Pony Request for FanFare December 14, 2022 9:42 AM Subscribe
One FanFare feature I've asked for in the past is the ability to bump older posts back to the top of the timeline. We could do this based on films coming to streaming, being re-released, getting a sequel, etc. While I am requesting that again, today's pony is a new pony, as I have figured out a possible logical way to do that...
What if we had a new type of post that was designated as "Bump" and the only thing a person could do is select from previously posted movies, then state a reason for "bump"? The posts would be locked from comments and instead of having a "More Inside" link, there would be a link to the original post. This would be a way to keep the discussion all on one page, but re-feature a film on the front page of FF at a later date when there was reason to do.
The post would then appear on the FF front page something like this:
What if we had a new type of post that was designated as "Bump" and the only thing a person could do is select from previously posted movies, then state a reason for "bump"? The posts would be locked from comments and instead of having a "More Inside" link, there would be a link to the original post. This would be a way to keep the discussion all on one page, but re-feature a film on the front page of FF at a later date when there was reason to do.
The post would then appear on the FF front page something like this:
Movie: Citizen Kane [bump]
Revisit the beloved classic in advance of the new sequel Citizen Kane II: Kane Returns from Hell and Buys Twitter.
[original post]This would be cool enough in and of itself, but thinking ahead, we could also use similar techniques to allow the posting of movie lists. People could make a stub post that linked to existing FF movie posts on a theme.
Anyhow, this is something that probably would take a fair amount of coding time and we may not be able to spare the work hours. But it's a fun idea to consider putting on the roadmap.
DOT: I think you need to write that script, STAT. I need to see this wonderfully terrible idea brought to life.
posted by sardonyx at 11:42 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 11:42 AM on December 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
The thing that I think wouldn’t be ideal about this is not seeing that there are new comments, since those are on the original thread.
I see what you mean. Perhaps there could be a way to pull the number of comments in the original thread and include that with the bump stub. Bumpstub. That's fun to say.
It could also be possible to just dupe the field for "Date posted" into a new database slot called "Last posted" which could be the actual sorting standard for FF posts. If something got bumped, it could just overwrite the "last posted" date with the date of its newest bump, which would drop it back into the top of the list for a bit.
It'd still be cool to have a "Why this was bumped" field though. You'd want to be able to say "This just hit Netflix" or "The sequel comes out Friday" or whatever.
DOT: I think you need to write that script, STAT. I need to see this wonderfully terrible idea brought to life.
I have several actually good ideas for screenplays. I'm going to stick with meaning to but never actually writing those.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I see what you mean. Perhaps there could be a way to pull the number of comments in the original thread and include that with the bump stub. Bumpstub. That's fun to say.
It could also be possible to just dupe the field for "Date posted" into a new database slot called "Last posted" which could be the actual sorting standard for FF posts. If something got bumped, it could just overwrite the "last posted" date with the date of its newest bump, which would drop it back into the top of the list for a bit.
It'd still be cool to have a "Why this was bumped" field though. You'd want to be able to say "This just hit Netflix" or "The sequel comes out Friday" or whatever.
DOT: I think you need to write that script, STAT. I need to see this wonderfully terrible idea brought to life.
I have several actually good ideas for screenplays. I'm going to stick with meaning to but never actually writing those.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:55 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've been somebody who has gone back and read old threads when I've encountered media that is new to me. I like the idea of bumping a thread back to life but that's what I'd want to see: a bump so that all of the previous discussion was also revived, as there have been times I've had the desire to take what an earlier posted said and reply to it/expand upon it/etc.
posted by sardonyx at 12:37 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 12:37 PM on December 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I go back and read old threads all the time for the same reason, and I agree.
posted by tangerine at 1:38 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tangerine at 1:38 PM on December 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
So, the Popular page for Fanfare might do much of what you want, though I'd suggest another view that's posts only, no comments - Active Discussions? Right now, that page is hella spoilery for the White Lotus finale.
posted by Pronoiac at 3:43 PM on December 14, 2022
posted by Pronoiac at 3:43 PM on December 14, 2022
May i suggest that you call it not a stub, but a stump? A bump stump.
posted by moonmilk at 6:31 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by moonmilk at 6:31 PM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why not simplify: make Recent Comments the default view for everyone.
