The Election Debate Logistics Thread September 25, 2016 7:07 PM Subscribe

The US presidential debates are upon us, and we'd like to steer the threads covering them so they are fun, readable, and don't break anyone's browser (if possible. Probably not possible.) Here are some things we've been thinking about:

The Metafilter thread:
- Like taz said, we'd like this to go up *very shortly* before the event, so that it doesn't get filled up with general election chatter before the firehose gets turned on, and we'll be enforcing that with deletions as necessary. Thanks for understanding!
- Also like taz said, we'd like the goal to be a thread that someone can read through the thread late (whether that evening, or four years from now) and still make sense of it. That means we'd like people to *try* to confine themselves to substantive remarks and discussion.
- These are super fast-moving and nearly unmoddable threads, historically, so we ask you to exercise your very best self-restraint. Self-restraint means, most of all, flagging and moving on! The speed makes anything else completely unworkable for us.

Chat
- If you just want a roomful of people to yell "OMG NO WAY!" with, we have Chat! Frimble is working on an election-specific room to try to give a little more space for the conversation to be parsable, which we know has been a problem in the past.
- Chat is functionally unmodded (although problem behavior is something we want to know about - we can read logs and chat-ban people, and we can and *will* ban-ban people for truly bad behavior)

Fanfare
- We've had the question of whether this should be on the blue or Fanfare, and honestly, we're not quite ready to introduce politics into what is mostly a non-debate-y space. This may change as we build Fanfare out, but for now, we'll keep on with the Blue as we have in the past.

This is the shape of what we're planning - feedback is welcome!
Please send booze

posted by restless_nomad (staff) to MetaFilter-Related at 7:07 PM (395 comments total) 46 users marked this as a favorite

It sounds like a sensible approach. And those of us living in non-US timezones heartily second the plea for comments which can be followed even if you aren't watching the debates yourself. Thanks for taking on all the work to do this.
posted by frumiousb at 7:15 PM on September 25, 2016 [12 favorites]

Would it be possible to up the daily favorites limit during this time period, because I'm super prone to making those "oh no she di'int" remarks and would commit myself to some restraint in that area were I able to just favorite more comments in rapid succession on the Blue than head into chat... Please and thank you <3
posted by Hermione Granger at 7:30 PM on September 25, 2016 [13 favorites]

This sounds great, I am very much on board with this approach and appreciate that you're asking folks to make the distinction between substantive remarks (thread) and chat (chat). Thank you!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 7:33 PM on September 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

You guys probably thought about this already, but if not... Since a lot of folks don't click through to the grey that often, it might be a good idea to put a link to this MeTa in the site notice header / banner thingie that pops up for major site news.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:37 PM on September 25, 2016 [7 favorites]

Can we get the option for the pagination of threads?
posted by I-baLL at 8:00 PM on September 25, 2016 [7 favorites]

Can one of you call dibs on making the debate post? I don't like the idea of a whole big group of people all working on their posts, and only one staying up. Maybe if there is a small group of people all interested in making the debate post, they could collaborate on it.
posted by andoatnp at 8:00 PM on September 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

I just this minute made a donation to MeFi but was unable to add a comment to the Paypal transaction, so I want it noted that the contribution must go to the Mod Relaxation-Drug Fund, to be used where needed most. I'm serious. Don't go spending it on a fucking banjo for cortex.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:02 PM on September 25, 2016 [49 favorites]

Good news, he's into ukuleles now.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:03 PM on September 25, 2016 [63 favorites]

I take issue with the idea that the two parts of that sentence can possibly have any connection whatsoever.
posted by dersins at 8:27 PM on September 25, 2016 [24 favorites]

Don't be. It's not your fault.
posted by dersins at 9:10 PM on September 25, 2016

Metafilter Chat gets to go back to its roots! It was originally set up as an experiment for Election Day 2012, then after the votes were counted, didn't get deleted and, half a year later, had its status upgraded from 'random hidden site feature that's probably going away' to 'a couple people like it, so why not keep it around?'

If you go to chat via the web site and log in with your MetaFilter username and password, there will now be two tabs along the top: MeFi and Election. Click on the election tab, and you're there. The MeFi tab is for general chat and is the 4-year-old Metafilter Chat. It's fairly quiet a lot of the time, but the chat folks are good folks.

Some people prefer to connect with a chat/IM client. That's a bit more complicated, though, and if you just want to connect to chat via a simple web client, the rest of this comment is irrelevant to you. Clients that should work are listed in the FAQ. I'll try to explain for the ones I have to hand, but further connection instructions can be found in two previous MetaTalk threads as well: original, followup:

Adium

Go to File/Add Account/XMPP (Jabber)
For Username, enter your user name@chat.metafilter.comYour password is your metafilter password.
Click OK.You may get a certificate warning. If so, click Continue to that.
Go to File/Join Group Chat
Under Account, select your Metafilter chat account.
For the Chat Room Name, enter election The Server should be left as conference.chat.metafilter.com Handle should be your MetaFilter username. Password should be your MetaFilter password.

Apple Messages

Go to Messages/Add Account
Choose Other Messages Account... and click Continue.
Account Type is Jabber User Name is your MetaFilter username followed by @chat.metafilter.com Thus, my user name would be: frimble@chat.metafilter.com Password is your MetaFilter password
Click Sign InYou may get a certificate warning. If so, click Continue.
Go to File/Go to Chat Room
Select chat.metafilter.com for your account. The Room Name will be election@conference.chat.metafilter.com
Click Go and you should be logged in.

Monal

Go to Accounts and add a new XMPP account.
Your Jabber ID will be your MetaFilter username followed by @chat.metafilter.com Thus, my user name would be: frimble@chat.metafilter.com Password is your MetaFilter password Enabled should be on.
Tap the back button in the top left to return to the account list. If there is not a green dot next to this account, you may need to tap Log out All and Reconnect All to force a reconnect.
On the bottom button bar, tap More... and then Group Chat.
The account should be yourusername@chat.metafioter.com and the room name should be election.
Tap Join, then go to Active Chats to see the election chat.

posted by frimble (staff) at 9:33 PM on September 25, 2016 [46 favorites]

Other useful thing to know about Chat:

It can scroll really fast when there are a lot of people going "OMG!" etc all at once. But you can turn off scrolling, so that you can read at your own pace.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:53 PM on September 25, 2016 [14 favorites]

As someone who will, best-case scenario, be reading the thread in real time at a 5pm from the back of a very loud middle school orchestra rehearsal in Alaska, thank you mods for making the distinction between thread and chat. Thank you, future comment writers, for providing me the ability to follow along at least a little bit!
posted by charmedimsure at 11:57 PM on September 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think these are all fine ideas, but I think it might be most effective to solicit a poster who's willing to put notes to this effect in the post itself, because otherwise most people in that thread won't see these suggestions/requests.
posted by aubilenon at 12:35 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd even go as far as post a site warning thingy (like for the Paralympics) telling people not to post a debate thread as the mods will take care of that as it begins, and linking here for the rules of engagement.

Otherwise, I'm guessing there will be at least a dozen deleted threads during the afternoon alone.
posted by lmfsilva at 12:42 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Now I have like half a day to figure out how to split screen this between Chat and the Debate Thread...and to decide if I really want to watch at all. [real]

Thank you for thinking so carefully about this, Mods!
posted by wenestvedt at 3:10 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I've got a better idea. Post a notice prohibiting any debate FPP or comments. Give a five day timeout to anyone who violates the prohibition and a 30 day timeout to anyone who complains about it.
posted by Bruce H. at 3:34 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Btw, if you're like me and wondering when the debates will be:

http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-debate-schedule/2016-presidential-debate-schedule/
posted by I-baLL at 4:43 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

I've got a better idea. Post a notice prohibiting any debate FPP or comments. Give a five day timeout to anyone who violates the prohibition and a 30 day timeout to anyone who complains about it.

Posting about the debates before the debate starts, that's a paddlin.
Posting in this thread about threads that were posted about the debates before the debate starts, that's a paddlin.
Posting any further comments about Cortex's new ukulele, you better believe thats a paddlin.
posted by Fizz at 5:08 AM on September 26, 2016 [14 favorites]

Good news, he's into ukuleles now.

I have the feeling that this is because of some ban-banjo event.
posted by Namlit at 6:09 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

we'd like the goal to be a thread that someone can read through the thread late (whether that evening, or four years from now) and still make sense of it. That means we'd like people to *try* to confine themselves to substantive remarks and discussion.

Oh yes please! Thank you for this! It's very frustrating to read something after the fact and just see fifteen comments in a row like:

Damn.

God damn.

That moved me to tears.

Crying here

Is there dust in the room?

God damn

Wow, that was powerful

It drives me crazy! Please tell me what happened and provide some substantive commentary! This is not a race to see who can post "MOST EMOTIONALLY AFFECTED FRIST POST!!!!111ONETEEN11!!!!1!". I totally get the impulse to share with people in real time and it seems like chat is a great choice for that so making the thread useful to people reading even half an hour later who maybe don't know to what you are responding would be very much appreciated. Thank you!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 6:15 AM on September 26, 2016 [66 favorites]

Fanfare has a different background. We're already way overstocked on blue pixels, so
posted by beerperson at 6:16 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

What is the rationale here?

I think it's akin to not wanting the dog on the still kind of new sofa.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:28 AM on September 26, 2016 [27 favorites]

What is the rationale here?

FanFare is the spot for fans to discuss entertainment media rather than news/politics, and we don't really want to cross the streams. As it is now, it's a pretty low-key and friendly spot where people can relax and geek out about their favorite stuff, which was the intention when creating it. We didn't view it as "if it appears on TV it must go there" but rather, if it's fan-related media it can (but doesn't necessarily have to) go there, and we'll build that out to make it easier to use as a spot to chat about popular culture like TV, film, books, etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:34 AM on September 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

Why do you think it would be better on FanFare?
posted by taz (staff) at 6:40 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

we don't really want to cross the streams.

Thanks for taking total protonic reversal seriously, guys. I'd like to keep every molecule in my body from exploding at the speed of light.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:41 AM on September 26, 2016 [15 favorites]

Radical Idea: TrumpFilter (Orange Themed)
posted by Fizz at 6:54 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

so making the thread useful to people reading even half an hour later who maybe don't know to what you are responding would be very much appreciated.

I think it's fine if folks want to vent or say whatever comes to mind in the thread or in chat or wherever else. Blab it! I don't think it's fine to ratchet down the policing on what they can and cannot say (beyond the usual be civil to one another stuff). You're suggesting that we comment with an eye toward the potential usefulness of our comments to late arriving readers?

I think if you miss the debate and want to catch up there are better places to do that than here, although at least one helpful person in the debate thread is likely to provide a link to the transcript for posterity.
posted by notyou at 6:57 AM on September 26, 2016

notyou,

I think there's a big difference between censoring a comment and a polite suggestion that people think carefully about how they post. A two word comment to the effect of: “Holy shit.” doesn't really add much to the overall discussion. And as was mentioned up above, there's always the chat if you want to express yourself in the now for those more spur of the moment emotional responses to the debate as it is unfolding. So I'm more than ok with moderators reminding us to be considerate in how the thread unfolds.
posted by Fizz at 7:03 AM on September 26, 2016 [16 favorites]

I think this is great. Threads of this nature have gotten so big that even being there in real time makes the stream of comments overwhelming.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:09 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

You're suggesting that we comment with an eye toward the potential usefulness of our comments to late arriving readers?

I'm suggesting that a bunch of very brief reactions without context make these threads worse, not better, in real-time and for later readers. Also, I don't know that "late arriving readers" is a thing here; in chat, sure, go nuts, but saying that anyone who isn't keeping up with the MeFi debate thread in real time is "late arriving" seems counter to how the site usually works.

Also frankly even if I knew exactly what they were responding to these comments would drive me bonkers! They don't add anything! If you're really moved by something that's great and I want to hear about it, please tell me! Explain your thought process! That would be interesting and good and I would like to hear about it! A comment that basically says "I'm here and I reacted" is not a helpful contribution, especially in threads that are already very long. Either I'm keeping up in real time in which case I know something like an "oh snap" moment just happened or I'm a "late arriving reader" and I don't know what's going on and you're not telling me. These comments add nothing.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:10 AM on September 26, 2016 [32 favorites]

So something like, "Holy shit! [Expression of surprise at Lester Holt's display of backbone in the follow-up question to Trump's response to the question about his ongoing tax audit. I did not expect Holt to be such a tough questioner.]"
posted by notyou at 7:11 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 7:13 AM on September 26, 2016 [133 favorites]

Please send booze

Just PayPal'd you $10 for a six pack of America. That seems thematically appropriate.

We are indeed all counting on you.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:23 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

Put it Jobs because there is no commenting functionality
posted by beerperson at 7:31 AM on September 26, 2016 [10 favorites]

It's a thing on TV

And also streaming online, from a variety of sources, so something interesting on the internet (not to mention the tons of online analyses and commentary, pre- and post-debate that people will be discussing). But basically, as it says on the About page, "FanFare is a pop culture discussion site," and we're sticking with that purpose for the subsite for now.
posted by taz (staff) at 7:50 AM on September 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

Speaking as a regular commenter in FF, I am truly grateful it's a site that doesn't get into politics any more than peripherally. It makes for a different, more relaxed tone that I truly appreciate.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:53 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

"I think it's fine if folks want to vent or say whatever comes to mind in the thread or in chat or wherever else. Blab it! I don't think it's fine to ratchet down the policing on what they can and cannot say (beyond the usual be civil to one another stuff). "

At a certain volume of comments, everybody venting in thread necessarily ratchets down the level of policing because we simply can't mod as fast as 600 of you can type individual variations on "oooh, sick burn!"

