FanFare monthly "Best Of"?

August 11, 2022 10:41 AM

I posted this on FanFare Talk but it doesn't seem widely used. I like FanFare, but there's no curated or automated sort of "What's on you shouldn't miss" list. I propose we have a simple open chat type thread where we mention our favorite movies/television shows/books in the past month filed under "Special Events." This should take no new additional development effort or moderator intervention. Any serious objection to it?

My thoughts are that it would be pretty casual and if someone noticed it hasn't been posted near the first of the month, then just go ahead and post it. No need to name someone to be in charge of it. It might be nice to have an end of year thing too but we can cross that towards the end of the year.

This came about because I completely missed Severance as I was busy with work and the way FanFare is currently structured there's no way to really see top shows you need to see. If there was one thread I could go to I could see oh wow, people really liked Prey this month I should check it out. Really not meant to be that big of a deal.

I guess what I'm looking for here is that no strong objection means go ahead and start it and see if it works out?

posted by geoff. to Feature Requests at 10:41 AM (37 comments total)

I see the sense in this. As people comment, they can link the the individual FanFare posts for the series and/or episodes, if there are FanFare pages. There have been Asks like this in the past.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:03 PM on August 11, 2022

I dig it.
posted by signal at 12:41 PM on August 11, 2022

yeah, totally. This could be a great added feature to FanFare.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:02 PM on August 11, 2022

Sounds like a good idea. It seems to parallel the open thread on the blue where you can say pretty much whatever. Have an open thread on FanFare.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:17 PM on August 11, 2022

Every time I remember that Watercooler exists, I look at it and think it should be the default page for FanFare. FanFare isn't a community weblog, it's a discussion site, and Watercooler makes it look like conversations are happening.

However, since that's not going to happen, an open chat thread re: current content chat would be fine. Will anyone see it in Special Events? I think Eurovision Mefites are the only ones who know how to find Special Events.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:19 PM on August 11, 2022 [6 favorites]

If there's something better than Special Events I'd be up for it, it shows up on the frontpage as it is what Brandon used to promote the SC nominations. It also doesn't require a link.
posted by geoff. at 1:33 PM on August 11, 2022

Sounds like a good idea to me.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 3:07 PM on August 11, 2022

I would love this. I will still not watch/read/listen to most of what seems interesting, because there is simply too much content, but I am always taking suggestions.
posted by the primroses were over at 3:19 PM on August 11, 2022 [1 favorite]

I like this idea and even more it should be pinned to the top of the page. Fanfare shouldn't be beholden to the same chronological order constraints that the rest of MeFi is. We should be able to resurrect old Fanfare threads every so often to re-discuss stuff rather than reposting the same media.
posted by Literaryhero at 3:50 PM on August 11, 2022 [4 favorites]

like it. The thread could be useful for tips, information, questions for those less familiar with the site. Perhaps an expansion kit to discuss film itself, technique, form, cinematography, history of film, etc.
posted by clavdivs at 4:56 PM on August 11, 2022

I like this idea, too. I've been using FanFare quite a bit in the last year and totally forgot there was a FanFareTalk and the Watercooler. Probably because they're in that second level nav bar below the spoiler how-to.
posted by cocoagirl at 5:34 PM on August 11, 2022

If there's something better than Special Events I'd be up for it, it shows up on the frontpage as it is what Brandon used to promote the SC nominations. It also doesn't require a link.

As was pointed out previously, it only stayed on the Front Page until other posts pushed it off the page. The SC nominations post was, at best, something that was only intended to be used very rarely because there is currently no way to pin any post to any subsite, the Transition Team did ask about that.

So what happens when the proposed "Whatcha Watchin'" post goes off the front page of Fanfare?

The idea is good and ideally being able to do a pinned post or two on every subsite would be on the list of things to implement for the upcoming Steering Committee.

Until then, or this idea is further thought out, I'd be hesitant about breaking the site structure just because it can done. Especially because this entire post seems to be written along the lines of let's do this now, right now, it's so easy, look it was done in this other one use case, we can totally do it as an ongoing thing, let's gogogogo.