100% agreed, it's the best view and I don't know why it's not the default. (It doesn't even show up as an option if you're not logged in, and good luck noticing it exists on mobile.) The only problem with using it as a default is that currently new posts don't count as "recent" for some reason. So let new posts be included in the view, rename it "Recent" or "Recent discussions", and let it be the default. That would be both simple and awesome.
posted by trig at 11:58 PM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
100% agreed, it's the best view and I don't know why it's not the default. (It doesn't even show up as an option if you're not logged in, and good luck noticing it exists on mobile.) The only problem with using it as a default is that currently new posts don't count as "recent" for some reason. So let new posts be included in the view, rename it "Recent" or "Recent discussions", and let it be the default. That would be both simple and awesome.
posted by trig at 11:58 PM on December 14, 2022 [8 favorites]
DoT you’re the fanfare goat so imo anything you say goes 😂
posted by lazaruslong at 3:43 AM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 3:43 AM on December 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well the bump stump is a little old place where
we can get [back] to-ge-therrrrrrr
bump stump bayyy-beee
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:06 AM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
we can get [back] to-ge-therrrrrrr
bump stump bayyy-beee
posted by nebulawindphone at 5:06 AM on December 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
+1
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:09 AM on December 15, 2022
posted by cupcakeninja at 6:09 AM on December 15, 2022
I'm definitely for starting with the lightest lift. But I think that displaying new posts on the default view together with recently-commented posts would pretty much be necessary, because otherwise nobody's going to see those new posts until someone comments in them, which would be confusing to lots of users (note how many users don't even know the Recent Comments view exists) and reduce activity on FF. In that scenario you'd also have to keep switching between the two views to actually see what's happening on FF (which is in fact what I end up doing these days, which feels very unnecessary).
Auto-"bumping" posts with no comments would mean that amazing people like DirtyOldTown here would unintentionally run off other active discussions from the page when bulk posting lots of films/shows.
The thing is, DoT tends to comment pretty quickly in his own posts so they already take up a lot of the Recent Comments view, and I don't personally feel like that's been a problem (except for people like me who really hate even seeing descriptions of horror movies, but that's an issue for a much more complicated pony ;-)
The thing some posters do where they put up a bunch of individual episode posts for an entire season all at once would run discussions off the front page, but (a) they already run discussions off the Recent Posts page, so its not like it'd be a new problem, and (b) it already ends up taking up a lot of space on the Recent Comments page because people usually comment in all those individual threads. So I don't think, given the alternatives, that it's a good reason to not show both new posts and recently-commented posts in the default view.
Ideally at some point we'll come up with solutions to the problem of limited front page real estate and bulk posting, but until then an expanded Recent Comments/Discussions/Activity view that shows both kinds of recently-active threads seems like the best combination of simple and useful.
posted by trig at 7:53 AM on December 15, 2022
Auto-"bumping" posts with no comments would mean that amazing people like DirtyOldTown here would unintentionally run off other active discussions from the page when bulk posting lots of films/shows.
The thing is, DoT tends to comment pretty quickly in his own posts so they already take up a lot of the Recent Comments view, and I don't personally feel like that's been a problem (except for people like me who really hate even seeing descriptions of horror movies, but that's an issue for a much more complicated pony ;-)
The thing some posters do where they put up a bunch of individual episode posts for an entire season all at once would run discussions off the front page, but (a) they already run discussions off the Recent Posts page, so its not like it'd be a new problem, and (b) it already ends up taking up a lot of space on the Recent Comments page because people usually comment in all those individual threads. So I don't think, given the alternatives, that it's a good reason to not show both new posts and recently-commented posts in the default view.
Ideally at some point we'll come up with solutions to the problem of limited front page real estate and bulk posting, but until then an expanded Recent Comments/Discussions/Activity view that shows both kinds of recently-active threads seems like the best combination of simple and useful.
posted by trig at 7:53 AM on December 15, 2022
(Also, it took me a minute to understand how you were using the term "auto-bumping". To me bumping is something you do to raise a thread that already exists, plus the OP was using the term "bump" for a totally different suggestion, so it was pretty confusing in this context. I get how you got there, but I think it makes as much sense to just think of the view as including all posts with recent action - whether that action is creation or new comments.)
posted by trig at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2022
posted by trig at 8:08 AM on December 15, 2022
I support any suggestion that would make FanFare a bit more readable. A chronological list doesn’t make much sense and I feel like some things are lost in the shuffle when there are a lot of new posts in a single day. Maybe split the difference and have a ‘What’s New?’ view that shows all new posts in order as they are posted and a ‘What’s Hot?’ view (or a better name) that shows posts older than X days that have new comments?
posted by Diskeater at 10:20 AM on December 15, 2022
posted by Diskeater at 10:20 AM on December 15, 2022
Regarding TV show bulk posts... I understand those and have made some myself. (Baseball fans, please watch the Korean baseball front office drama Stove League!) But they do drive stuff off the front page.