Which is why we're suggesting taking a moment to think about what your comment adds, and if you just need to react and commiserate, chat may be better -- both for you with the real-time sharing (it's nice! I was there in 2012! Try it!) and for other readers of the thread. And for mods trying to keep up with the thread!

Husband just returned from liquor store, am stocked up.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:55 AM on September 26, 2016 [20 favorites]

Self-care. Maybe before the debate, commit to how much you will invest (time, dedication, concentration, emotion) in the online conflagrations, commenting - not just here, but across social media - during and after the debate? Trump is highly likely to say inflammatory things; that relative who upsets everyone at family Thanksgiving dinner and comments in CAPS on Facebook - he or she is going to say inflammatory things. The online media need your clicks and will set bait accordingly. The debate post-mortem will start immediately and go on and on and on, probably until the next debate.

But we are human and need (good) sleep, rest, down-time, emotionally not-always-angry-time, exercise, good food, and so forth in order to not burn out and function okay. I've evolved to the conclusion that the two things I need more than anything to have a good chance of a good day are a good night's sleep beforehand and a um, satisfying, daily emptying in the restroom. Both of which often don't happen if I go through a prolonged period of stress or anger or whatnot. Peers of a similar age have come to a similar realization, as well as the realization that choosing your battles increasingly carefully and selectively, especially the totally optional ones, are a necessary thing to get through the not-young parts of life.

So perhaps set a limit now, before the debate, and try and stick to it, for the sake of your health (both short term and long term)?

For example, online debating for just one hour after the debate, then no screen time until tomorrow, irrelevant of what is flaring up online. Or muting your offensive relative on social media for a few days. Whatever you realistically think you can stick to.

Or the commitment to a nice walk before the debate, and tomorrow when it is light (rather than staying up all night arguing, then spending tomorrow feeling wrecked). With it being autumn/fall, if you strike lucky with the weather, it's good to do something that is great and positive for both body and soul. Example: rather than read Politico/Nate yet again yesterday, I chose to hang out with local Druids at their autumn equinox ritual instead and am so glad I made that choice. Nature is invitingly out there, and you can always come back to the "online plain of a thousand eternal battles" whenever you want, rather than stay there all of the time.

Take care, whatever your choices.
posted by Wordshore at 7:56 AM on September 26, 2016 [10 favorites]

Future generations will look to our Olympics thread as an example of liveblogging gone horribly right.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:58 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Politics as entertainment is bad and that whole mindset has led Trump into being in this debate. I agree with keeping it on the blue where all the other US election posts have been.
posted by h00py at 7:58 AM on September 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

FYI, for those still considering where they'll watch the debate: Bloomberg TV to fact check debate on-screen

I'll not be able to watch the debate live, so I'm counting on the MeFi thread to catch up on all the fun and excitement.

I think marketplace.org (the npr show) is also promising to fact-check on their website and twitter account. I suspect that some other media outlets are going to do the same, which could be an interesting thread in it's own right.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:00 AM on September 26, 2016

Was it me, or was there a politics-centered Metafilter clone 8 years ago?
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:00 AM on September 26, 2016

With fewer emotional responses in a debate thread, I hope to see more space for realtime fact-checking, so I can better understand the responses (or avoidance thereof).
posted by wenestvedt at 8:05 AM on September 26, 2016

(And as a consequence, the Chat stream can be a constant volley of abuse Cheeto-ward, and supportive whooping toward Herself.)
posted by wenestvedt at 8:06 AM on September 26, 2016

i also reject the olympics as pop culture entertainment, that kind of thinking got us Ryan Lochte
posted by beerperson at 8:11 AM on September 26, 2016

Self-care.

You could pay me to watch this debate, but that's what you'd have to do to get me in front of it. OTOH, if you receive CometTV in your area, you can watch schlock video classic Mutant Hunt followed by several hours of Poltergeist: The Legacy instead. (Both of which seem scheduled to match the spirit of the evening.)
posted by octobersurprise at 8:16 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

At a certain volume of comments, everybody venting in thread necessarily ratchets down the level of policing because we simply can't mod as fast as 600 of you can type individual variations on "oooh, sick burn!"

Have y'all considered temporary cybernetic upgrades, to handle threads like these? 'Cause I know a gal...
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also frankly even if I knew exactly what they were responding to these comments would drive me bonkers! They don't add anything! If you're really moved by something that's great and I want to hear about it, please tell me! Explain your thought process!

Slight pedantic note, they add plenty to those watching at that particular moment. Yes, people watching later may not get as much, but that doesn't mean the comments themselves don't add anything. End pedantic note.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:20 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Folks, think of poor Tehund when posting tonight!
posted by peppermind at 8:23 AM on September 26, 2016 [14 favorites]

Is tonight's debate thread intended to be the new election thread

Not necessarily. We can have a post and thread just for the debate, and a separate ongoing election update post.
posted by taz (staff) at 8:29 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm sure there are places in Canada where I can watch this, but as I prepare to send in my absentee ballot, stress out over my last week at my current job, stress out about starting next week at my new job, I am taking the route of self-care and not watching. I'm sure Wossface will say offensive shit because, like, that's his idea of running a political campaign, just as I am sure Hillary will try to juggle all plates to keep things grounded in reality. The only recap I will listen to is the Citizen Radio one on Wednesday.

Those of you constantly participating and commenting? You guys are made of sterner stuff than I.
posted by Kitteh at 8:30 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm both a sports fan and a politics junky and I can't help but chuckle about how much this lead-up to the debate feels like the days before a big NFL playoff game.
Split screens for chat and thread!, guacamole!, which feed has live fact checking?, margaritas!
I'm pretty stoked for a Hillary blowout, and am glad to have this community to share it with, pre-game anxiety and all.
Well done to all the folks trying to iron out the kinks before it all goes down.
Good luck to everyone tonight.
Go Hillary!!!
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:35 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Husband just returned from liquor store, am stocked up.

Anyone a politician lies, take a drink.

*dead after 5 minutes*
posted by Fizz at 8:37 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

ZeusHumms: Was it me, or was there a politics-centered Metafilter clone 8 years ago?

Yes, PoliticalFilter.com existed for a short time in 2008-9 (as captured by Archive.org, referenced on the MeFi Wiki "subsite" page), and Polifi profiles were added as an "also on" site. Otherwise, I don't see much discussion of the clone site.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:43 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Self-care.

I was just gonna say, this more than usual might be the occasion when a drinking game is probably A Bad Idea, but maybe if we tell people that COMMENTING ANGRILY ON SOCIAL MEDIA HAS CARBS, they'll listen.
posted by psoas at 8:44 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

So: vices. They're bad.
posted by psoas at 8:47 AM on September 26, 2016

If the next thread starter is looking here, this is something that should be added to the top:

Gizmodo: How to Stream Tonight's Presidential Debate For Free, No Cable Required
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:48 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Self-care.

I was just gonna say, this more than usual might be the occasion when a drinking game is probably A Bad Idea

An alternative for non-drinkers, then.

Every time someone in the debate tonight says something outrageous, or offensive, or straight-out lies, then cut a slice of cheese off the block in your fridge, and consume.
posted by Wordshore at 8:52 AM on September 26, 2016 [15 favorites]

And also streaming online, from a variety of sources, so something interesting on the internet (not to mention the tons of online analyses and commentary, pre- and post-debate that people will be discussing). But basically, as it says on the About page, "FanFare is a pop culture discussion site," and we're sticking with that purpose for the subsite for now.

I get this argument, but if y'all are ever going to take the temperature of the room on this issue, add me to Greg's "this should be on FanFare" team. Most TV is streaming online, so that's kind of a frog-hair-splitting distinction; by that rationale everything on Hulu and Netflix (and podcasts, etc) should be discussed on the blue.

The "pop culture discussion" distinction is markedly less small, but still, a thousand comments full of "Drumpf" and ideological high-fiving/booing and context-free reactions to a live broadcast event seems like a weird fit for a "check out this interesting/funny link I found" site.

It's not a hill I care to die on, but FWIW I don't see moving *all* live televised discussions to FanFare being likely to hurt it.
posted by middleclasstool at 8:54 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by jessamyn (retired)

...she said with a huge grin on her face.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:58 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

Always with the cheese-cutting, Wordshore, always with the cheese-cutting.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:59 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Back from a week off in Hawaii and I'm experiencing a strong, strange mixture of "oh boy I'm back!" and "ugh this is still going on". But so yes.

Yes, PoliticalFilter.com existed for a short time in 2008-9

Yeah, it was an interesting experiment but it pretty much lived and died (focus on died, as many spinoff sites tend to) on the situation-specific energy that spawned it: the 2008 election season happened and then it stopped happening, and there was no longer (a) the driving force to discuss politics at such volume in general or (b) the pressure-relief function of picking up excess discouraged posts on MeFi proper.

That phenomenon more generally is something I try to think about regularly as we make temporary adjustments and one-off tweaks to how MeFi is handling stuff for this cycle; this, too, will go by the wayside in a couple months.

I get this argument, but if y'all are ever going to take the temperature of the room on this issue, add me to Greg's "this should be on FanFare" team.

For what it's worth, I totally get that perspective. I haven't and continue not to agree with it as where we're going on this, but it's not because I don't understand the categorical appeal of saying "this is a TV thing, it should go in the TV place". It's a reasonable organizational preference to have. I just don't agree that that categorical principle is the most salient one. That might change at some point, it might not; in any case, it definitely hasn't changed for me at this point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

This post is super helpful. Thanks.
posted by Lyme Drop at 9:18 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

For what it's worth, I totally get that perspective. I haven't and continue not to agree with it as where we're going on this, but it's not because I don't understand the categorical appeal of saying "this is a TV thing, it should go in the TV place". It's a reasonable organizational preference to have. I just don't agree that that categorical principle is the most salient one. That might change at some point, it might not; in any case, it definitely hasn't changed for me at this point.

For me, it's not a perfect fit for either the front page or for FanFare, so whichever decision makes the most sense for the (poor, poor) mods works for me.

Also, since Fanfare gets less traffic, it seems lots of people who want to comment on the debate thread might not even know where to find it if it were there.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:20 AM on September 26, 2016 [8 favorites]

Can one of you call dibs on making the debate post? I don't like the idea of a whole big group of people all working on their posts, and only one staying up. Maybe if there is a small group of people all interested in making the debate post, they could collaborate on it.

I've got one in the works. I'll monitor this thread and the current election one, so if you have suggestions either place works.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:22 AM on September 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

Thanks for the instructions, frimble!!
posted by wenestvedt at 9:33 AM on September 26, 2016

this, too, will go by the wayside in a couple months.

I cannot wait until this current political cycle is finished and we can get back to more important discussions, like the upcoming release of Civilization VI.
posted by Fizz at 9:42 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

uh oh. mr_bovis didn't get the memo.
posted by notyou at 9:42 AM on September 26, 2016

Memoes are slippery things. I'll toss something on the sidebar as a palliative.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:45 AM on September 26, 2016

PBS is carrying the debate, if you have a local station you can watch it.
posted by emjaybee at 9:47 AM on September 26, 2016

@notyou

I definitely missed this large memo -- a post-it the size of a billboard.

I've scheduled an appt. with the eye doctor and neurologist.
posted by mr_bovis at 10:00 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, on the chat thing. Maybe MetaFilter could have its own Slack #? Seems like a natural evolution given the Founder's new gig.

I understand there are some problems with Slack's ability to handle thousands of users in a single "team," but MeFi seems like a good testbed: a mostly well-behaved community that's big enough to stretch Slack's capacity, but not so big that it smashes Slack to bits.
posted by notyou at 10:11 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

There's wrinkles, some basically deal-breaking, with an official Slack team mapping to the existing userbase and their username/accounts, unfortunately, setting aside any question of cost (cue meaningful coughing in Matt's direction on that front). I sort of like the idea in terms of that vs. the existing IRC-based chat solution since we don't with Chat have a long historical debt to IRC as the protocol of choice and the web chat client for all pb's and now frimble's efforts is still a fairly wonky setup. But that we haven't even tried it yet is a testament to the degree to which there are unsolved problems in the way.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:17 AM on September 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

What would be considered "very shortly before" the debate? Bloomberg, e.g., starts coverage an hour prior.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:25 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

cortex, with regards to a more robust chat system, have you considered two tin-cans and some string?
posted by Fizz at 10:26 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Political events don't fall into the category of entertainment for me, personally -- they're something I get involved in reluctantly out of a sense of civic duty (or in this particular case, out of blind, screeching panic). I think of the Blue as a place for things that are newsy, current, topical.

So count me as a vote for keeping politics on the Blue, regardless of whether they appear in print or on television or in our nation's deepest, most unspeakable nightmares.
posted by invincible summer at 10:26 AM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

30-60 minutes is a good window, I think. Long enough for folks to find it, not long enough to really go totally nuts in pre-debate wall-climbing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:26 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I tried all the free iOS XMPP clients. Monal: can connect to chat, but doesn't update messages after initial connection, and apparently continually disconnects/reconnects. ChatSecure: iOS version doesn't do group chats yet. Astrachat, Crosstalk, OneTeam: No longer in app store. Guess it's beejive or nothing ($4), and the 1.5 star rating doesn't fill me with confidence. Has anyone actually tried it on iOS 10?
posted by zamboni at 10:30 AM on September 26, 2016

Wordshore: Every time someone in the debate tonight says something outrageous, or offensive, or straight-out lies, then cut a slice of cheese off the block in your fridge, and consume.

Should I keep eating the same block of Dubliner all night? What about pairings? I have green grapes and Honeycrisp apples, is that enough? Probably not ... but no time to go to the store! Why does no one suggest cheese party in advance?