But yeah, overall I'd love to see the FanFare subsite redesigned much sooner rather than later.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:46 PM on August 11, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think this is a great idea as well. I like the watercooler, but I wish there was more.

Or maybe just adding a "popular posts" tab like we have on the front page. I know the watercooler sort of does this, but it's much more limited.

I often go to Fanfare when I'm trying to find a new show to watch, but then if the couple of shows on the Watercooler don't grab my interest, I usually give up, because scrolling through the chronological list is kind of overwhelming.
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:07 PM on August 11, 2022

I'd love to see Watercooler become the face of Fanfare. I've never thought the chronological-by-post format makes much sense. My dream Fanfare would be an expanded Watercooler (why is it called that anyway?) which has several feeds: one for active posts similar to Watercooler, a second for new posts, a third for 'recent comments' so that old posts get a chance to float to the top, and a fourth for Fanfare Chat, Best Of, club proposals, etc. And the ability to filter the first three by medium so I can go straight to Books.
posted by tavegyl at 1:32 AM on August 12, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think this is a great idea. I'd use it for sure (I rarely go to FanFare currently).
posted by hotcoroner at 2:23 AM on August 12, 2022

scrolling through the chronological list is kind of overwhelming

Yeah the searchability / browesability is not great. It is for that reason I really only go there when I have already watched $thing and want to talk or see what others thought about it. Trying to get reccommendations for $newthing doesn't seem to be very easy.
posted by Meatbomb at 2:44 AM on August 12, 2022 [2 favorites]

Watercooler (why is it called that anyway?)

I think this is mostly an American thing? Curious to know if it was ever called this in other countries. Used to be in corporate office buildings, there would be a water dispenser somewhere on the floor, and "watercooler chat" is basically office small-talk when people would meet each other there when they were getting water. Now it's slang for general office chat, which often involves what you watched on the weekend/the night before/etc.
posted by curious nu at 5:25 AM on August 12, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'll go ahead and start next month since it is awkwardly in the middle. Yeah I think FanFare probably needs a complete UX overhaul as unlike the other parts of the site the reverse chronological nature does not lend itself well to shows, there's no way to rate and filter, and a host of other things. But for now this works within the existing design and functionality of the site.
posted by geoff. at 6:06 AM on August 12, 2022

Watercooler is missing Books, so it would be nice to add that.
posted by soelo at 6:23 AM on August 12, 2022

My fantasy for a FF layout is three sliders, showing images (posters or placeholders with the title when posters aren't available). The first would be "Latest Posts" with radio buttons next to it to filter into latest posts within specific categories (movie, TV, books, etc.). The second would be "Most Active Posts" with similar radio buttons to filter. This one would be for the posts with the most recent activity (comments, favorites). The third would be "Freshly Active" (again with radio buttons) and this would be for posts that were older but suddenly got new activity. Optionally, we could even add the option to bump things into this list based on re-release, streaming release, sequel coming out, etc. Below all of that, for fun, we could have an automatically generated word cloud based on tags and if you clicked into one of those tags, you'd get a slider showing the newest and/or most active posts for that tag.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 AM on August 12, 2022

DirtyOldTown makes a good point, there's multiple release dates. This would be great for a whiteboarding session with a designer. I didn't see Elvis in theaters but waited until it was released streaming and I'm sure others did too. Similarly Emmy buzz is picking up which is why I probably heard about Severance and shows like Colbert are doing skits promoting it. Point being that the forum format of FanFare probably isn't the best, which is kind of a good thing that we're noticing this it means people are using and enjoying it. Software is an iterative process of continuous improvement, it isn't like the 10 Commandments.
posted by geoff. at 7:08 AM on August 12, 2022

I'll go ahead and start next month since it is awkwardly in the middle

So you've just decided to go ahead and do it then. Just 24 hours from oh, I have an idea, several people on the minimally used part of the site like it, and you, a single person, has made this decision.

That doesn't seem like the way to go on a community driven site.

