personal stake in grupthink, I certainly do, as does sersun, and others in the office. Joseph actually was very hesitant to even do any sort of writeup because he does work in the same office, but does no work at all, for Grupthink.
I hope this clears things up for everyone, and I hope this doesn't further taint this whole debate.
posted by gnukix at 5:38 PM on July 17, 2006
Disclaimer. I work for Modwest. I've also contracted to some of the Grupthink development, specifically database design and optimization. Joseph does work in the same building, but he doesn't have anything to do with GT. Neither does rabble, he's one of the support guys at Modwest. sersun is primarily responsible for the UI design and CSS you see on the site.
We've intentionally barred me, the software dev guys, and sersun from posting anything here since it is against the rules. I was initially hesitant to even sign up to put the facts straight because the last thing I need is a bunch of people getting on my case about this site too, but I felt it was unfair what was happening to Joseph.
Yes he works in the same building (joseph and rabble), no they're not involved directly, unless you call the occasional harassment to do testing for it being involved, in which case you can probably write in most of our userbase in that regard!
Joseph has no personal stake in grupthink, I certainly do, as does sersun, and others in the office. Joseph actually was very hesitant to even do any sort of writeup because he does work in the same office, but does no work at all, for Grupthink.
I hope this clears things up for everyone, and I hope this doesn't further taint this whole debate.
posted by gnukix at 5:38 PM on July 17, 2006
Damn your innocent hide, rabble. I was just about to point out the suspicious fact that you (holotone) polled Grupthink to find the best online radio station, and then you (cole) posted to an online radio station weblog about that poll, and... that very online radio station turns out to be the favourite of all Grupthinkers.
Is it safe to assume that everyone who has ever posted to, or about, Grupthink works in the same building? ;-)
posted by jack_mo at 5:45 PM on July 17, 2006
Is it safe to assume that everyone who has ever posted to, or about, Grupthink works in the same building? ;-)
posted by jack_mo at 5:45 PM on July 17, 2006
Well, that works for me. Although I don't know if josephtate needs to be posting projects for things he's not working on.
posted by bob sarabia at 5:46 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 5:46 PM on July 17, 2006
they're not involved directly, unless you call the occasional harassment to do testing for it being involved, - gnukix
I do. That's involvement, even if it isn't their employment. Anyone that has "a self-interest in seeing that their project succeeds" and the project is created by "a group of people whom I consider my friends" doesn't have an objective view of the project. They're too close. Languagehat points this out very tidily. It's not only to cull out projects that pay you to create them. If any non-paid web creations were allowed we'd have a lot of links to pictures of people's kids and grandkids because everyone thinks their own baby is the smartest/most beautiful/most fantastic.
The whole purpose of creating projects was to give people a place to post links to projects that there ARE close to, and if disinterested MeFites liked what they saw, then they could repost it to the mail page. Note that it is disinterested MeFites that were to make this call. Not the close personal friends or office buddies of the site creators.
posted by raedyn at 6:18 PM on July 17, 2006
I do. That's involvement, even if it isn't their employment. Anyone that has "a self-interest in seeing that their project succeeds" and the project is created by "a group of people whom I consider my friends" doesn't have an objective view of the project. They're too close. Languagehat points this out very tidily. It's not only to cull out projects that pay you to create them. If any non-paid web creations were allowed we'd have a lot of links to pictures of people's kids and grandkids because everyone thinks their own baby is the smartest/most beautiful/most fantastic.
The whole purpose of creating projects was to give people a place to post links to projects that there ARE close to, and if disinterested MeFites liked what they saw, then they could repost it to the mail page. Note that it is disinterested MeFites that were to make this call. Not the close personal friends or office buddies of the site creators.
posted by raedyn at 6:18 PM on July 17, 2006
*stirs tar, plucks feathers*
Such a waste of perfectly good tar and feathers this turned out to be...
posted by scottreynen at 6:27 PM on July 17, 2006
Such a waste of perfectly good tar and feathers this turned out to be...
posted by scottreynen at 6:27 PM on July 17, 2006
Are self-links ever okay on any part of the site?