(To be fair, I went on a heavy cheese kick a while back, filling our "meat and cheese" drawer almost exclusively with cheese, so I've been reminded that we shouldn't live on cheese alone, so such suggestions should not be sent my way, unless there's a proper cheese and things party for more than our household.)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:37 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

This would be a good opportunity to test drive a comment limit mechanism. Of course, that would require introducing a comment length limit mechanism; otherwise, people would just keep typing in the input box and then post godknowshowlong comments written over the course of the debate.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:49 AM on September 26, 2016

Meh, maybe it is best to put it on Jobs.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:52 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

pre-debate wall-climbing

and post-debate BASE jumping (with or without parachute, depending on how your candidate did)
posted by AFABulous at 10:55 AM on September 26, 2016

I like all of this.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:08 AM on September 26, 2016

In service of improving our mod toolset a bit, frimble's been hacking together a tool to simplify putting up a banner at the top of the page, something we'll do tonight for the general period of the debate.

Accordingly, I'm gonna put up a silly banner for a few minutes. If you see that silly banner and follow the link to this comment, you now know what that was all about!
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:11 AM on September 26, 2016 [15 favorites]

Even setting aside cost & account-mapping, I'm imagining a MeFi-scale Slack with all the constraints on moderation which Slack provides, and it's a combination of awe and horror.

I mean, I love Slack, but its express purpose/goal is for companies with external enforcement mechanisms. People've made the Social Slack thing work (I'm curious how many MeFi Spinoff Slacks there are by this point), but tenuously and through people involved actively working to not require moderation.

Imagine MeFi where you couldn't disable Mefi Mail and you couldn't block people, so anybody could DM you without the mods being able to read it, and you couldn't stop it.

Or alternately, no ability to restrict people from channels/conversations beyond "People creating private groups" and "Banhammer".

Alternately-alternately, the archive limit. 10,000 messages goes by quickly even in a smaller group. (Though I suppose this'd be the aforementioned "Handwave cost" part)

I've seen large groups migrate to Discord from Slack once scale became too much of an issue, but a lot of the same issues apply there as well.
posted by CrystalDave at 11:13 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh yes please! Thank you for this! It's very frustrating to read something after the fact and just see fifteen comments in a row like:

Damn.

God damn.

That moved me to tears.

Crying here

Is there dust in the room?

God damn

Wow, that was powerful

It drives me crazy! Please tell me what happened and provide some substantive commentary!

This. A hundred times this. Comments that are a reaction to something without quoting or explaining what it is a reaction to are the worst of MeFi, and if you do this you a probably a bad person.
posted by Dysk at 11:13 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Like "did they just say that? It's a blatant lie!" is useless and contentless, whereas "[quote of outrageous thing] did they just say that? It's a blatant lie! "is a meaningful contribution.
posted by Dysk at 11:15 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm here 'cause I saw the banner.

So, what did I win?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:17 AM on September 26, 2016

“HELP HELP I’M TRAPPED IN A BANNER FACTORY”?
posted by Going To Maine at 11:18 AM on September 26, 2016

'Argh, that was terrible;' 'argh, Trump's response was terrible' are both venting, but one of those is comprehensible outside of the thirty-second window in which it was written.

I really really think "argh, Trump saying [x] in response to [y] was terrible" is comprehensible and useful in a way that neither of the other examples are.
posted by Dysk at 11:20 AM on September 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

I agree with Dysk on this one - the previous examples I've seen so far have been functionally the same comment with an extra noun, and wouldn't actually make the thread any more comprehensible to our descendants.
posted by invincible summer at 11:25 AM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

That was a very silly banner and you are a very silly person.
posted by yhbc at 11:26 AM on September 26, 2016

"Here's The Debate Thread End Quote That Should Keep Those Monsters Busy For A Little While Don't Print That Part Obviously Hold On I Can Still Hear You Typing"
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:27 AM on September 26, 2016 [12 favorites]

As someone who can't bear to watch tonight alone, and whose husband can't bear to watch it at all, thank you for giving thought and care to the best way for me to watch surrounded by mefites.
posted by daisyace at 11:27 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, is there going to be a drinking game? And whose job will it be to reverse-address my IP when I get alcohol poisoning?

This is a Very Good Thing. Thank you. I can watch t home and have people to freak out with.
posted by theora55 at 11:37 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Argh! I missed the banner! What did it say?????
You monsters!
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:39 AM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh man it was so awesome. None of us will forget the moment we saw the hilarious secret banner. It will be a MetaFilter in-joke for the ages! You totally had to be there though
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:42 AM on September 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

I hope it said Metafilter: a fucking banjo for cortex.
posted by theora55 at 11:50 AM on September 26, 2016 [5 favorites]

'Argh, that was terrible;' 'argh, Trump's response was terrible' are both venting, but one of those is comprehensible outside of the thirty-second window in which it was written.

I really really think "argh, Trump saying [x] in response to [y] was terrible" is comprehensible and useful in a way that neither of the other examples are.

To that end, how about "argh, Trump saying [x] in response to [y] was terrible, because [z] under my assumptions [w]". Not required, but seems desirable for ideal, clear communication.
posted by polymodus at 11:53 AM on September 26, 2016

The thread is going to need a booger button because if one of the people on camera licks a booger off their face like Cruz did all hell is going to break loose.
posted by bukvich at 11:55 AM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Argh! I missed the banner! What did it say?????

Oh, nothing of any importance. There's nothing going on, and you don't need to worry about anything at all.

*gives thumbs up to other members of the cabal* I don't think they suspect anything!
posted by nubs at 12:07 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

While we're all still talking about this, I'm another person who wants to keep Fanfare light and as politics-free as humanly possible. As many others have commented, the subsite culture there is a lot lighter and more casual than the rest of this place, and that's valuable both to me personally, and to the community at large.

(It's my feeling different subsites should feel different from each other because they're not all intended to serve the same function or type of conversation: going to AskMe is different than going to the Blue or here, and that's as it should be. Politics is very much an FPP type of discussion.)
posted by mordax at 12:41 PM on September 26, 2016 [6 favorites]

In the thread today, is it too much to ask that folks make judicious use of the preview button? If, say, someone asks a question, it's possible that by the time you see it and type out a response, someone else may have answered it already.

This is a pretty good principle, in general obviously but especially for fast-moving thread! It can definitely help avoid inflating the thread size and rate of comments some; I've found myself making a quick decision more than once in these situations to either answer quickly or just let someone else do it, usually opting for the latter.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:14 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

In the thread today, is it too much to ask that folks make judicious use of the preview button? If, say, someone asks a question, it's possible that by the time you see it and type out a response, someone else may have answered it already. A question being answered several times with the same answer doesn't seem like much but repeat comments just make things sort of noisy and add to the load time for us poor sad mobile users.

I totally agree with this and also would ask that people make their responses to questions thoughtful; I know it's super frustrating when you write out a good response and someone's already given a shitty response because they wanted to be the first to address whatever it was, so maybe aim for quality over quantity and be willing to acknowledge that you might not be the first to post about something and that's okay? I think sometimes these fast-moving threads kind of turn into a race, especially when there's a live aspect, and I think encouraging people to preview and compose more thoughtful and less slapdash comments will be of assistance to those of us who read more than we post.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 1:29 PM on September 26, 2016 [13 favorites]

What Mrs. Pterodactyl said.
posted by nickmark at 1:49 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Anyone familiar with Facebook and live events? Is it sufficient to link to, say, www.facebook.com/ABCNews? Or do live events require something more precise?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:07 PM on September 26, 2016

Cooking and doing home repair projects all day. Just wanted to say thanks to people who posted the livestream info, that's very helpful. We haven't gotten our TV set up yet, still deciding if we want to commit to a 2-year Dish Network contract, or continue to be cord cutters. In the meantime, other budgetary concerns arise, such as the need to buy fuel oil and pay rent, so TV might have to wait a while longer (we do have Netflix, however, phew).

It's nice that you posted this, I was wondering what was going to happen, and it will be nice to have fellow MeFi's around to hang with during the debate. Not sure I will be able to keep up with the comments, but will give it ye olde college try, and hopefully will learn something from those more informed. It's been rough lately, as on one of my email lists, one member has turned into a prepper Trump supporter, and keeps posting long diatribes against Hillary, and trying to talk rationally to this person has been a useless endeavor.

I finally gave up and let the other members state their viewpoints, and they've sort of gone away quietly, as the rest of us don't like Trump at all. But dang. It's so weird to see people who were previously liberal all of a sudden buy into the fear, and start spouting Faux News stuff and saying, "But Hillary, , look it up!" And when I do, just to be fair, and say, "that's a conspiracy theory," the answer is, "well, it depends on who you believe..." Ugh.

Thanks again, looking forward to this now, I was dreading it before.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 2:19 PM on September 26, 2016

Can we have a totally separate thread for guacamole recipes, Game of Thrones references, and other in-jokes?
Not that I want those things, I'd just prefer it if the actual debate thread didn't have them.
posted by rocket88 at 2:23 PM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'd like most of the thread to be about what people don't like in the threads.
posted by bongo_x at 2:38 PM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

Here's the live links I have so far:

YouTube: NBC, PBS, the Washington Post, Newsmax, Fox News, and Bloomberg.
Twitter: Bloomberg
Facebook: ABC and PBS.
C-SPAN
VR: Altspace VR

I'm not 100% on the YouTube Bloomberg one (they pulled an earlier one) and whether you can use C-SPAN's w/o a cable sub.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:46 PM on September 26, 2016 [5 favorites]

Can we have a totally separate thread for guacamole recipes, Game of Thrones references, and other in-jokes?

Add Hamilton references and performative despair to that list and that's honestly all we've got here.
posted by zachlipton at 3:08 PM on September 26, 2016 [9 favorites]

Oh my the goat post fooled me, and I guess I'm wrong about the chicken vs... thread.

Gotta ~~Dance~~ Rant.
posted by sammyo at 3:45 PM on September 26, 2016

... but no time to go to the store! Why does no one suggest cheese party in advance?

If you've run out of time, then just see if your neighbor is out. If they are, and they've left the door unlocked, steal theirs. It'll be fine.

A bit of a choice of which debate bingo card (some of them are dubious/tacky) to use, if you're watching the debate and doing that. Alternately, Paddy Power has some debate things you can bet on. Speaking of bookmakers, they all still have Hillary as favorite to become president, so there's that.

Going to do the sleep thing now here in England. Not sure I want to, or even will, turn on the news tomorrow morning, but a long walk is planned, as well as a stop at an establishment for delightful tea and nibbles. Always good to have splendid nature, and splendid food, planned in turbulent times. Good luck to all MeFite debate viewers tonight; toodle pip.
posted by Wordshore at 3:48 PM on September 26, 2016

Speaking of bookmakers, they all still have Hillary as favorite to become president, so there's that.

Just like the odds on Remain got shorter and shorter while the bookies presented Brexit as a long shot... They've about as much credibility as the polls these days.
posted by Dysk at 4:00 PM on September 26, 2016

I took a couple weeks off from election news so that my one liners will be RAZORBLADE sharp. Get ready to laugh folks. Check this one out: TON OLD DUMP

Heh
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:03 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh, btw, I also just bought a ukelele.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:19 PM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

the abject terror that awaits us all at 9pm ET

"Merv Griffin Show" reruns on GRIT-TV?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:20 PM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

There is a movie about Ukes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyiwoG4Is_I
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 4:21 PM on September 26, 2016

A bit of a choice of which debate bingo card (some of them are dubious/tacky) to us

You can make your own here! (With randomized cards, and, if you do more than 24 key words, different words on each card!)

My word bank was:

Benghazi, wall, ISIS/L, emails, Trump Foundation, Clinton Foundation, Russia, Putin, Ukraine, Syria, Aleppo, Supreme Court, refugee crisis, alt-right, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, nuclear, Iran, Iraq, Israel, TPP, trade war, China, tax breaks, Brexit, millionaires and billionaires, death tax, negotiator, Secretary of State, unfit, college tuition, debt crisis, Bernie Sanders, Mike Pence, Tim Kaine, Elizabeth Warren, believe me, huge, paid family leave, hackers, political correctness, racial profiling, Black Lives Matter

posted by damayanti at 4:38 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

I just want to tell you all good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 4:47 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

ಠ_ಠ
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 4:48 PM on September 26, 2016 [25 favorites]

Strong thoughts, safe wishes and much loves to my America friends. I'll always know such friends are here to give me succour, wit and intelligent advice in my dark and frustrated times, and if there are any needs contrariwise, I and many foreign friends will do our best. Keep safe and good trust from house quidnunc (new package with 25% more volume).
posted by the quidnunc kid at 4:52 PM on September 26, 2016 [5 favorites]

I picture the mods putting up the debate thread like those poor retail workers at Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving. Just trying to get through their day without being trampled to death.
posted by Justinian at 4:58 PM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

Or they're boarding up the rest of the threads like "Storms abrewin'". Cortex staring out into the sea steelyeyed. "This one seems different somehow, angrier, orangier".
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:11 PM on September 26, 2016 [10 favorites]

The resulting FPP
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:39 PM on September 26, 2016

Anyone have any idea which site online will have the "most" live stream (little to no delay)?
posted by InsertNiftyNameHere at 5:41 PM on September 26, 2016

OH NO SHE DI'INT

My comment asking people not to do this super-gross shit was deleted from the thread on the blue so I guess I'll make another one here in hopes that people commenting on the debate don't post a bunch of fake AAVE

Please do not do this shit
posted by beerperson at 5:46 PM on September 26, 2016 [15 favorites]

well, looks like my short innocuous comment was almost instantly deleted... guess i won't bother trying to say anything substantive. you all prefer that anyway.

curious though, is there a delete list and a rule or am i the newborn goat in the eagle's eye?
posted by ennui.bz at 5:59 PM on September 26, 2016

Let's be careful out there.
posted by bongo_x at 5:59 PM on September 26, 2016

ennui.bz, a nonsense comment about a goat, looked like it was in the wrong thread. This is not going to be a good night for random nonsense in that thread.

