Seeking global perspectives from the community

November 13, 2024 4:10 PM

Hi all, this is a message from MetaFilter’s BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) board. In the interest of highlighting and growing the global perspective here on our little corner of the web, we want to encourage BIPOC members to post a bit more to the site. So we’re going to use this second week of November to encourage members who don’t consider themselves Western world natives (Diasporic BIPOC welcome here) to make a post or two about their culture.

To that end, we have a few suggestions/themes, but no one has to feel bound to use them, they’re merely suggestions:

How does your culture use rice cookers?


What is one thing about your culture that people have misconceptions about or have stigmas within Western cultural perceptions?

How does your country or culture view/treat cats (past and present)?


What’s a particular food item that is popular in your culture and what are some of the popular variants?

The posts don’t have to be long or filled with links, but it’s ok if they are! Single link posts are absolutely fine on MetaFilter and have a long history on the site.

We’re doing this as a way to showcase the width and breadth of MetaFilter’s global community. No other community is forbidden or discouraged from posting during this event, we merely ask other communities to highlight or share their culture with others on MetaFilter.

Keep in mind that MetaFilter is more than front page posts. If there’s a particular Project you’ve been working on, music you’ve created, or media you like, then you can share all these things on the Projects, Music, or FanFare pages!

Our only request is that you tag these posts with ‘BIPOC’ or let the mods know and we’ll add the tags.

posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) to MetaFilter-Related at 4:10 PM (30 comments total)

Mod note: A couple comments from the same user deleted. Let's avoid insensitive statements and name calling against the work of the BIPOC Board. If you have any concerns or feedback regarding the work of the Board, please email travelingthyme as mentioned in the MeFi Global BIPOC Board page.
posted by loup (staff) at 10:54 AM on November 14

:(
posted by phunniemee at 11:14 AM on November 14 [6 favorites]

Hey, so, I saw the comment that was deleted (unless there was more than one). The comment I saw found the OP post itself offensive (tbh, the post raised my eyebrows too, for similar reasons). The comment was by someone identifying as BIPOC themselves.

I think a more community-oriented response would be to thoughtfully address the issue that was raised, rather than accusing the person who raised it of insensitivity and immediately shutting down any critique.
posted by trig at 11:15 AM on November 14 [15 favorites]

A friendly suggestion: could the tag be named something else, along the lines of "NovemBIPOC" or similar (I assume that if there's interest, this will continue beyond the second week of November, which is already half-over.) BIPOC is used as a tag pretty frequently, and this preserves that use and avoids weird edge cases like someone who does not consider themselves BIPOC but are posting a link with subject matter that could be reasonably tagged that way.

Another thing I'm not clear on (as someone who is BIPOC who was considering make a post about a silly web game today) is whether this can go on any post by a BIPOC Mefite or if it's meant to be more narrowly interpreted, as posts by BIPOC about "culture"? I think the questions and the use of "BIPOC" as a tag kind of lend to that confusion. Bickering about this kind of thing is a time-honored mefi tradition, so I understand not wanting to come down too hard on one side or another, but I would appreciate a little more clarity.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:17 AM on November 14 [3 favorites]

At the very least, and extending the wording of this the greatest possible charity, this should have been posted in a way that makes it much more clear that it's not the mods or Metafilter as an institution speaking.

I'm not even sure I'm correct in that assumption - can a mod confirm that all they've done is post something from written by the BIPOC board under a staff username?
posted by sagc at 11:17 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Yes, please. I, too, was a bit surprised by some of the message, but I thought "this is the BIPOC board speaking, and this could result in some interesting posts, so favorite away, buckaroo."
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:24 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

Thank you for bringing that up, trig, there were several comments (happening at the same time as the note was posted). I've update the mod note to reflect that and reached out to the member in question privately.

Now, for clarification the post was made by Brandon as a member of the BIPOC Board and as part of a larger initiative the Board is working on. Also: tags updated as requested.
posted by loup (staff) at 11:37 AM on November 14

For anyone who missed the original comment, at least the one that I saw: It was a short, frustrated comment that said that questions like "How does your culture use rice cookers?" were themselves stereotypical and reductive (or another similar word, I don't remember).

Deleting that comment instead of showing some understanding of, awareness of, and empathy for the legitimate reasons it was made - and then going even further and accusing the poster of committing some transgression against the BIPOC board - is not okay. This is not an okay direction for the site to be going in.

The general animosity towards site users whose reactions are not easy or complimentary is not okay. The use of site guidelines as a (flagrantly hypocritical) blunt weapon is not okay. A mod staff that knows only how to shut down discussion, and does not know how to shape it instead, is not okay. Frankly, it's not Metafilter.