It's a bad idea at, but some sort of protocol, method, or something should be established on how to make changes before more people just to decide to start changing things as they fit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on August 12, 2022

Well I'll wait I don't know what the usual process is for this sort of thing is but I didn't see anyone objecting?
posted by geoff. at 7:27 AM on August 12, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm not seeing a problem with trying it out to see if it works, FWIW.
posted by cooker girl at 7:37 AM on August 12, 2022 [3 favorites]

Well I'll wait I don't know what the usual process is for this sort of thing is but I didn't see anyone objecting?

The usual process was proposing it here in MetaTalk and getting a response from the mods. They'd weigh on whether it was a good idea or not whether to do it.

However, things have maybe changed on that front? I'm not sure. Loup, are mods still weighing in on style or feature suggestions? Is this particular idea something that needs mods weighing in on? I'd say yeah, at the very least, until some clear lines of decision making and responsibility are figured out in regards to the site becoming more community driven.

To be clear, I like the idea, no question. But it's a kludge that opens up all sorts of other questions, like who's going to run it, when, is it a community thing were several people do it, when does it start, what happens when the "Whatcha Watchin'" post goes off the front page, etc etc?

Will the site end if this is done, right now? No, of course not. But what happens when someone else has an idea, and they decide to implement it after just 20 hours and having a dozen people say they like the idea?

Again, I like the idea, but am definitely looking sideways at the idea of cowboying this kludge so quickly. There's absolutely nothing wrong with thinking it through in terms of how to does it affect the site (or sub-site) as a whole.

but I didn't see anyone objecting?

And here I thought I was someone, my bad :)
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:41 AM on August 12, 2022

I would have similar objections if geoff is proposing they attempt to enact this with or without mod approval and expanded buy-in from other MeFites.

That said, my guess is they're talking more about a proof of concept to spur a larger feasibility discussion than an end-run to make this happen solo. If that's the case, then sure, cool. Why not.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:08 AM on August 12, 2022 [1 favorite]

The usual process was proposing it here in MetaTalk and getting a response from the mods

I think the minimal process is to post something and see if it gets deleted. The contact form and MetaTalk are supportive of that process and reasonable to use in advance as a check for consensus--which has happened and mostly seems to be working--but there is a well-defined alternative that seems reasonable to pursue at any point with the caveat that the same mechanisms can be used to respond, which may sting if the consensus isn't really there.
posted by Wobbuffet at 3:51 PM on August 12, 2022

He's proposing a free chat thread. About movies. Like the kinds of free thematic chat that occurs in Metatalk—or under Cortex Metafilter—all the time. So like that, in fact, he could have just created one on a weekly basis in MetaTalk, but instead he checked in to see if others would be interested, and might even be willing to start the chat, and proposed putting it in the MetaTalk space for film, which is to say in FanFare.

Does the site really need a bureaucratic process for that? And should everything come to a halt until a process is created? With all due respect, Brandon Blatcher, but I think an objection in this case is unreasonable.
posted by Violet Blue at 6:09 PM on August 12, 2022 [9 favorites]

I don't really see what the big deal is here. He is talking about making one monthly fanfare post as a wrap up. Some of you are making it out like he is trying to overthrow the government.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:09 PM on August 12, 2022 [7 favorites]

*The usual process was proposing it here in MetaTalk and getting a response from the mods. They'd weigh on whether it was a good idea or not whether to do it.*

And he did that, and Jessamyn said she thought it was a good idea. You are saying that isn’t good enough, it needs to go through you now, and you object so it’s a no?

This is a fairly major power grab if you are now saying you can unilaterally overrule the site owner.
posted by tinkletown at 2:36 AM on August 13, 2022

I agree that this MeTa seems like enough feedback to go ahead and try it out — I count 12 people saying it's a good idea and one against, which as far as mefites agreeing on things goes I think is quite good. It's also something that's pretty low-impact if people don't like it — just mute the tag for it or ignore it.

If it gets traction and people like it, then keep doing it and hopefully technical changes can be made to make it more visible/first-class. If not, then there will be a few posts that people didn't like, which is fine.

I'm sympathetic to not wanting to change the structure of sites without enough process, but I think that this is a small enough change (although I get that I'm saying this as someone who doesn't really use FanFare right now) that it makes sense to just do it. Who's to say chatting about your favorite media once a month isn't a special event? And I think that waiting for technical changes will likely mean waiting a long, long time — there's a lot to maintain and fix and improve, so looking for places where we can make positive changes without needing new programming work actually seems good to me.