About the "no she di'int," I've mefimailed the poster and if i hear back i'll edit as time allows.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:04 PM on September 26, 2016

The chat isn't handling the load very well :(
posted by Justinian at 6:45 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

"This is not going to be a good night for random nonsense in that thread."

"Hey Donald, you're interrupting me texting my cousin's goofy friend somewhere in Europe offering a bunch of money to crash on his couch for a decade or so."

Observing the thread, reading the room, I think the above the kind of thing, a good feeling comment that allows the thread to move along, yes?
posted by clavdivs at 6:54 PM on September 26, 2016

Can't load the thread already. Hoping for a separate post-debate analysis thread.
posted by joeyh at 7:36 PM on September 26, 2016

I imagine we'll get a fresh thread tomorrow, yeah.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:43 PM on September 26, 2016

Tomorrow's thread title: "What'd I Miss?"
posted by zachlipton at 7:46 PM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ok, edited the post text per OP. Thanks, CHT.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:49 PM on September 26, 2016 [3 favorites]

ennui.bz, a nonsense comment about a goat, looked like it was in the wrong thread.

So you're saying you ... got his goat ...?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:54 PM on September 26, 2016

One comment deleted. uosuaq, do not stir the pot in here or I will give you the night off, I don't have time for this.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:58 PM on September 26, 2016

any chance we could edit the similar wording in this MeTa post
posted by beerperson at 8:35 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sure, per r_n, I've edited this post (swapped out the phrase "oh no she di'int" for "oh no way").
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:49 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Shit, were all the mods on deck tonight?
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:04 PM on September 26, 2016

LM had the wheel, I was the two-beers copilot, r_n was mostly not around because she's scheduled for a couple of the other debates and god why overexpose yourself if you don't have to, EM was lurking in the distance with newborn; taz and gnfti and frimble were all asleep or at least {dad voice} should have been.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 PM on September 26, 2016 [18 favorites]

Well, from my scanning through after the fact, and without going too deep down the rabbit hole of 'what could you/we done better', the thread looks it went well to me. Which means it probably fell somewhere between 'OMG, trainwreck, bodies everywhere' and 'hey, people are being kind to one another... how about that' on y'alls end but most of us would never know which.

So, yea, thanks.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:12 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

or at least {dad voice} should have been.

It's 9PM (server time), do you know where your mods are?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:14 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also the server only automatically rebooted itself once, so!
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:16 PM on September 26, 2016 [4 favorites]

It was in the post, not a comment. Deleting the whole MetaTalk post would obviously be far more disruptive.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:23 PM on September 26, 2016

I can highly recommend tonight's debate-night cocktail: The Paper Plane.

Mix equal parts (.75oz-1oz) Bourbon (Buffalo Trace preferred, also seen Elijah Craig), Aperol, Amaro Nonino, and fresh Lemon Juice (strained) into a cocktail shaker. Add ice and shake hard. Strain into a coupe or cocktail glass.

Variations I have yet to try: Grapefruit instead of lemon ("Balsa Airplane"), Ramazzotti instead of Nonino, Campari instead of Aperol ("Paper Airplane")
posted by zachlipton at 9:42 PM on September 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

For tonight, we're going to close out the Election room on Chat. Regular Chat is still available like usual, and the debate thread on the blue remains open.

If people have thoughts about how this system worked out for the debate, and should we do the same for the next debate, this thread is the place.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:37 PM on September 26, 2016

Are you saving the debate chat log? Is it accessible?

(Does anybody want to access it?)
posted by notyou at 11:01 PM on September 26, 2016

(My blanket fort collapsed, but my cardboard periscope made it unscathed.)
posted by notyou at 11:02 PM on September 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

We're not saving the debate chat log; it's always been the case that chat is intended as an ephemeral space, in contrast to the more permanent nature of a thread. Setting aside the question of whether or not reading through a chat log after the fact is interesting, we've generally asked people to not log chat for posterity or quote chat on the website, so will definitely not be saving it and making it accessible.
posted by frimble (staff) at 11:40 PM on September 26, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oh my, I woke up to this - very much appreciated, mods!
posted by infini at 11:53 PM on September 26, 2016

I would like to complain that I clicked on the "hide" link on the banner and it did not enable me to hide from the world and help me forget about Trump; instead it simply hid the banner. I view this as deceptive marketing and will be complaining to the relevant authorities.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:46 AM on September 27, 2016 [11 favorites]

Clicking on links affects your life less than you would think.
posted by Namlit at 3:48 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

EndsOfInvention, did you read the small print? Because we were very clear that a blanket fort would also be needed.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:50 AM on September 27, 2016 [7 favorites]

I just came in to congratulate and thank the community on the debate thread. I woke up to 1914 comments in that thread (which loaded fine on my iPhone5, plain theme) and I was more or less able to read the whole thing without too much scrolling past reaction comments. Don't get me wrong, reaction comments are also helpful to get the general mood of the event, but I also really really appreciate the people who took a bit more time to transcript a complete quote so that I don't have to watch the full debates or go searching Twitter for context.
posted by like_neon at 4:14 AM on September 27, 2016 [10 favorites]

To expand slightly on my comment above, in terms of what is stored: In the regular chat and in the debate chat, we keep a day’s worth of chat logs easily accessible. We can, in theory, go back further, but that requires extra work and a need to do so, and hasn’t yet needed to be done, as, unlike the last day worth of chats, we aren’t keeping them around in a human-readable form.
posted by frimble (staff) at 7:05 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

Oh! I love the Paper Plane, so rarely offered, too.
posted by crush-onastick at 7:14 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

MetaFilter Guacamole

For preparation two hours before consumption

2 ripe avocados
1 small onion, minced
1 garlic clove, minced and mashed to a paste (with 1/2 teaspoon salt)
4 teaspoons fresh lime juice, or to taste
1/2 teaspoon ground cumin
1 fresh or pickled jalapeño chili if desired, seeded and minced
3 tablespoons fresh cilantro if desired

1. Halve and pit the avocados and scoop the flesh into a bowl.
2. Mash the avocados coarse with a fork and stir in the onion, the garlic paste, the lime juice, the cumin, the chili, and the cilantro.
3. Cover the surface with plastic wrap, and chill in the fridge.
4. Over the next two hours, either:
- Early vote for you-know-which-one, or
- Check that your voter registration is still legitimate, so you can easily vote for you-know-which-one on election day.
5. Remove wrap and consume the guacamole to celebrate doing your civic duty and helping to safeguard the future of humanity. Serve with chips.
posted by Wordshore at 9:31 AM on September 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

I don't understand why anyone would make guacamole with only two avocados.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:02 AM on September 27, 2016 [8 favorites]

I am blessedly relieved that Wordshore's avocado recipe doesn't contain cheese, however.
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 AM on September 27, 2016 [3 favorites]

Needs mayonnaise, though.
posted by notyou at 10:13 AM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

i have lived in Ensenada for thirteen years now and I don't know anyone who uses avocados in guacamole.
posted by beerperson at 10:42 AM on September 27, 2016 [6 favorites]

hey you forgot the peas in your recipe
posted by burgerrr at 11:06 AM on September 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

{looks at comments}
{feels like I've been done over by the MetaFilter Guacamole Police}
#ToughCrowd
posted by Wordshore at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

These aren't long time members but in fact accounts set up by those you've judged at fairs recently, coming to exact revenge.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:46 AM on September 27, 2016 [8 favorites]

Tough crowd? Go with the Haas, then. Thicker skin.
posted by notyou at 11:48 AM on September 27, 2016 [6 favorites]

I've flagged some of you for being offensive.

You know who you are and what you've done.
posted by cooker girl at 1:19 PM on September 27, 2016 [4 favorites]

> /me sends restless_nomad a booze

posted by not_on_display at 9:00 PM on September 27, 2016 [2 favorites]

I was this close to posting a congratulatory MeTa on our jettisoning of the recipe-in-MeTa trend. And then you go and do this.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:58 PM on September 27, 2016 [1 favorite]

How is that an authentic guac recipe? there's no apples or saltines

I only didn't flag this comment because maybe you're a robot with unique tastes that should be respected. But it was hard.
posted by Rangi at 5:41 AM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

That guac recipe was great. Except I substituted half the ingredients with gin and the other half with tonic.
I might skip the two-hour wait next time too.
posted by Kabanos at 10:43 AM on September 28, 2016 [16 favorites]

I always do mine with 3/4 gin and 3/4 tonic. Tastes vary, so much is clear.
posted by Namlit at 11:55 AM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Kabanos, that sounds like an excellent recipe but I'd probably keep the lime juice from the original version.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 12:54 PM on September 28, 2016 [1 favorite]

Between the apparent failure of Chat, the mods' attempt to provide some sort of live-chat outlet for the event, and the desire to keep the Blue as a place for posts that are worth looking at sometime in the future, the only constructive idea I've had is to allow a chatfilter-type post on the Blue (not unmoderated, but full of OH MAN DID TRUMP JUST SNEEZE THAT WAS EPIC ephemeral comments) and then delete it within a week or so.
posted by uosuaq at 8:14 PM on September 28, 2016

Nothing is ever deleted.
posted by clavdivs at 9:24 PM on September 28, 2016

and the pot gets shaken, not stirred.

back to gins and tonicses
posted by Namlit at 6:55 AM on September 29, 2016

Should thread length trigger new threads? Also, should posters be required to memorize Hamilton?

Yes, obv.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:41 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Maybe it's the browser?
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:55 AM on September 29, 2016

We were told to bring it here, so:

Another vote for the Hamilton stuff to be irrelevant and too precious.

Nthed.

New election threads should instead by entitled only using lines from the new Colbert / Foster remake of Cats. It's "the Hamilton of man-animal hybrids".

Some early suggestions:

Rub my Belly
Look How Much I Threw Up (While You Were At Work)
We Just Love The Taste Of Our Own Butts

Oh, you haven't see it?

Yeah; how about that.

posted by Herodios at 9:57 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Have we already used "They don’t need to know me, They don’t like you" for a thread title yet?
posted by zachlipton at 9:57 AM on September 29, 2016

As for election thread titles, I posted one idea to use "[Election 2016]" in them.

A slicker way to find them might be to post a link to the tag "election2016" in the sideblog and encourage people to use tags to find related threads.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:57 AM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

ZeusHumms: Maybe it's the browser?

Maybe. Or maybe the OS.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:00 AM on September 29, 2016

If you click on the "Recent Comments" tab on the Mefi front page, whatever is the current election thread will almost always be in the top five or ten posts there.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:01 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm confused. You mean that some people don't just have the latest election thread permanently open in their browser? Some of you guys are actually capable of closing that tab? And going about your lives without worrying about the current state of the JCPL?

I envy you.
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 AM on September 29, 2016 [5 favorites]

It's not just loading and displaying threads, it's just that they're a pain in the ass to navigate because text size comes into play too. Sometimes I write average-length posts that look massive on my cheapo phone because instead of around maybe the 15-20 words per line on my laptop, on mobile it's generally 5-7 and 8-12 on landscape, and later reading the comment on my laptop, I always have the impression of something missing.
Also, scrolling in mobile Chrome isn't great and anything over around 50/75 comments gets a bit too crowded to follow.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:07 AM on September 29, 2016

If you've posted in the thread yourself at all . . .

You can use your own "Recent Activity" menu item. It'll show you the most recent ten posts in the thread. Read those, punch it again. That's what I do on my mobile.

If you end up in a the middle of a boring conversation you can keep punching until somebody posts something interesting.

If you end up in the middle of an exchange that looks interesting and want to see where it came from, you can click the time stamp of the first listed item, then scroll up from there. Takes a while to load, but lands you where you want to be.

Repeat as needed. You can always bail out and start over with Recent Activity. Much less depressing way to rejoin the thread after an hours absence than "Threadname 543 comments, show".

posted by Herodios at 10:11 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

Another vote for the Hamilton stuff to be irrelevant and too precious.

That's how we roll. Titles even appearing on the front page is a recent ~~abomination~~ thing.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:12 AM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Another vote for the Hamilton stuff to be irrelevant and too precious.

Yeah, I agree. And it's not so much the thread titles themselves, it's the discussion of them at the end of every thread, it's the hamfisted attempts to shoehorn whatever's currently going on into the lyrics....it's noise. It's just noise. These are long threads and I don't think I'm the only one that's totally fatigued by Hamilton quotes.

I like the musical. I just think these threads are over-saturated with it.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:16 AM on September 29, 2016

I like Zachliptons suggestion. Also "See, that’s what happens when you up against the ruffians"

Regardless, I vote our FINAL 2016 election thread be titled "uh... do whatever you want, I'm super dead!"

(Line reading by the Trump campaign or, god forbid, by all of Metafilter -- as appropriate.)
posted by invincible summer at 10:16 AM on September 29, 2016

Much less depressing way to rejoin the thread after an hours absence than "Threadname 543 comments, show"

That's not depressing at all! What's depressing is "1 new comment, show".

Caveat: I may have a problem.
posted by invincible summer at 10:18 AM on September 29, 2016 [8 favorites]

There's always the GOP's new theme song, "Once in a Lifetime".
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:18 AM on September 29, 2016

"Ask him a question ..." = 11.7 MB on my iPhone
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:18 AM on September 29, 2016

I for one just click on the "election" tag and go to the first result. It's only lead me astray a couple times.