As much as I've complained about the current management's inability to effectively fundraise, communicate, or complete almost any concrete tasks on a remotely timely basis - this is worse.

On preview: This is not something to only "reach out privately" about.
posted by trig at 11:42 AM on November 14 [21 favorites]

I understand that Brandon was probably on the BIPOC board before he became a mod, but is it really faithful to the intent of that board's purpose for a mod to be its main interface with the larger community?
posted by dusty potato at 11:52 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

I agree--I'm sure Brandon does good work on the board and I don't think he needs to leave it, but it would be nice to get a BIPOC board update that was not through him or loup.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 11:54 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

The post raised my eyebrows, too. Here is why:
1. Asking people to provide cultural education for the benefit of others not in their culture, free, is such a well-known poor practice that is in fact the reason that members of the BIPOC Biard get a stipend. That was a community recommendation when the board was launched.
2. I’m confused about how “BIPOC” as used here seems to equal “global.” Those are overlapping but distinct identities. The goal is unclear.
posted by Miko at 11:57 AM on November 14 [9 favorites]

This is confusing. BIPOC and “global” aren’t synonyms. BIPOC and non-Western aren’t synonyms. Is this intended for culturally underrepresented members to post only about their cultures?

The rice cookers, cats, and food combo is… all I can say is that this is the first time phunniemee has made me laugh so at least there’s that.
posted by betweenthebars at 12:01 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

is it really faithful to the intent of that board's purpose for a mod to be its main interface with the larger community?

Good question. In this specific case the proposal was discussed and approved by the board in our last meeting and Brandon (as part of the Board) decided to take the lead and make it happen.

Now, regarding comments deleted. they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site. The member in question has been contacted and invited to provide feedback to the board either here or directly to them in a way that complies with the content policy and guidelines instead of resourcing to name calling. I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:06 PM on November 14

I did not see the second comment you referenced. I did see one that ended in "WTF is this shit?"

If Metafilter is led by people who think that "WTF is this shit?" is something no one should be allowed to say about site initiatives, then that is absolutely a serious, fundamental, and central issue.
posted by trig at 12:10 PM on November 14 [10 favorites]

Now, regarding comments deleted. they were deleted based on the guidelines and content policy alone, saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site.

This is fundamentally untrue. The swears came after completely reasonable questions had been asked and deleted.

You do know people can see the posts here, right? I have eyes?
posted by phunniemee at 12:10 PM on November 14 [13 favorites]

saying things like "WTF is this shit?" to refer to an initiative from the Board and "WHAT ABOUT THAT, MOTHERFUCKERS????!?!?!?!?" is definitely not okay on the site.

Calling that "insensitive statements" and "name-calling against the Board" is a very loaded characterization, as a few people have already pointed out.

I'll stop addressing questions/comments regarding these deletions as that is not the main purpose of this thread.

I mean, it might not have started that way, but it seems there's a need for a conversation about what kind of reactions to potential microaggressions are deemed "acceptable", especially given the mod/user dynamic.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 12:10 PM on November 14 [4 favorites]

And again: if Metafilter is led by people who think that shutting down an expression of offense and frustration because they don't like the way it was worded is the right thing to do, without responding to the actual offense and frustration behind the comment - then I think Metafilter is not being moderated by people who understand moderation anymore.
posted by trig at 12:13 PM on November 14 [17 favorites]

I've update the mod note to reflect that and reached out to the member in question privately.

loup, from a screenshot I saw it seems that "reached out to the member in question" in this case meant "gave a 24-hour timeout" to that member.

Is that the case?

If so - apart from the question of whether that is at all an appropriate step to take - I find the obfuscation offensive and really disrespectful. If your communication with someone consists of giving them a timeout, please say that directly rather than in a way that misleadingly makes it seem as though an actual positive, generous invitation to dialogue occurred.
posted by trig at 12:29 PM on November 14 [6 favorites]

I considered posting about how odd the choice of possible themes was. Like, it could have been about significant contributions of your culture to science, the arts, etc.

This is particularly odd to me:

What is one thing about your culture that people have misconceptions about or have stigmas within Western cultural perceptions?

Why would a post by and about a BIPOC POV have to center 'Western cultural perceptions'?