Sometimes. It's against the rules to link to your own site or a site that you host or contribute to substantially
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:40 PM on July 17, 2006
Sometimes. It's against the rules to link to your own site or a site that you host or contribute to substantially
posted by anotherpanacea at 6:40 PM on July 17, 2006
I once hosted the fish that is now in quonsar's pants.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:41 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:41 PM on July 17, 2006
Could we get a ruling on this one?
posted by bob sarabia at 6:43 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 6:43 PM on July 17, 2006
The ambiguity, it burns! Make it stop!
posted by IshmaelGraves at 6:47 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by IshmaelGraves at 6:47 PM on July 17, 2006
You guys have a much cooler building than the one I work in. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who knows what a metafilter is in here.
posted by blacklite at 6:55 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by blacklite at 6:55 PM on July 17, 2006
I dunno, it seems innocuous to me.
Say I participated in this MePro, voted for it, and then clicked on the handy-dandy "Post This To MeFi" button.
From where I'm standing, that would be a violation of the subjective participant/compromised poster thing, wouldn't it?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:09 PM on July 17, 2006
Say I participated in this MePro, voted for it, and then clicked on the handy-dandy "Post This To MeFi" button.
From where I'm standing, that would be a violation of the subjective participant/compromised poster thing, wouldn't it?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:09 PM on July 17, 2006
I can't believe I've gotten sucked into this. It's like watching a train wreck. And yet...
Can I get a clarification on something?
Joseph has no personal stake in grupthink, I certainly do, as does sersun, and others in the office. Joseph actually was very hesitant to even do any sort of writeup because he does work in the same office, but does no work at all, for Grupthink.
That makes me think that this was written up on behalf of Grupthink. Am I mistaken, or do others read that the same way? Because if it's true, it's no different than a marketing firm posting about a client, but saying that they don't work for the company.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 7:09 PM on July 17, 2006
Can I get a clarification on something?
Joseph has no personal stake in grupthink, I certainly do, as does sersun, and others in the office. Joseph actually was very hesitant to even do any sort of writeup because he does work in the same office, but does no work at all, for Grupthink.
That makes me think that this was written up on behalf of Grupthink. Am I mistaken, or do others read that the same way? Because if it's true, it's no different than a marketing firm posting about a client, but saying that they don't work for the company.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 7:09 PM on July 17, 2006
(Note: I'm not saying he was paid for the writeup)
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 7:10 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 7:10 PM on July 17, 2006
Could we get a ruling on this one?
I think we'll leave it for now. Everyone who works at, with or near Grupthink probably needs to be super careful about even the appearance of self-linking, spammy comments, or anything else from here on in. I agree with raedyn on a personal level, this should have stopped with the Projects post, which should have been posted from someone who worked at Grupthink and not joseph.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:15 PM on July 17, 2006
I think we'll leave it for now. Everyone who works at, with or near Grupthink probably needs to be super careful about even the appearance of self-linking, spammy comments, or anything else from here on in. I agree with raedyn on a personal level, this should have stopped with the Projects post, which should have been posted from someone who worked at Grupthink and not joseph.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:15 PM on July 17, 2006
I'm honestly not sure what the story is on the Projects post personally. I just got involved because of everything that went on with this particular bit. He wasn't asked to do a writeup, he mentioned he wanted to, but was really hesitant because of this aspect. Writeup is probably a bad word to use, but it is what it is isn't it?
Now I'm really not sure how moderation works here at MeFi, but if testing does indeed constitute involvement then that discounts everyone who visits the site. It's still in beta, although, and there have been discussions about this internally, it only ever says so on the logo on the main page, and then in a pretty small font. Note, NOT my decision. I don't have anything to do with the UI at all. I don't know if the UI guy intends to change that or not, but it did come up during the 'pre release' meeting prior to the 1.2 rollout.
OK I'm beginning to droll on about stupid details that noone gives a crap about. Back to the tar and feathering.
posted by gnukix at 7:26 PM on July 17, 2006
Now I'm really not sure how moderation works here at MeFi, but if testing does indeed constitute involvement then that discounts everyone who visits the site. It's still in beta, although, and there have been discussions about this internally, it only ever says so on the logo on the main page, and then in a pretty small font. Note, NOT my decision. I don't have anything to do with the UI at all. I don't know if the UI guy intends to change that or not, but it did come up during the 'pre release' meeting prior to the 1.2 rollout.
OK I'm beginning to droll on about stupid details that noone gives a crap about. Back to the tar and feathering.
posted by gnukix at 7:26 PM on July 17, 2006
Ok, if the 3rd post about grupthink is from someone that works at Modwest, I think we'll have a problem.
posted by bob sarabia at 7:38 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 7:38 PM on July 17, 2006
Well, that works for me. Although I don't know if josephtate needs to be posting projects for things he's not working on.