Another vote for the Hamilton stuff to be irrelevant and too precious.

I don't have super strong feelings either way, but I do have a question: how are all of you so familiar with Hamilton already? It started off Broadway, now it's on Broadway, but still only playing, via live theater, in NYC, right? The first performances outside New York either just started or are about to start in Chicago?

Have you all made the pilgrimage to Broadway to see the play or have you all bought the sound track or what? I have to admit I am not a big enough musical fan to go to New York from California to see this play, but I did figure I'd see it when it came though on tour. But it seems like the cultural moment might be over by then. I've never seen a musical be so popular before it even started touring.

Unless I'm missing out on a whole way of seeing Hamilton, in which case please enlighten me.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:18 AM on September 29, 2016

Have you all made the pilgrimage to Broadway to see the play or have you all bought the sound track or what?

The soundtrack went platinum a few months back, so that's a pretty big chunk of people right there.
posted by Etrigan at 10:23 AM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

I don't have super strong feelings either way, but I do have a question: how are all of you so familiar with Hamilton already? It started off Broadway, now it's on Broadway, but still only playing, via live theater, in NYC, right? The first performances outside New York either just started or are about to start in Chicago?

The entire recording is available on YouTube, and comprises almost the entire musical, so you won't be missing important plot points.
posted by Rangi at 10:23 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

It's also on Genius, including the one scene left off the album.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:27 AM on September 29, 2016

The Hamilton collection on YouTube is blocked in the US for copyright reasons.

However, the soundtrack is available on Spotify, which is free, and works through browser (requires login) or download.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:30 AM on September 29, 2016

Just want to register that the in-title Election 2016 tag is ugly and just so obvious in a way that bugs me. (Otherwise a fine post, rabbitrabbit)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:41 AM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

Just want to register that the in-title Election 2016 tag is ugly and just so obvious in a way that bugs me. (Otherwise a fine post, rabbitrabbit)

And yet so much easier to locate the latest Election 2016 thread instead of trying to remember what the in-joke title is.
posted by Celsius1414 at 11:13 AM on September 29, 2016 [10 favorites]

Another vote for the Hamilton stuff to be irrelevant and too precious.

++1
posted by Dashy at 11:42 AM on September 29, 2016 [1 favorite]

You all make me sad.
posted by zachlipton at 1:00 PM on September 29, 2016 [2 favorites]

And yet so much easier to locate the latest Election 2016 thread instead of trying to remember what the in-joke title is.

You're doing it wrong.

I knew showing titles was a bad idea
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:37 PM on September 29, 2016

this is not the thread in which we are going to arm-wrestle to settle once and for all whether people should vote third party.

If not now, when? If not us, who(m)?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:53 AM on September 30, 2016

[Election 2000] If not now, when? If not us, who(m)?

;D
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:59 AM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

*starts up the wood chipper*
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:02 AM on September 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Are we seriously proscribing third party voting as a valid topic in [Election] threads?!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:19 AM on September 30, 2016

*writes "I'm sorry I mentioned Nader" on the blackboard 100 times*
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on September 30, 2016 [3 favorites]

Not as a general rule, but for sure that shit that was winding itself up needed a hard stop for now because it has been done to death and better besides.

It's a bummer when more developed, thoughtful comments on the subject end up showing up after a mod ends up needing to delete and say Cut It Out, but sometimes this job is triage and that's what the situation is in there at the moment. It's neither the first nor the last opportunity for discussion we'll have about the motivations for and effects of third party voting in US electoral dynamics.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:25 AM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

> Have you all made the pilgrimage to Broadway to see the play or have you all bought the sound track or what?

I'm not a Broadway musical person. I barely tolerated Phantom of the Opera, honestly - it's just not my cup of tea. I'm also not a rap/hip-hop listener. Again, tastes vary, whatever.

Metafilter wore me down with the relentless Hamilton quoting, and eventually I clicked on this performance by Lin Manuel Miranda at the White House to see what it was about. Just one guy rapping, one guy on the piano, and a White House audience in front of them. If you haven't seen it, please watch through to the end. I won't say anything further.

That - almost verbatim - is the opening number of Hamilton, and as others have pointed out, the soundtrack is on Spotify, on Amazon Prime, was on YouTube, etc. The lyric annotations on Genius add a tremendous amount of background to what's going on - look especially for the green highlights of Miranda's own commentary.

If that hooks you enough, the next step in the deep dive is to get the book about the show. It's like a gorgeously illustrated form of the Genius annotations, and it is fantastic.

And of course you'll want the Ron Chernow bestseller that started it all.

At this point, you are ready to educate others and tell their story...
(That's as far as I've gotten. Maybe someday, Broadway.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:26 AM on September 30, 2016 [5 favorites]

(It's still on YouTube too, but you have to get the first song over here instead of that playlist. If you're able to use another method of listening that funnels more money to the people responsible for the show, that's great too.)
posted by zachlipton at 11:32 AM on September 30, 2016

It's neither the first nor the last opportunity for discussion we'll have about the motivations for and effects of third party voting in US electoral dynamics.

When will the next be? Next thread? I'm left feeling like I'm trying to solve the Trolley Problem, but not just yet.

I'm not a Broadway musical person. I barely tolerated Phantom of the Opera, honestly

I saw it live. It struck me as a mockery of musicals.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:35 AM on September 30, 2016

I'm left feeling like I'm trying to solve the Trolley Problem

I mean, I don't know where you specifically are at but from my perspective I feel like the moment a MetaFilter election discussion starts being treated as anything like a trolley problem—like there are life-and-death consequences and a moral imperative driving the need to make sure this conversation ends with the correct outcome or whatever—is about the moment where shit just starts going well and truly sideways and has trouble recovering without some collateral damage to the community.

There are a lot of smart, passionate, thoughtful people on this site and that's a big part of what I love about it. And I don't trivialize the realness of being in a shared space and communicating about stuff. But this is also still a website where we're yammering about the election a lot, and basically nothing that happens in the election will happen because of what shape that yammering takes.

So if the idea is, we have to talk about third party stuff unchecked because otherwise Thing X Will Happen, I really have to reject that as a guiding force for site discussion or moderation of same. Again, maybe that's not what you mean, maybe I'm badly misunderstanding something here. But, no, I really really don't feel like we're on a deadline in which either (a) MetaFilter has another high-heat argument about why voting for a third party candidate is a moral imperative vs. a moral violation or (b) literally anything at all bad happens.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:49 AM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, I don't know where you specifically are at

I'm at the point where I've seen trolleys take people out, and I want to communicate that to others. (Millenials, pull the switch.)

So if the idea is, we have to talk about third party stuff unchecked because otherwise Thing X Will Happen, I really have to reject that as a guiding force for site discussion or moderation of same.

What's the difference between "unchecked" and "at all"?

I appreciate the distinction on your end (I've modded myself,) but it can come across as editorializing on our end.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:10 PM on September 30, 2016

What's the difference between "unchecked" and "at all"?

It's the difference between saying "cut it out with that in here right now" and saying "never discuss this on MetaFilter again". I'm really not trying to be a jerk here but I don't know a less blunt way to say that I think the distinction between asking people to cut it out at a specific time in a specific thread and telling people that a topic is literally henceforth verboten is a pretty clear and obvious one.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:19 PM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here but I don't know a less blunt way to say that I think the distinction between asking people to cut it out at a specific time in a specific thread and telling people that a topic is literally henceforth verboten is a pretty clear and obvious one.

It is, until you're the one who wants to bring up the topic and is trying to figure out when it would be safe to do so. Unless that time is never, in which case just say so.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:27 PM on September 30, 2016

Some time, in the future, in the course of the god knows how many further discussions we'll have about US electoral politics on the site.

I feel like we have to be talking way past each other right now because all I'm talking about in here is the why of me asking people to cool it in that thread earlier today. I can't figure out what further information you're looking for here unless you are literally asking me, personally, to tell you, personally, a date and time at which you should start a conversation on the site about whatever your opinion is about whether people should vote third party, and that's really not a normal part of my job or of how the site generally works.

I basically trust you, and everybody else here, to do an okay job of trying to read the room, participate in good faith, and be a little bit flexible if it turns out your instincts/preference bump up against moderation needs at any given time and deferring temporarily. That's pretty much the whole thing; I can't really be any more specific than that. It seems to me basically inevitable that people will discuss third party stuff more before the election is over, and hopefully they'll get off to a better start with it next time and a mod won't have to tell folks to chill. So it goes: it's one of a bunch of sub-topics that we've discussed before and will discuss again.

I will say that if you feel that this is a matter of urgency—that you need to know exactly when you can have this particular discussion on MetaFilter because there is some sort of deadline and a consequential need to get some information out there on the site—that, see above, we are probably at fundamentally different places about the role and influence of MeFi discussion on actual electoral outcomes and you may be pursuing unrealistic expectations about what the site can and should be doing. I'm still not clear if that's where you're coming from, but if it is this is basically the line where traditionally MetaFilter has ended and one's personal blog has begun, because there is a practical limit to where This Must Be Said! is really compatible with good choices about how to participate in discussion here, even if the thing that you want to say has merit and is important to you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:52 PM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I can't figure out what further information you're looking for here unless you are literally asking me, personally, to tell you, personally, a date and time at which you should start a conversation on the site about whatever your opinion is about whether people should vote third party, and that's really not a normal part of my job or of how the site generally works.

I am literally asking that. I don't know how I could have been more clear.

Your response seems to be "when my gut feels it's time". (Correct me if I'm wrong) Which is fine, it's your site to run. I guess I'd like a heads up that things can now be posted, or whatever.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:21 PM on September 30, 2016

No, my response is that providing an explicit schedule for broaching subtopics of conversation is not a typical part of how the site works. I have tried to be clear that (a) I expect that the subject will come up again at some point and (b) I'm okay with that. But I can't tell you when that will be or should be because there is zero reason that I would know that. I don't start the vast majority of conversations or sub-conversations around here, and we don't run other people's conversation-starters off a checklist or a calendar. Stuff mostly just happens when it happens, with odd exceptions that are a lot larger scale than e.g. revisiting a given side-topic in the course of an election thread.

This is maybe just one of those loose guidelines vs. explicit ruleset things where the former is the basic site philosophy and the latter is what some folks personally prefer, and if that's the case I am sympathetic because I can dig how not having your preference for specifics or codification met can be frustrating. But that's a conflict with the basic vibe of the site going back a very long time, not a conflict with some new stance I've taken as of today on this specific topic.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:31 PM on September 30, 2016 [2 favorites]

But in the spirit of compromise here, I'll be as specific as I can: I feel like coming back to the topic today, in the current thread, when it's already gone a bit wobbly once already and required mod intervention, would not be a great idea.

Once something gets a little weird like that it helps a lot to give it some time to settle, give the discussion room to breathe, so that anybody who was caught up in it in the previous volley has a chance to properly cool off about it and move away a little bit from that last go-around. Otherwise stuff tends to pick up right where it left off, in a way that can drag down the next attempt at a good exchange about it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:35 PM on September 30, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'll be as specific as I can: I feel like coming back to the topic today, in the current thread, when it's already gone a bit wobbly once already and required mod intervention, would not be a great idea.

I get that, I was just hoping for some guidance so I wouldn't have to test the edges.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:32 PM on September 30, 2016

To be honest I don't really understand why people are having so much trouble with the longboat threads. I mean, I'm on a Thinkpad from 2010 with 4GB of RAM. That's hardly spectacular.
Are modern mobile devices (which I expect most of you to be using) really capable of way less than what my laptop can do easily? Or do most of you use older/weaker hardware than I'm using?

For me and my iPad Mini, it's not the length of the thread per se, it's that I had to judge every link, whether it was worth the PITA to click on it. Because despite getting the link to open in a new tab, my browser would refresh and I'd lose my place in the Election thread. It would either scroll back to the top or return to some unfathomable place mid-thread. (I don't have this problem with my laptop or my desktop, they keep the place if I leave the tab open.)

Yes, NOW I know about time-stamping but for weeks, I would alternate between keeping abreast of the posts, or more likely, being a day or so behind. I didn't want to favorite and then unfavorite just to keep my place. Scrolling down was maddening. Also my iPad is so sensitive that touching the rim anywhere in the upper third would send the thread back to the top. So the time-stamp hack has been a lifesaver.

Regarding MetaChat for the first debate. My iPad froze about 15 minutes in so I switched over to the Blue and I was glad people were posting there even if it wasn't the most coherent record for late-comers.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:47 AM on October 1, 2016

Regarding MetaChat for the first debate. My iPad froze about 15 minutes in so I switched over to the Blue and I was glad people were posting there even if it wasn't the most coherent record for late-comers.

Yeah, Chat (why is it not MetaChat?) was useless on my 3rd Gen. iPad. Are we going to try again for the Veep debate?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:13 PM on October 1, 2016

MetaChat is a long-standing spinoff site that has some member overlap but no official connection to MetaFilter.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:48 PM on October 1, 2016 [1 favorite]

After the debate, I'm seeing a bunch of newer voices in the thread, people I haven't seen as active in past election threads. This is great, but since we've collected a fair number of in-jokes and baggage over the past I-don't-even-know-how-many comments, it's easy to get lost. I thought I'd start a MeFi Wiki page with a glossary to help get people up to speed on Meredith, the Steves, the Shaving Kit, and the like: ElectionThreadReference.

It's a first draft. Feel free to edit, rip it up, add things I forgot (it's a suitably difficult task to think of a list of inane things that you know but others may not), insult my intelligence, etc... I'll drop a link to it in the main thread tomorrow if people generally think this isn't a horrible idea.
posted by zachlipton at 2:32 AM on October 2, 2016 [8 favorites]

I'm curious why we need to mark election threads with [Election 2016]. Isn't that what the tagging system is for? Visiting this page returns you every thread that's been started on the subject since January 2015.