I've always wondered if there was someway that we could feature only the latest post on a show on the front page and then have a link that says "More fresh posts on this show" below it. i don't think that would devalue those posts, but it would help reduce the overpowering effect of posting 12-16 times in a row on the same show.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on December 15, 2022
I've always wondered if there was someway that we could feature only the latest post on a show on the front page and then have a link that says "More fresh posts on this show" below it. i don't think that would devalue those posts, but it would help reduce the overpowering effect of posting 12-16 times in a row on the same show.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on December 15, 2022
My other pony, for another day, is that I wish we could authorize a volunteer "Tag Team" for FF: unpaid users who have the very limited functionality of being able to add tags to other people's posts. That way, we could go back and add #actorname, #directorname or #genre #subgenre tags to make searches more fruitful. That kind of thing.
(There'd need to be a standard about "no tags as commentary" though.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:29 AM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
(There'd need to be a standard about "no tags as commentary" though.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:29 AM on December 15, 2022 [6 favorites]
Oh, I'd totally volunteer for that!
(There'd need to be a standard about "no tags as commentary" though.)
Oh.
posted by mochapickle at 11:39 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
(There'd need to be a standard about "no tags as commentary" though.)
Oh.
posted by mochapickle at 11:39 AM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I just need to protect myself from a #dotisbackonhisbullshit tag.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:45 PM on December 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
That tag would be super popular though
(Seriously - I can't deal with horror but your posts are awesome)
posted by trig at 1:44 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
(Seriously - I can't deal with horror but your posts are awesome)
posted by trig at 1:44 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I believe there was a backtagging project on the Blue at one point, so I imagine it's not outside the question to do it again on the Purple. I vaguely remember people getting 'I'm a backtagging superstar' on their profiles or something similar?
(not an official SC opinion.)
posted by jacquilynne at 2:00 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
(not an official SC opinion.)
posted by jacquilynne at 2:00 PM on December 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
The backtagging project ran from 2007 to 2009. 43,000 old posts were tagged on the Blue and on the Green and people did get a 'I was a backtagging superstar!' on their profile page, similar to the 'I help fund Metafilter!' The 'I was a backtagging superstar!' was removed from profiles in 2011.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:16 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:16 PM on December 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I hope it's okay if I piggyback on DOT's FanFare question to talk a little about FanFare generally. I also hope the steering committee has a dedicated place for making notes on FanFare!
As others have said at different times, I think FanFare could be a much hotter subsite with a little bit of upgrading. Foremost, it needs to have more logical and more user-friendly UX: Things appear and disappear depending on whether you're logged in, some sections seem to have long been dormant, others are not obvious from their names; there are too many menubar options; and there should probably be guidance or restrictions on tagging film/TV, given that information on the director, actors, and, in some cases, screenwriter are all industry-standard, but it's not necessarily the way the average user thinks of tagging on the fly.
One other very minor but, to me, very important element: The actual color purple on FanFare is a massive eyesore. But with a white background some of the pages are ... kind of attractive. As far as I can make out, however, there is currently no way to turn off the Purple without also turning off the Blue, the Green, the Grey and other colors I actually like. So it would be nice to have a subsite-only option of switching off colored backgrounds.
posted by Violet Blue at 3:37 PM on December 16, 2022
As others have said at different times, I think FanFare could be a much hotter subsite with a little bit of upgrading. Foremost, it needs to have more logical and more user-friendly UX: Things appear and disappear depending on whether you're logged in, some sections seem to have long been dormant, others are not obvious from their names; there are too many menubar options; and there should probably be guidance or restrictions on tagging film/TV, given that information on the director, actors, and, in some cases, screenwriter are all industry-standard, but it's not necessarily the way the average user thinks of tagging on the fly.
One other very minor but, to me, very important element: The actual color purple on FanFare is a massive eyesore. But with a white background some of the pages are ... kind of attractive. As far as I can make out, however, there is currently no way to turn off the Purple without also turning off the Blue, the Green, the Grey and other colors I actually like. So it would be nice to have a subsite-only option of switching off colored backgrounds.
posted by Violet Blue at 3:37 PM on December 16, 2022
and there should probably be guidance or restrictions on tagging film/TV, given that information on the director, actors, and, in some cases, screenwriter are all industry-standard, but it's not necessarily the way the average user thinks of tagging on the fly
Tbh I've always wondered why those tags don't just get automatically populated based on the imdb entry, which is already being accessed for other things. I guess you could wind up with a ton of tags that way, but is that a big problem?
(I like the purple! But options are good)
posted by trig at 4:31 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Tbh I've always wondered why those tags don't just get automatically populated based on the imdb entry, which is already being accessed for other things. I guess you could wind up with a ton of tags that way, but is that a big problem?
(I like the purple! But options are good)
posted by trig at 4:31 PM on December 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
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posted by snofoam at 11:06 AM on December 14, 2022 [2 favorites]