Jesus Christ, bob, has this post not been painful enough for Mr. Tate? Ease up on the poor guy.
posted by nanojath at 8:42 PM on July 17, 2006
Jesus Christ, bob, has this post not been painful enough for Mr. Tate? Ease up on the poor guy.
posted by nanojath at 8:42 PM on July 17, 2006
Is anyone else as amused by the name of the organization in question as me?
And, LH, youse is a Grampa? Holee Chit!
posted by mwhybark at 9:21 PM on July 17, 2006
And, LH, youse is a Grampa? Holee Chit!
posted by mwhybark at 9:21 PM on July 17, 2006
I even have a self-interest in seeing that their project succeeds
And he works at the same company?
And this wasn't a self-link?
Puh-lease. raedyn's right; it's an obvious violation - worth a week in the tarpits, at least.
posted by mediareport at 9:30 PM on July 17, 2006
And he works at the same company?
And this wasn't a self-link?
Puh-lease. raedyn's right; it's an obvious violation - worth a week in the tarpits, at least.
posted by mediareport at 9:30 PM on July 17, 2006
Sorry, misunderstood the work connection, but raedyn's still right.
posted by mediareport at 9:34 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by mediareport at 9:34 PM on July 17, 2006
Wow, what's with all the pedantic legalism? Looks like shit, smells like shit, tastes like shit, um...maybe it's a chocolate souffle & we should serve it up!
Grupthink also operates as a time-machine: once you login, hours tend to vanish into the ether.
*gags* - oh, yeh, real people write like that; not marketing hacks.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:43 PM on July 17, 2006
Grupthink also operates as a time-machine: once you login, hours tend to vanish into the ether.
*gags* - oh, yeh, real people write like that; not marketing hacks.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:43 PM on July 17, 2006
So assuming we believe gnukix, this FPP is being permitted to remain because it only violates the spirit, and not the letter, of the rule against self-link FPPs.
posted by cribcage at 9:54 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by cribcage at 9:54 PM on July 17, 2006
I'm still kinda puzzled by this. It looks like most of the people involved in grupthink work for the same company, the company that hosts the site. They are also the people that developed the site. But neither of the two people that posted to the front page worked on it? Including the guy that posted it as his project?
So either this guy posted to the front page then made a project post when he had no part in the development, or he posted a project that he worked on and posted it to the front page too. Seems like either/or to me.
posted by bob sarabia at 9:57 PM on July 17, 2006
So either this guy posted to the front page then made a project post when he had no part in the development, or he posted a project that he worked on and posted it to the front page too. Seems like either/or to me.
posted by bob sarabia at 9:57 PM on July 17, 2006
It's a weird'n. I say delete both posts but don't ban. Then again, I'm made of Jell-O. The kind with a fish inside.
posted by dobbs at 10:30 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by dobbs at 10:30 PM on July 17, 2006
hey, what a coincidence...somebody seems to have added an external link to grupthink's website from the largely unrelated groupthink wikipedia entry (nice tipoff, blue_beetle)...erm...the link was added on 18th July 06 as far as I can tell...erm...well, fuck me dead if that isn't today! I wonder what this means?
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:42 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by UbuRoivas at 10:42 PM on July 17, 2006
well, I emailed matt and the posts aren't going anywhere. So I guess I'll drop it now. I'll be watching for the next grupthink spam though.
posted by bob sarabia at 11:08 PM on July 17, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 11:08 PM on July 17, 2006
I'd like someone to spam for my new web 2.0 project, GröpeThink. plz. All our members are intimately involved in the erection and growth of the site, and we're really excited about the whole thing. Really excited.
posted by taz at 11:57 PM on July 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by taz at 11:57 PM on July 17, 2006 [1 favorite]
I didn't see the last few hours of messages here. It definitely looks like some weird behavior and people jumping through a whole lot of hoops to try and justify the post which in the end, isn't that hot of a post (and really, and update on something a few months old, it's like you guys are trying too hard).
I removed the post and suspect we won't see the site linked here again.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:54 AM on July 18, 2006
I removed the post and suspect we won't see the site linked here again.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:54 AM on July 18, 2006
Sometimes I think the rabidly fanatical way in which we have to make absolutely certain a post has nothing whatsoever to do with ourselves is a bit... well, stupid.
There are YouTube posts of kittens on the frontpage. And PepsiBlue posts about upcoming movies that everyone knows about already. Why, if something is sufficiently interesting, can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?