I'm not the biggest Hamilton fan, for the same reason as I tend not to be a fan of anything that comes preceded by an insane shitload of obnoxious squeeing, but I've really enjoyed the Hamilton titling throughout the year. I feel that "delightful, clever musical theatre with a bunch of memorable lines" is a wonderful antidote to the subject matter, which is neither delightful nor clever nor even the least bit musical, and whose theatrical elements are insipid and repetitive to a fault. This Hamilton non-fan requests: more Hamilton inside jokes!

(Y'all are also helping me better pretend I've seen Hamilton when in the company of the sort of lemming whose response to somebody having not seen Hamilton is to blithely insist that the party grind to a halt so that a showing of Hamilton may immediately commence.)
posted by rorgy at 7:42 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh goodness, following the #election2016 tag back to its inception and finding this:

Are Trump and Clinton going to debate? Because I just might break my rule and watch that, for the sheer cringe factor.

What a lighter, simpler time 8/2015 was.
posted by rorgy at 7:44 AM on October 3, 2016 [4 favorites]

Are we going to do the same thing with the next debate thread and wait until a half/hour prior to post?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:04 AM on October 3, 2016

Yeah, I think sticking with that's a good idea; feels like it worked well for the first one. If anyone wants to call dibs again and plan for that, go for it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:30 AM on October 3, 2016

I've already got a draft ready to go (minus the live links.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:42 AM on October 3, 2016

I hereby acknowledge your dibs!
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:57 AM on October 3, 2016 [2 favorites]

Should we direct people to Chat again this time? Or is it likely to be overwhelmed again?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:02 PM on October 3, 2016

I think we'll do the same thing with the default-to-Election-channel chat setup again, yeah. Even with it being overwhelmed at times, it still seems like a useful pressure release valve.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:28 PM on October 3, 2016 [1 favorite]

The Chat overwhelmedness seems to have been very individual -- there was no general outage. My chat window never went down, and the conversation in there continued the whole time, even though individual people got kicked by the system or were unable to access it for whatever reason.

It's a mixed bag, IMO. The comments in the main thread weren't always more contentful than the ones in Chat (though in general we tried to nix ones that were really just pure contextless reaction) ... some more-contexty comments went to Chat, some less-contexty ones ended up in the thread, so it wasn't a really sharp line. But on the other hand, the main thread was getting something on the order of a comment every 5 seconds and the chat was getting around twice that many. Even with the Chat as an outlet, the main thread was still getting runs of ten or fifteen people reacting to the same thing. If we hadn't had the Chat open, I think the main thread would have been more fast-moving and more repetitive. So even though the distinction wasn't perfect, I think it's probably still a good idea to have the election-chat going.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:36 PM on October 3, 2016 [5 favorites]

I'm curious why we need to mark election threads with [Election 2016]. Isn't that what the tagging system is for?

For me, it's less about finding the threads at all than it's about easily being able to see them in my "recent activity" page. When the title is just a quote from a show I'm unfamiliar with, it just blends into the haze of all the other titles that are quotes I'm unfamiliar with. But a thread that starts with the word Election stands out and makes it way easier to see among the other threads.

Plus, when I was making the current thread, other people requested it... so I must not be the only one annoyed by this.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 5:50 AM on October 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

Does the VP debate only get covered by the all-news channels? Seems like the broadcast networks have regular programming on tonight.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:57 AM on October 4, 2016

It should be broadcast by all the usual networks. It's a special event, so listings may not have been updated.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:25 AM on October 4, 2016

Hello election people, just to recap, we're doing the same drill tonight as the first debate -- a new thread on the blue about 30 min before the debate starts; the Election Chat will be up and running; meta-stuff can come in here.

Same division as last time, in brief:

In Chat -- reaction comments without context, like "OMG!!"

In the main thread -- comments with at least enough context that someone who's not watching the debate can understand what you're reacting to, like "OMG, I can't believe Kaine brought his harmonica" or whatever.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 2:50 PM on October 4, 2016 [3 favorites]

Another thing we saw a lot of in the last thread, which should ideally go in the Chat instead of the main thread, was just short phrases quoted without attribution. Like, if you're just saying "OMG binders of women!", that should go in Chat. (But add another few words of context, and it could go in the main thread.)
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:06 PM on October 4, 2016

New post is ready to go. Preview of the live links (some of them will have pre-debate coverage. C-SPAN starts at 6:30 or something):

YouTube's channels (NBC, PBS, Fox News, the Washington Post). Twitter will stream Bloomberg. Facebook has ABC and PBS. C-SPAN has its own feed. You can even watch in virtual reality (Gear, Rift, or Vive) via AltspaceVR.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:09 PM on October 4, 2016 [1 favorite]

I very much approve of the thread title!
posted by zachlipton at 5:27 PM on October 4, 2016

Why do you think it would be better on FanFare?

FanFare would be the place to discuss a wakedout reality show about washed up celebrates that continuously make ridiculous irrational claims and there's the more rational older contestant you mostly feel sorry for.

(rimshot)
posted by sammyo at 7:26 PM on October 4, 2016

I'm curious why we need to mark election threads with [Election 2016]. Isn't that what the tagging system is for? Visiting this page returns you every thread that's been started on the subject since January 2015.

I made the suggestion, and it's only been used once. My idea was to improve visibility and findability. I was reacting partly after reading another person's post stating that they couldn't find the current election thread. Lack of familiarity with Hamilton shouldn't be an obstacle to finding election threads. (On the other hand, are all the election threads attracting new users, or MeFi veterans?)

Realized there were specific tags being used just seconds after posting my suggestion (a face palm moment). The relevant tag seems to be "election2016". It's not necessarily easy to find.
It doesn't show up for me in the blue's 150 top tags cloud. Searching for it requires some persistence too.

Perhaps the front page could borrow from askme and have a list of most popular tags for a short time period, or just a hand curated list of recommended tags to click on to see lists of relevant or interesting content.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:42 AM on October 5, 2016

I'm curious why we need to mark election threads with [Election 2016].

These are correct answers:

to improve visibility and findability.
Lack of familiarity with Hamilton shouldn't be an obstacle to finding election threads.
The relevant tag [is] not necessarily easy to find. . . . Searching for it requires some persistence . . .

Repeat until 2016-11-9

ZeusHumms, but Herodios knows all the words.

posted by Herodios at 9:01 AM on October 5, 2016 [1 favorite]

In the main thread -- comments with at least enough context that someone who's not watching the debate can understand what you're reacting to, like "OMG, I can't believe Kaine brought his harmonica" or whatever.

I couldn't watch yesterday, but I peeked into the thread during the debates and then read it afterwards. Fellow mefites, please please please take the time to give quotes attribution and maybe even a little context,* like "[statement]" by Kaine in response to a question about [issue], [here's my reaction!]" are awesome. Like Mrs. Pterodactyl said upthread, "If you're really moved by something that's great and I want to hear about it, please tell me! Explain your thought process! That would be interesting and good and I would like to hear about it! A comment that basically says "I'm here and I reacted" is not a helpful contribution, especially in threads that are already very long. Either I'm keeping up in real time in which case I know something like an "oh snap" moment just happened or I'm a "late arriving reader" and I don't know what's going on and you're not telling me. These comments add nothing."

*winna and ErisLordFreedom are fantastic at this!
posted by everybody had matching towels at 10:53 AM on October 5, 2016

The tags don't show up on the front page, and on mobile view they don't show up in the thread either. Or I don't know how to get to them.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 1:27 PM on October 5, 2016

On mobile they're all the way at the bottom.
posted by mrmorgan at 4:16 PM on October 5, 2016

Hey, I've not been following MeFi election threads for a while, so this is coming from a place of ignorance: In previous elections, in previous election threads, people have set up vote-swaps (your big party vote in a swing state for my third party vote in a solidly colored state). Is there a better or worse place/thread to discuss this?

I would have just mentioned it in the next Election2016 tagged post (the next debate?), but from scanning this post it sounds like that's not a good idea. Any suggestions / recommendations?
posted by benito.strauss at 11:04 AM on October 6, 2016 [1 favorite]

to improve visibility and findability.

A bit of history. Back in the day, titles weren't visible on the Blue. So, the tradition of making titles an after-you-clicked-through joke arose. Then the mods went nuts and made them visible on the front page.

tl:dr: expecting MeFi titles to be "This is the thing this is" is a sucker's game.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:24 PM on October 6, 2016 [3 favorites]

Bringing this over here as requested in the main thread...

trying to solicit an explanation from the perspective of someone who is more immersed in the subculture from which that stuff arises

I'm pretty immersed in fanfic culture, and some of what I see in the thread does ping as fanfic for me. Mostly the longer comments, ones that go on for more than one exchange or so. It doesn't bother me, though - it's just one point in a wide spectrum of what we're all doing here anyway.

The rest of what I see - along the lines of "if Trump tries this I would love to see Clinton say this other thing" - doesn't seem fanfic-like at all to me. That's really just kind of esprit de l'escalier, but before the fact instead of after.

The longer comments I skip over; the shorter comments I often favorite.
posted by invincible summer at 9:18 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm the one who raised this issue, I guess...

"Fanfiction" was an imprecise term, chosen for lack of a better one.

I'm not really arguing that people should be discouraged from commenting in this way, as a matter of official or quasi-official MeFi policy. I'm just sayin', it makes me give people the side-eye. It's kinda like those YouTube videos with titles like "So-and-So Absolutely DESTROYS [Creationist|Feminist|Atheist|Insert Reviled Group Here]". Even when I agree with the general position of the video, it's just kinda tacky and petty.

I have voiced the concern, and will be content to simply ignore future comments that aren't to my taste.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:51 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ugh. Don't get me started on the people who abuse the " x DESTROYS y" headlines, particularly in the past months. I've seen Trump being DESTROYED by almost everyone - Hillary, Maher, Colbert, Michelle, SamBee, Seth Myers, Bono, Olbermann, and so on. Except on reality it feels more like self-destruction.~

I'm already ignoring and removed RSS feeds that were abusing this kind of clickbait. Don't wish to see it on MeFi.
posted by lmfsilva at 10:09 AM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

lmfsilva EVISCERATES clickbait-y headlines.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:16 AM on October 7, 2016 [6 favorites]

With regard to the next thread's title, is Hamilton Apocrypha eligible?

To wit: "PAY YOUR FUCKING TAXES!"
posted by whuppy at 12:16 PM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

I assume we're doing the same thing this Sunday? Should I do a post again, or does someone else want a swing at the piñata?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:38 PM on October 7, 2016

Ptshaw. The last one hasn't cracked 3K yet.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:27 PM on October 7, 2016

I honestly thought we could have a nice quiet couple of days until we made it to Sunday's debate thread.

That said, we're still well under the threshold where we've needed a new thread in the past, and making this one work for another two days seems sensible, but excluding people stinks. Have you tried the plain theme?
posted by zachlipton at 3:18 PM on October 7, 2016

Yeah, honestly, I'm a little at sea this afternoon with the totality of the election and the massive weirdness of this afternoon. I expected a quiet couple of days and then Sunday busy with a new thread, and, well, today happened.

My inclination, my personal inclination, would be as it usually has been when the thread is long but the weekend is rolling around, to say "let's just ride it out and go pursue other hobbies as needed until the quickly approaching Next Thing (Monday morning, Sunday debate airing, etc) comes along".

This afternoon has been busy and blown up that thread in a way that's straddling right up to the really-rather-creaky threshold that I had expected instead we'd be just closing in on Sunday morning.

So on the one hand I'd be inclined to say let's just suffer through; on the other hand if it's going to be very busy I wouldn't really seriously side-eye someone putting together a good new general post; on the gripping hand it's hard to see a new post right now not looking like a pretty duplicative rehashing of the last "whaaaaaat?" several hundred comments of the current, still very active thread, which nudges me back toward favoring riding the current conditions out.

I'm willing to be flexible if someone has strong feelings about starting a new thread and doing it well, but boy howdy mostly I just want to crawl under a blanket at the moment.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:46 PM on October 7, 2016 [3 favorites]

Can we get a new thread entirely about blanket forts?
posted by zachlipton at 3:59 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

Would one be correct in suspecting that the submission of the first FPP focused on the 2020 US election would not be met with universal acclaim from the rank and file membership of MetaFilter, or indeed the most splendid of moderators?
posted by Wordshore at 4:26 PM on October 7, 2016

I have already expressed my opinion on that.
posted by DanSachs at 4:38 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

People. We've hit 4K before. Soldier on til Sunday.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:05 PM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm thinking lose/lose like cortex, but slightly leaning toward hoping a new one goes up. We could just continue it into the debate even though that's not the usual thing. Today was kind of Unusual, and people besides the usual suspects are going to be looking for it on the front page, not 4000 comments into an old thread.
posted by ctmf at 10:30 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm voting for a new thread. I understand that it's a pain and Sunday is close but what happened today is pretty big and it would be good if everyone had a chance to participate. Long threads mean some people just can't.
posted by Jalliah at 10:30 PM on October 7, 2016 [2 favorites]

It's getting late and the comment velocity seems to be settling down for the night. Maybe we should see what happens tomorrow morning and decide then?
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 PM on October 7, 2016

I vote for a new one, even if it does mean not starting the debate with a clean post; the latest retching Trump incident and the forthcoming debate are so intertwined, and there's still nearly two days to said debate. I'd do an FPP myself but eating that damned Hamdog has made me bleurgh and sleep-dep and from past experience if I'm not fully focused on FPP construction the mods have to come clean up the errors in it later.
posted by Wordshore at 10:45 PM on October 7, 2016

I'm working on a post right now while catching up on the current thread. The party leadership has begun abandoning its nominee in droves, making this a landmark moment in the history of American political scandals. I'm a big believer in MeFi as a historical document -- see, for example, the Romney 47% thread, second-biggest in site history -- and the discussion of this shouldn't be buried deep in the back half of a days-old VP debate liveblog.