And he did that, and Jessamyn said she thought it was a good idea. You are saying that isn’t good enough

FWIW, I think the idea of the new ownership structure is that jessamyn is largely not planning to make unilateral decisions on things like this (see this MeTa), an is largely the owner for legal reasons and to transition the site to a more community-governed model, so I don't think her opinion on this should necessarily have any more weight than any other user's.
posted by wesleyac at 5:43 AM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

And I think that waiting for technical changes will likely mean waiting a long, long time — there's a lot to maintain and fix and improve, so looking for places where we can make positive changes without needing new programming work actually seems good to me.

I can be down for this, even though I still think it's not a great a idea overall, but hey I could be wrong! If so, that's fine!

This is a fairly major power grab if you are now saying you can unilaterally overrule the site owner.

Agreeing with the site owner (who's explicitly said they don't want to moderate the site) that the idea is good, but stating that it needs more of a formal process for future situations, is an odd definition of major power grab.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:13 AM on August 13, 2022

Please do this! I'm so tired of new ideas taking forever here. It sounds like a good idea to me. Wouldn't hurt to post it and see how it goes.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:50 AM on August 13, 2022 [7 favorites]

Agreeing with the site owner (who's explicitly said they don't want to moderate the site) that the idea is good, but stating that it needs more of a formal process for future situations, is an odd definition of major power grab.

What is the negative of trying it out and seeing how it goes?

What is the positive of trying to implement more bureaucracy?

FFS. Any change request that requires a technical solution is a no-go because the site can't do anything technical because reasons. Any change request that doesn't require a technical solution is a no-go because we have to have meetings about meetings to figure out a meeting to decide a process to nominate a sub-committee to consider whether to entertain the discussion at some future not yet defined super-committee gathering?

What are we even doing here?

Does anyone actually want the site to improve, or do we just want to talk in circles?
posted by a faithful sock at 10:46 AM on August 13, 2022 [8 favorites]

This is low-to-no effort to try, multiple people including the site owner like it, and the potential for problems is minimal.

People have processes to smooth and clarify workflows, and solve problems. From my pov, pre-emptive processes are usually overhead, unless they’ve come out of previous projects or approaches that haven’t worked.

Again from my pov, one of the process problems we have right now is not being willing enough to experiment. For larger scale changes where there are a ton of stakeholders to consider, and accessibility and social needs issues to investigate, this perhaps makes more sense, but for something as low stakes as this, a quick meta post seems plenty to me.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:38 PM on August 13, 2022 [2 favorites]

It's not really a change, it's a workaround. The mechanism within FanFare for starting a new post on a recurring theme (a variation on what we do on every other subsite that comprises the content of Metafilter in its entirety) is called "clubs," and they don't really work. There are no obvious dates on the "exterior" of the clubs themselves, and it takes two clicks to see whether a club is active or defunct, and there are far too many of them for anyone to easily scan them. It's not a practical way to garner attention without other means (like events) of letting people know a new post has been started.
posted by Violet Blue at 9:22 PM on August 13, 2022 [1 favorite]

a third for 'recent comments' so that old posts get a chance to float to the top

Not sure if this is said knowingly, but the recent comments view exists (although I was unaware of this for a long time because, for reasons unclear, it isn't available when you're not logged in and also the UI on mobile makes it pretty undiscoverable). IMO a recent comments/post is by far what makes the most sense for a site like FanFare where you want lots of engagement in old posts. I've seen a bunch of comments in old FF posts to the effect of "I don't know if anyone will ever read this comment", so it seems like the default view being oriented strictly to new posts is a discouraging factor for participating in older posts.

(Regarding the OP goal of using FF to find good stuff, my long-term wish would be some kind of system that would let you vote for media as "good", "interesting", "fun", "weird", etc., and then you could search or sort the archives to find highly-rated things in the categories you're interested in. But in the short term a discussion thread could be nice.)
posted by trig at 1:10 PM on August 14, 2022