I've always been under the impression that the point of the no-self-link policy was to prevent self-promotion, riding pageclicks on the coattails of MeFi's popularity. But if there's nothing to gain, why should it matter if you're somehow attached to the post in some arcane way?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:11 AM on July 18, 2006
There are YouTube posts of kittens on the frontpage. And PepsiBlue posts about upcoming movies that everyone knows about already. Why, if something is sufficiently interesting, can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?
I've always been under the impression that the point of the no-self-link policy was to prevent self-promotion, riding pageclicks on the coattails of MeFi's popularity. But if there's nothing to gain, why should it matter if you're somehow attached to the post in some arcane way?
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:11 AM on July 18, 2006
No, you don't get it. The point is not to keep people from profiting, the point is to try to make sure that things get posted because disinterested observers think they're good enough to interest MeFi, not because you think your buddy or the guy who works down the hall or your grandson does really neat stuff.
can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?
No, they're not supposed to. If it's good enough, somebody else will post about it.
I don't understand how this thread got sidetracked into a stupid argument about employment details. It's not about jobs, it's about personal involvement.
posted by languagehat at 5:45 AM on July 18, 2006
can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?
No, they're not supposed to. If it's good enough, somebody else will post about it.
I don't understand how this thread got sidetracked into a stupid argument about employment details. It's not about jobs, it's about personal involvement.
posted by languagehat at 5:45 AM on July 18, 2006
if there's nothing to gain, why should it matter if you're somehow attached to the post in some arcane way?
First off, this was hardly an "arcane" connection. Second, there's a good chance you're not the best judge of the appeal of your buddy's "really neat stuff." Come on, Civil, this is old territory.
posted by mediareport at 6:16 AM on July 18, 2006
First off, this was hardly an "arcane" connection. Second, there's a good chance you're not the best judge of the appeal of your buddy's "really neat stuff." Come on, Civil, this is old territory.
posted by mediareport at 6:16 AM on July 18, 2006
It's clearly a self-link. It was also clearly decided upon and approved by the chomos at grupthink. Fuck 'em.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:59 AM on July 18, 2006
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:59 AM on July 18, 2006
mischief writes "I just added vacapinta to my contacts as a co-worker."
Matt's my coworker.
bob sarabia writes "Although I don't know if josephtate needs to be posting projects for things he's not working on."
After the flogging rabble's post got I can understand it.
Civil_Disobedient writes "Why, if something is sufficiently interesting, can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?"
Because someone involved can't be trusted to make the "sufficiently interesting" judgement without bias. If you really have something like that forward it on to one of the prolific posters [1] with the request to have them front page the site if they think it is "sufficiently interesting".
[1] Heck send it to me, my bar is pretty low (unless it's something not viewable in Lynx or over a slow connection). If it is even moderately interesting I'll post it and even give a via in a MI if you want. Or I'll keep it anonymous. Your choice.
posted by Mitheral at 9:27 AM on July 18, 2006
Matt's my coworker.
bob sarabia writes "Although I don't know if josephtate needs to be posting projects for things he's not working on."
After the flogging rabble's post got I can understand it.
Civil_Disobedient writes "Why, if something is sufficiently interesting, can someone not post something to the FP if they're tangentally related to it?"
Because someone involved can't be trusted to make the "sufficiently interesting" judgement without bias. If you really have something like that forward it on to one of the prolific posters [1] with the request to have them front page the site if they think it is "sufficiently interesting".
[1] Heck send it to me, my bar is pretty low (unless it's something not viewable in Lynx or over a slow connection). If it is even moderately interesting I'll post it and even give a via in a MI if you want. Or I'll keep it anonymous. Your choice.
posted by Mitheral at 9:27 AM on July 18, 2006
I removed the post and suspect we won't see the site linked here again.
Bonk! Bonk! On the head!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:46 AM on July 18, 2006
Bonk! Bonk! On the head!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:46 AM on July 18, 2006
First off, this was hardly an "arcane" connection.
It was an aquaintance's work. Not the poster's site. If my best friend at Google shows me some super-cool project that his team is developing and I post it on the FP, it's not because he's my best friend... What's the difference?
Second, there's a good chance you're not the best judge of the appeal of your buddy's "really neat stuff."
I'd actually feel a lot better about it if it were just a way to curtail self-promotion. As it stands, we have this lame objectivity argument. How does that make any sense? The only things that make it to the front page are things that we personally--subjectively--think are interesting.
I mean, if someone's involved in a project, that would seem to indicate that they are very, very interested in it, right? And how many things have made it to the FP with less "objective" interest?
Come on, Civil, this is old territory.