Hell, at this rate, there might not even be a second debate to wait for.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:59 PM on October 7, 2016 [5 favorites]

ThePinkSuperhero suggested "You ever see somebody ruin their own life? His poor wife" for a new thread title.
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 PM on October 7, 2016

Either late tonight or in the morning, if there's no veto. I've got a number of good links in mind already.

(I was thinking "He's never gon' be president now" for the title, but could that be tempting fate?)
posted by Rhaomi at 11:05 PM on October 7, 2016 [1 favorite]

No veto from us. This is all extraordinary enough that there's no chance of riding it out 'til the debate, I think, so a new thread is fine. As usual, though, let's try to keep the thread more of a discussion and not live chat, as much as possible.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:10 PM on October 7, 2016 [4 favorites]

Would it make sense in the new post to link to the place in the old post where the discussion of the video begins?
posted by DanSachs at 3:44 AM on October 8, 2016

Yes it would, cuz, man have I been scrolling.
posted by Namlit at 4:05 AM on October 8, 2016

Well I slept on it, see ~4000 comments in the old thread, and no new thread yet, so...

🚨 #NEWTHREAD 🚨
posted by Rhaomi at 4:22 AM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Thank you Rhaomi. I stand in awe of you and everyone else who has been coming up with these absolutely fabulous election posts.
posted by DanSachs at 4:33 AM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Well I slept on it, see ~4000 comments in the old thread, and no new thread yet, so...

Your comment was actually the 4000th. Excellent timing!
posted by zombieflanders at 6:10 AM on October 8, 2016

So, is the debate going to get its own FPP?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:21 AM on October 8, 2016

Yeah, but the debate thread became the election thread in practice. I guess I'll draft one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:38 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

The current thread is averaging about 90 comments an hour. This may go down (esp. due to FPP-opening surge) - or, it may go up, as more fallout occurs through the evening and night.

Assuming it stays at around 90 comments an hour, that's another 28 hours before the debate, which is another 2,520 comments in addition to the current 857, making 3,357 at the time of debate. I personally don't think it's good to go into the debate with the official thread being over 3,000+ comments already.

Of course, that's if there is a debate, and both candidates stay healthy, and Trump doesn't quit, and ... [insert all manner of things that can happen in the next 28 hours]. But assuming there is a debate, voting for a clean/new FPP, in the same style as last time (parallel with chat, going up at the same time before etc)
posted by Wordshore at 1:59 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I think a new one for the debate itself is the practical call with the weird timing here. Lord knows even if it started out functionally mid-sized it probably wouldn't stay that way long.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:04 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I call dibs on the first election 2020 thread which I will post on November 9th if thats ok.
posted by Justinian at 3:07 PM on October 8, 2016 [3 favorites]

I call dibs on the first election 2020 thread which I will post on November 9th if thats ok.

/looks around for heavy objects to throw at Justinian
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:10 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

And that's how Byzantium got burned.
posted by corb at 3:11 PM on October 8, 2016 [6 favorites]

I call dibs on the first election 2020 thread which I will post on November 9th if thats ok

I'm assuming you mean 2018, based on previous experience.
posted by Mooski at 3:12 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

It might not be a bad idea to have ongoing political threads if people want to stay engaged and volunteer and whatnot.

sorry sorry sorry
posted by schadenfrau at 3:16 PM on October 8, 2016

I picture the mods putting up the debate thread like those poor retail workers at Best Buy the day after Thanksgiving. Just trying to get through their day without being trampled to death.

Scene: A quiet house, in rural Vermont. The kitchen. A table, with a few books scattered about it. A clock on the wall, ticking.

It is late morning. There are no sounds of human activity; outside, a squirrel scratches on the windowpane, while a bird pecks enthusiastically at a feeder hung from a tree.

Jessamyn emerges from the bedroom. She turns on the small television. Politicians, embroiled in the last stages of the US election, are shouting obscenities at each other. Underneath, a scrolling tape informs of British politicians fist-fighting in the EU parliament building. She hurriedly turns off the television.

Jessamyn yawns, and fills the kettle with fresh water. Awaiting the boiling, she busies herself with tea-making preparation. She briefly turns on her iPad and selects Firefox. MetaFilter, so long the default home page, is now relegated several menus deep in the bookmarks. She finds it, and notices the election thread. Selecting this, new comments appear faster than she can read. Quickly, she loses interest.

Jessamyn looks away, attention drawn by a jar of moss and earth on the windowsill. She pours a small amount of fresh water into it, looking for signs of miniscule growth. Stares a little longer, satisfied at the stillness and calmness of the moss.

The kettle boils; the teapot is filled; the tea cosy is wrapped around it. The cuckoo clock Jim made springs into life and sounds twelve times. Noon.

Jessamyn loads the latest comments on the election thread. One from Cortex, moderator, reads:

FOR THE LAST TIME, CUT IT OUT, OR I AM TAKING YOU ALL DOWN WITH ME. I HAVE KALE AND I AM SERIOUS.

Jessamyn sighs and switches off the iPad. The bird outside, sated, flies away. In the distance, deer can be heard rustling on the edge of woodland.

She looks at her to-do list for today, which informs that some library books need returning. But the library doesn't close until 5pm, so why rush? Tea first; maybe some toast. An amble to the Post Office. Perhaps a sample or two of cheese at the deli; perhaps not.

Jessamyn yawns again. The clock ticks. The squirrel continues to busy itself outside.

Life is good.
posted by Wordshore at 3:40 PM on October 8, 2016 [7 favorites]

Just saw a mod note in the current election thread asking to end a derail about libertarians. Is that really appropriate? Libertarians don't even believe we should have mods.
posted by snofoam at 3:50 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can I suggest "Oh my God. Tear this dude apart," as a debate thread title.
posted by Banknote of the year at 4:00 PM on October 8, 2016 [5 favorites]

Libertarians don't even believe we should have mods.

...but they're happy to reap the benefits.
posted by Mooski at 4:02 PM on October 8, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can I suggest "Oh my God. Tear this dude apart," as a debate thread title.

Which song is that?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:47 PM on October 8, 2016

It's from "Farmer Refuted", early in the show.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:52 PM on October 8, 2016

Oh, Farmer Refuted. Very good.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:54 PM on October 8, 2016

"So time to pay the piper for the pants you unbuckled" is too on the nose right? Way too on the nose.

We should also save "Your sentences border on senseless" for some future nonsense utterance.
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on October 8, 2016 [4 favorites]

I don't see why not; separate threads seem to be an option.

Yeah, but the debate thread became the election thread in practice. I guess I'll draft one.

I can only follow one election/debate thread at a time, I suspect most people are the same way and trying to even loosely enforce a separation of topics is going to be a fools errand. I know it's not standard site practice, but I'd almost vote for locking the old thread once a new official one is sanctioned or whatever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:18 PM on October 8, 2016

Sorry. I thought that the deraily part was all the discussion about streaming TV, cable TV, antennas, youtube channels etc... and not the SNL show itself tonight, or at least the election-relevant parts thereof.
posted by zachlipton at 8:38 PM on October 8, 2016

I kind of like the "Time to pay the piper for the pants you unbuckled" too, but I am really happy with any Hamilton lyric.
posted by corb at 1:37 AM on October 9, 2016

Yeah, but the debate thread became the election thread in practice. I guess I'll draft one.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker
Thank you! Maybe I'll have some favorites back by then... probably not, but oh well.
posted by TrishaU at 6:02 AM on October 9, 2016

No you do! It was pointed out it's a rolling scale, so you'll get them back at least for the time you slept and weren't favoriting things.
posted by corb at 10:57 AM on October 9, 2016

"Oh my God. Tear this dude apart" feels more appropriate for the next debate, rather than this town hall style one. Working title is "Don’t modulate the key then not debate with me!" but I'm open to other suggestions ("the pants you unbuckled" probably is too on-the-nose.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:08 AM on October 9, 2016 [4 favorites]

Preview of live links (some start early):

YouTube's channels (NBC, PBS, Fox News, the Washington Post). Twitter will stream Bloomberg. Facebook has ABC and PBS. C-SPAN has its own feed.

Let me know if I missed any (some, like Telemundo, go up too close to post time.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:51 PM on October 9, 2016

I'm starting to think "the world turned upside down" should be the debate thread title at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 5:09 PM on October 9, 2016

"If you repeat yourself again I'm gonna scream"

"drop the niceties"
posted by fomhar at 5:10 PM on October 9, 2016

Remember, same principle as last time - pure reaction without context, take it to Chat. Try to keep the main thread comments to stuff that people who aren't watching can understand -- include enough context for that.

Also, please don't flag stuff unless it's a big problem; minor noise or jokes may or may not get deleted but flagging them isn't productive in a thread like this. We'll be modding as fast as we can in real time and extra flags (having to reload the thread every time) actually slows us down.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:11 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

Next debate thread is live.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:47 PM on October 9, 2016

Remember, same principle as last time - pure reaction without context, take it to Chat. Try to keep the main thread comments to stuff that people who aren't watching can understand -- include enough context for that.

Please consider, especially if you're asking us not to flag noise, please consider leaving notes in the thread when things get exceptionally chatty. The last debate thread was practically unreadable if you weren't watching live.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 6:23 PM on October 9, 2016

I am deleting the things I can and trying to keep up.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:25 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

This is really a "we can only do so much" situation. I have to reload the thread upon each delete and also to look at each flag individually, so the pace of mod action is limited by the reload times, and the pace of comments coming in is faster than that right now.

As I said after the first debate, the division isn't working perfectly but it's helping.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:36 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I appreciate your efforts LobsterMitten!
posted by zachlipton at 6:39 PM on October 9, 2016 [2 favorites]

I have to reload the thread upon each delete

I used to click the delete link with the "open in new tab" key command so I didn't have to reload the thread. (command click on the mac, don't know what it is on the PC). You're doing great!
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 7:00 PM on October 9, 2016

Was there something deleted at the beginning about whatever Trump's "stunt" was?

I literally just started reading the thread to get a recap of what's happened and already people are talking about something with 0 context, which I thought we were going to not try to do. Just curious if that's what happened or if the comments linking to it or talking about it were removed. Either way, it seems like this isn't going to be something that's going to make a lot of sense as my sole source of information on the debate (which is fine, just not what I hoped for).

While writing this comment I googled it and apparently it was a shitty press conference.
posted by ODiV at 7:21 PM on October 9, 2016

We were all in the last election thread (warning: 2,578 comments) before the debate thread, so a lot of the context happened in there. It was a short event he claimed was "debate prep" but was really four women from the 90s Bill Clinton scandals attacking Hillary.
posted by zachlipton at 7:27 PM on October 9, 2016

Was there something deleted at the beginning about whatever Trump's "stunt" was?

It's the "shitshow" link at the front of the FPP.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:12 PM on October 9, 2016

Duh, right in the first sentence! Sorry.
posted by ODiV at 8:53 PM on October 9, 2016

so like. I have had some wine. But when are we using 'oh my god. tear this dude apart' for the FPP title?
posted by dogheart at 10:27 PM on October 9, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just want to say how much I appreciate the mods' willingness to take on the task of moderating these election/debate threads. They could perfectly well say "No politics on MeFi till after the election!" and delete every attempted post and kick back with their favorite tipple. But no, they allow us these addictive threads, piling up thousands of comments in a few hours, and patiently sit there monitoring and deleting and leaving polite little notes reminding us not to act like small children hopped up on Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. They are saints, and I hope when the election is over they shut down MeFi for a week (hey, Matt did it!) and go to a remote island and recuperate.
posted by languagehat at 7:11 AM on October 10, 2016 [7 favorites]

Reading through the thread. I decided not to watch the debate, or follow it live, as the thought of live watching a self-acknowledged sexual predator throw accusations at a woman was too much. I'm up to about 30 minutes into the debate (as commented on in the thread) and thinking:

- Anderson Cooper is a God.
- The mods are not far behind for managing to mod this and the thread being pretty smooth and free-flowing to read, so far.
- Highly related to that, and again so far on read MeFite's were on point last night and this is an excellent thread.
- I can't comment on my worsening (and it was already low) opinion of him and hopes for what happens to him as either the mods would quickly (and rightly) remove it, or the police would be knocking on my door in an hour.

I need tea before going back in.
posted by Wordshore at 9:01 AM on October 10, 2016

That suggestion in a previous comment by languagehat about shutting down MeFi for a week, or maybe a few days soon after the election - y'know, that's actually a seriously interesting one. By shutting down, not accepting new content (posts, comments) for a few days but still keeping it live (or, replacing the whole site with just a picture of a cat) - this could be an interesting short-term experiment.

And it could be healthy for the mods; also healthy for many other MeFites; would break the 24/7 dependency cycle it's easy to get into; and would add to MetaFilters "we do things a little differently here" reputation. Does a social media thing absolutely, religiously, have to be live 24/7 at all - especially human - costs?

And, if he chose not to take a break, frimble may be able to quietly do some things to the website that are much more difficult to do when it's in full comment flow.
posted by Wordshore at 9:05 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

this could be an interesting short-term experiment.