I post a lot, and all my posts are from a BIPOC perspective, because I am BIPOC. None of them are about rice cookers, alas.
posted by signal at 12:32 PM on November 14 [7 favorites]

I was also confused by this post. I'm an Afrikaans white South African, so I'm not a "Western World Native" but I'm definitely not BIPOC. And I imagine there are BIPOC people who consider themselves to be Western World Natives (ugh sorry I don't like that term! American, European, British etc ) and who would have illuminating things to share about their non mainstream culture?
posted by Zumbador at 12:33 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]

Listen to the people having the courage to share here. Stop this. Acknowledge the misstep. Have a retrospective.

You can’t ban everyone.

Is this how the site will be run as a community-led initiative? Is there any desire to listen and build trust?
posted by AntiMemetic at 12:45 PM on November 14 [4 favorites]

Not to speak for anyone else's "culture" but this may be a useful resource for the BIPOC board as we wait for FPPs to roll in.
posted by love2potato at 12:47 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]

bet:

- How does your culture use rice cookers?
- What is one thing about your culture that people have misconceptions about or have stigmas within Western cultural perceptions?
- How does your country or culture view/treat cats (past and present)?
- What’s a particular food item that is popular in your culture and what are some of the popular variants?

proposed fpp:

"it is a common misconception that koreans love eating dogs; instead, the trendy dessert these days is eating cats. many recipes for this use gelatin, but it is possible to use rice starch, which can be obtained by washing regular sticky rice in a rice cooker bowl, much like the ones found here. people also can find these in non-cat form. #bipoc #global"

now we can tick off all four for the rest of the month
posted by i used to be someone else at 1:13 PM on November 14 [7 favorites]

there was a minute where i got very ambitious and told myself i would do a big heritage undertaking by personally making baekseolgi for my daughter's 100-day, and then when i tried it kind of just tasted freezer-burned. i made pralines and gave them out and considered that good enough.
posted by Why Is The World In Love Again? at 1:22 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]

The old email address to contact the BIPOC board members directly no longer works. Is it no longer possible for users with concerns to reach out to the board without staff as an intermediary?
posted by AntiMemetic at 1:29 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

hey all,

Coming in off duty just to say, the rice cooker prompt was my idea because as a Persian, we use ours to make crispy rice while other friends I know use theirs to make one-pot-meals. It was a super harmless idea that I thought would inspire more food-related posts as I find the way we use certain tools in our cuisine to be quite special and unique to some of our cultures. I’m bummed that folks found it to be stereotyping/offensive.

We collaborated on the prompt ideas with the board and folks found them to be fun and light hearted. We were just trying to encourage taking up space in whatever ways feels best through low-stakes posting.

Please feel free to email me directly and I’ll forward any complaints to the board. Thanks
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 1:37 PM on November 14 [3 favorites]

We thought it would be a nice idea to intentionally encourage BIPOC users to take up more space the next few weeks and have some fun. I for one, was looking forward to writing about Persian and Middle eastern approaches to rice cookers, pressure cookers and more.

Again, if something didn’t land right or if you feel you’d like to see something different, feel free to email me. We aren’t moderating the thread to silence or ban people, we’re trying to keep it focused on the intended purpose. Again, feedback IS welcome. Email us, I’m happy to make adjustments and discuss new approaches with the board. All BIPOC on the site are also welcome to attend our board meetings that take place every 3rd Saturday of the month.
posted by travelingthyme (staff) at 1:49 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]

We aren’t moderating the thread to silence or ban people, we’re trying to keep it focused on the intended purpose.

...by deleting comments and banning people.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:22 PM on November 14 [5 favorites]

It's not clear which members of staff read MetaTalk threads these days, but it's become a place where many users say that staff/user communication has broken down and legitimate concerns are brushed off or ignored. For mods to close MeTas before serious issues have been properly addressed, then start new threads expecting them to be "fun and light-hearted" and be disappointed by the negative atmosphere feels like a failure to read the room. My subjective impression is that that the balance of user frustration vs. goodwill here has passed a tipping point.
posted by Busy Old Fool at 2:29 PM on November 14 [6 favorites]

Thanks, thyme.

I’m bummed that folks found it to be stereotyping/offensive. ... We aren’t moderating the thread to silence or ban people, we’re trying to keep it focused on the intended purpose.

Respectfully - imagine if the mod or board response to snofoam's entirely understandable frustration had been more like yours, rather than the actual deletion+ban that happened - and the actual failure to thoughtfully address snofoam's (and others') legitimate reactions to the content of the post.

That the board was being clumsily well-intentioned was clear (to me), but the board probably knows as well as anyone that good intentions can still be derailed by unintentional microagressions and ignorance. That happened here. So the response should have been to acknowledge that and re-rail by letting people feel that the good will was stronger than the will to police and control.

Which did not happen, for hours.
posted by trig at 2:37 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]