I know, I know. I just don't get the tenacity and the mean-spirited zeal if it's merely "all about objectivism" as the Hat says.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:24 PM on July 18, 2006
It was an aquaintance's work. Not the poster's site. If my best friend at Google shows me some super-cool project that his team is developing and I post it on the FP, it's not because he's my best friend... What's the difference?
Second, there's a good chance you're not the best judge of the appeal of your buddy's "really neat stuff."
I'd actually feel a lot better about it if it were just a way to curtail self-promotion. As it stands, we have this lame objectivity argument. How does that make any sense? The only things that make it to the front page are things that we personally--subjectively--think are interesting.
I mean, if someone's involved in a project, that would seem to indicate that they are very, very interested in it, right? And how many things have made it to the FP with less "objective" interest?
Come on, Civil, this is old territory.
I know, I know. I just don't get the tenacity and the mean-spirited zeal if it's merely "all about objectivism" as the Hat says.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:24 PM on July 18, 2006
It was an aquaintance's work. Not the poster's site. If my best friend at Google shows me some super-cool project that his team is developing and I post it on the FP, it's not because he's my best friend... What's the difference?
In this case, everyone involved knows each other, they all work at the same place, they all contribute to the site, and only some of them (supposedly) developed it. We're supposed to believe that the person that posted it as his project didn't actually work on it at all. Which no one can explain yet.
posted by bob sarabia at 7:31 PM on July 18, 2006
In this case, everyone involved knows each other, they all work at the same place, they all contribute to the site, and only some of them (supposedly) developed it. We're supposed to believe that the person that posted it as his project didn't actually work on it at all. Which no one can explain yet.
posted by bob sarabia at 7:31 PM on July 18, 2006
I mean, if someone's involved in a project, that would seem to indicate that they are very, very interested in it, right? And how many things have made it to the FP with less "objective" interest?
We've seen where that leads over and over again - so many times, in fact, that it's absurd to start pretending that it's not something that's been an obvious problem. You're just spewing silliness for its own sake, it kinda seems.
posted by mediareport at 8:28 PM on July 18, 2006
We've seen where that leads over and over again - so many times, in fact, that it's absurd to start pretending that it's not something that's been an obvious problem. You're just spewing silliness for its own sake, it kinda seems.
posted by mediareport at 8:28 PM on July 18, 2006
It was an aquaintance's work. Not the poster's site. If my best friend at Google shows me some super-cool project that his team is developing and I post it on the FP, it's not because he's my best friend... What's the difference?
I think a big problem problem here is that there's a strong sense this lot are gaming MetaFilter to build a profile, and that rabble was trying to hide his association with Grupthink behind PR-speak. A couple of years ago I posted about a magical computerised coffee table which was being installed in my house for testing (which, from what some folk are saying above, I absolutely shouldn't have done) but I mentioned that fact in the first comment, and so no one batted an eyelid - if rabble had just said, 'Disclaimer: I know these guys and have worked with them beta testing the site' in the first comment, this callout would never have happened.
We're supposed to believe that the person that posted it as his project didn't actually work on it at all. Which no one can explain yet.
Yeah, that remains odd, given all the we this, we that in the projects post.
posted by jack_mo at 1:57 AM on July 19, 2006
I think a big problem problem here is that there's a strong sense this lot are gaming MetaFilter to build a profile, and that rabble was trying to hide his association with Grupthink behind PR-speak. A couple of years ago I posted about a magical computerised coffee table which was being installed in my house for testing (which, from what some folk are saying above, I absolutely shouldn't have done) but I mentioned that fact in the first comment, and so no one batted an eyelid - if rabble had just said, 'Disclaimer: I know these guys and have worked with them beta testing the site' in the first comment, this callout would never have happened.
We're supposed to believe that the person that posted it as his project didn't actually work on it at all. Which no one can explain yet.
Yeah, that remains odd, given all the we this, we that in the projects post.
posted by jack_mo at 1:57 AM on July 19, 2006
A couple of years ago I posted about a magical computerised coffee table which was being installed in my house for testing
It depends what your relationship with the people who made the table was. If you weren't friends, then it's just posting about a topic you're interested in, and that isn't a self link.
posted by cillit bang at 1:25 PM on July 19, 2006
It depends what your relationship with the people who made the table was. If you weren't friends, then it's just posting about a topic you're interested in, and that isn't a self link.
posted by cillit bang at 1:25 PM on July 19, 2006
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by quonsar at 2:35 PM on July 17, 2006