Feel free to check the MetaTalk archives for the word "experiment" and get some surprising feedback on why that is unlikely to be happening (tho I agree it's a good idea)
posted by jessamyn (retired) at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think I suggested this in another thread (re: mefi shutting down for US holidays), but you could just close it for Americans. :)
posted by ODiV at 10:38 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

We even have the perfect Hamilton post-election thread title: "Take a break"
posted by zachlipton at 10:44 AM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

> replacing the whole site with just a picture of a cat

You just won my vote.
posted by languagehat at 10:51 AM on October 10, 2016 [1 favorite]

I don't know about shutting the whole site down, but maybe like, "any FPPs likely to cause heavy mod need are deleted with extreme prejudice"?
posted by corb at 10:54 AM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

We should redirect MetaFilter to TinyKittens Livestreams of The Hayloft Flyers (named because they were found when one of them literally fell out of a hayloft when the site was being scouted for an epic Trap-Neuter-Release project) with sometimes attendance of Metric Kittens (Zetta's four remaining kittens found at the same site) and the Livestream of Starling with her six kittens (thank the gods she gave birth at TinyKittens Headquarters where she had help with the birth).
posted by Deoridhe at 11:45 AM on October 10, 2016 [4 favorites]

But when are we using 'oh my god. tear this dude apart' for the FPP title?

It's the working title of the final debate thread.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:19 PM on October 10, 2016 [3 favorites]

DEORIDHE IS DOING GOD'S WORK.
posted by corb at 5:36 PM on October 10, 2016 [2 favorites]

If, God willing, we make it to an actual Election Day thread, I humbly suggest either

"We will fight up close, seize the moment and stay in it"

or

"You have your orders now, go, man, go!"
posted by whuppy at 8:24 AM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

There is the real possibility that the future will view our interest in Hamilton as being similar to the way we view the past's interest in 1776: As a weird moment when an American history class became a musical.
posted by maxsparber at 9:45 AM on October 11, 2016 [4 favorites]

If you're gonna go the referential route, why aren't there thread titles named after like Lemonade or Mad Max Fury Road or Run The Jewels or any of the other really interesting cultural phenomena from that time period?

Fury Road is only indirectly about US politics.
posted by zamboni at 9:46 AM on October 11, 2016

I think the future MeFite is more likely to be amazed at all these other posts that aren't Hamilton references.
posted by Etrigan at 10:01 AM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

There is the real possibility that the future will view our interest in Hamilton as being similar to the way we view the past's interest in 1776: As a weird moment when an American history class became a musical.

As an aside, 1776 holds up better than I thought it would.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:49 AM on October 11, 2016

Nearing 4K on the last debate thread. New post?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:46 AM on October 11, 2016

If someone wants to do that, we're ok with it.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 11:55 AM on October 11, 2016

Fury Road is only indirectly about US politics.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:05 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm kind of focused on the debates, so if anyone wants to do a straight up election thread (no title tags, please!) go for it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:52 PM on October 11, 2016

{Raises hand} I will and have started one. Need an hour, so it will be up around 5pm Eastern. If anyone else is working on, please say here and will defer to yours.
posted by Wordshore at 12:57 PM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

New election post is live.
posted by Wordshore at 2:04 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

i will kiss the poster who makes an election thread titled 'My name is Hamilton and I'm here to say'
posted by beerperson at 2:19 PM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

Is there analytics information available for the election threads? I'm idly curious as to how many people (like me) are just refreshing them constantly without posting. How are they doing relative to some of the other most popular MeFi threads? In an ideal world, I'd love to know how much more HRC and groups like ActBlue have raised since the Access Hollywood tapes came out.
posted by kinsey at 3:28 PM on October 11, 2016

I know things are moving super fast, and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, but can we try to search, say, the current thread and the last one for the headlines of stories before posting them? Sometimes things get missed because the headlines change, but I'm seeing a lot of straight duplicates. I'm getting my outrage meter all ramped up only to realize I was already appalled by a particular article or tweet, and then I have to go find something new to despair about.
posted by zachlipton at 3:30 PM on October 11, 2016 [3 favorites]

Yeah, fair point. That Election FPP didn't turn out as well as I hoped/wanted it to. I perhaps stupidly committed on here to getting it done in an hour, which alerted the gods to start repeatedly killing my wifi (at one point, I lost five unique links, *sob*). Hence there's not as much original content in it as would have liked.

Also, found I was somewhat more restricted by the nature of much of the news reports around the debate. Am aware from friends bailing on social media that much of Trump's rhetoric (current and 2005) and non-verbal actions e.g. that creepy and intimidating standing right behind Hillary during the debate, is triggering for some or many, so quite a few possible items that could have gone into the FPP were "that may not be good for some people to see again".

It's interesting, as a side point, how the culture around election threads has developed over the last nine months. There does seem to be a different feel around this part of MetaFilter, and the wiki highlights some tangible evolutions, since last spring and early summer.
posted by Wordshore at 4:07 PM on October 11, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think zachlipton was referring to duplicate posts in the comments. I agree as it's a simple measure to search for a headline before posting.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:39 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

I agree with Wordshore. I've spent so much time in election threads that it's almost weird when I leave and go to another part of the Blue, the culture is just different enough that it's noticeable.
posted by corb at 4:42 PM on October 11, 2016 [1 favorite]

There are threads other than election threads?
posted by Justinian at 7:03 PM on October 11, 2016 [9 favorites]

Yes Wordshore, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was talking about situations where some articles end up getting posted as comments multiple times (at least without a "yep, I know this was posted before, but look at this specific thing in it I want to talk about" situation). I think it makes a lot of sense and is helpful to repost some articles inside the FPP as a summary of the current situation, and think the new FPP is great, my pain at the title notwithstanding.
posted by zachlipton at 9:53 PM on October 11, 2016

I'm prepping the next debate thread, FWIW. We'll likely need one or two meanwhile, if someone wants to start on it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:16 PM on October 12, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm prepping the next debate thread, FWIW. We'll likely need one or two meanwhile, if someone wants to start on it.

Have started pulling this together, so calling dibs on it. It'll contain things e.g. Ballotpedia that should have gone inside the current annoyingly rush-jobbed FPP but didn't make it. Open to suggestions on other content. I'll figure out how to highlight e.g. links to articles in The Onion, as [fake] in some clearer way.

When: There's (calculates) roughly a week minus ten hours before ChurchHatesTucker makes the debate FPP live, and with the current election FPP at nearly 2,000 comments it's going to probably grind down well before then. Depending on the ebb and flow of comments, provisionally thinking the straight election FPP would probably go up in the late weekend or early Monday, giving three days before the debate one kicks in. But, as said, depending...

Title: I'm neutral on the whole Hamilton thing which seems a bit of a derail, so to appease all points of view the working title of the post is currently:

"[ELECTION 2016] [ELECTION 2016] [ELECTION 2016] [ELECTION 2016] [ELECTION 2016]"

Somewhere in Baltimore, a MeFite screams "Noooooooooo..."
posted by Wordshore at 3:21 AM on October 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

Related to the last two comments. If someone wants to call dibs / have a go at doing a US election FPP but wants/needs some time to pull one together, then guess they could call dibs on the one that will come after the debate one. That gives a week plus to think, research and pull one together.

Might be a nice one for someone who hasn't done an FPP, or a US election FPP, before. Also, post-debate, we'll be into the final straight, with no more debates and less than three weeks before (non-early voting) polling day, so not many more FPPs in this election to go.

Mods cheer, throw confetti, play party music, do samba around HQ main office on MetaFilter island

Though if you miss the opportunity, then I guess there's 754 days till the 2018 mid-term elections.

Cortex begins to load shotgun, aims in this direction
posted by Wordshore at 3:35 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Future thread title suggestions:

So time to pay the piper for the pants you unbuckled
This Congress does not speak for me
Hey...
Say no to this!
Fuuuu—
posted by zachlipton at 11:28 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

Possible debate title: I Hope You're Satisfied.
posted by Deoridhe at 4:40 PM on October 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

The next election (not debate) FPP is, apart from breaking news, as good as done. After chatting with Moderator Island HQ, will start monitoring the current live FPP for creaking and groaning from tomorrow.

The working title is currently:

Fuckface Von Clownstick: the Reckoning
posted by Wordshore at 4:41 PM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

So, uh, the Hamilton headlines are kaput?

Sad.
posted by notyou at 4:43 PM on October 13, 2016 [2 favorites]

So, uh, the Hamilton headlines are kaput?

Not kaput, but only guaranteed in the debate threads (we're not Fark, FFS.)
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:00 PM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]

How are people's browsers holding up on the current election thread? It's over 3,100 comments but seems okayish, though a bit slow to reload, on my devices. Your devices may differ - how is it? I have a new election post complete and waiting in the wings. Going out to pick blackberries for an hour or so (avoiding screen time and clearing head), then will come back and link-check, and see how people think the current thread is doing.
posted by Wordshore at 7:00 AM on October 14, 2016

Getting slow, especially on my phone.
posted by Etrigan at 8:21 AM on October 14, 2016

Original iPad Air is groaning a bit. I have to force-quit Safari every so often or things go wonky.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:32 AM on October 14, 2016

in a combine harvester with no suspension. every part of me is shaking. noisy as hell. five acres left to cut so back in a few hours and will do quick link check and make finished fpp live oh maybe should not text and harvest at same time laters
posted by Wordshore at 9:00 AM on October 14, 2016 [7 favorites]

WORDSHORE I AM NOT GOING TO BE THE PERSON WHO HAS TO WRITE A METATALK POST WITH THE PHRASE "...accident involving a combine harvester..." IN IT
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:04 AM on October 14, 2016 [13 favorites]

Already prepping it.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:23 AM on October 14, 2016

Is this thread where we call dibs on Wordshore's obit post?
posted by Etrigan at 9:27 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Let's make sure it has a Hamilton lyric as its title to really annoy him.
posted by zachlipton at 9:51 AM on October 14, 2016 [4 favorites]

Somewhere past 3K my 3rd gen iPad gives up trying to find the last comment before the whole page loads.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:06 AM on October 14, 2016

Can we get back to politics? (Please?!)
posted by mbrubeck at 10:45 AM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Back. Undeceased (you are a morbid lot). Link checking; new election FPP very shortly.
posted by Wordshore at 11:12 AM on October 14, 2016 [2 favorites]

The new Election FPP is live.
posted by Wordshore at 11:32 AM on October 14, 2016

So, uh, the Hamilton headlines are kaput?

I'm not anti-Hamilton, just neutral and unknowledgeable about it. It's mainly slid by me these last few months, like many other things; England hasn't been a great place for political reasons to be online so I reduced non-work screen time greatly and stepped (often far) away from it all [summer] [autumn]. Hence I've only a vague awareness of a musical in the USA that many friends and colleagues there say is great.

I did have several potential titles for the FPP that's just gone up, including two which made reference to Hamilton. However, the bleakness and darkness of how this election has turned in the last week (and it wasn't a total barrel of laughs before), with people on MetaFilter, social media, IRL, being triggered or deeply upset by the vileness of revelations and their apologists/defenders, meant it just felt inappropriate to do a fun or funny or jokey title for this post. And I've kept coming back to Michelle Obama's speech repeatedly this last day or so as, personally, the one shining light and standout speech that I hope is noted and remembered historically.

Hence I just ditched (nearly) all of the humor in the FPP at the last minute, and took that particular line from Michelle's speech for the post title.
posted by Wordshore at 11:48 AM on October 14, 2016 [1 favorite]

On read back "...and their apologists/defenders" means (my asum dialect is odd to most) "...and Trump's apologists/defenders"

Right; time to go see if the new post has gotten any comments yet...
posted by Wordshore at 12:31 PM on October 14, 2016

Election threads containing Hamilton quotes in the thread title (any Hamilton, apparently) appear to be far less painful (and they're all damn painful).
posted by zachlipton at 1:34 PM on October 14, 2016 [3 favorites]

Current election thread is on 2,150 comments. Have started to prepare the next non-debate election FPP. ChurchHatesTucker has the next/final debate FPP in hand. 22 days to election day.
posted by Wordshore at 7:06 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

The debate is on Wednesday. It would be kind of lovely if we could make it to Wednesday evening without a new thread unless there's something substantially new to talk about.
posted by zachlipton at 9:51 AM on October 17, 2016 [2 favorites]

I would like that as well. Current one will probably be a creaker by then but I think it should be survivable.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:55 AM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

uh oh, that is what the so-called competent professional in the disaster movie says just before the cataclysmic event strikes
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:17 AM on October 17, 2016 [4 favorites]

cortex it's like you've never even watched a horror movie.
posted by corb at 11:30 AM on October 17, 2016 [3 favorites]

I would like that as well. Current one will probably be a creaker by then but I think it should be survivable.

Splendid; I'm off the grid until the weekend then. It's the tail-end of cutting season and they're unexpectedly a (two-armed) man down for unfortunate reasons in these crepuscular days, so will be back in the combine harvester seat, undertaking the clearing of various fields. And desiring that this time, the frankly deaf/stupid/suicidal wild rabbits in the neighborhood choose to flee away from me, rather than towards me.

My half-done FPP is relatively future-proofed and can be finished and rolled out if needed elsewhere in the last few weeks of this election. Hope Wednesday's debate is boring, until the point Trump unexpectedly spontaneously combusts.
posted by Wordshore at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2016 [1 favorite]

Only today realized that 'My MeFi' could be set as a shortcut to election threads.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:10 AM on October 18, 2016

Only today realized that 'My MeFi' could be set as a shortcut to election threads.

Huh?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:51 AM on October 18, 2016

Just set MyMeFi to only display posts with the election2016 tag (or whatever tag it is people are using).
posted by Dysk at 9:22 AM on October 18, 2016 [5 favorites]

Son of a gun.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:47 AM on October 18, 2016 [1 favorite]

Trying to post with lynx. Text browsing works well...

Seeing this got me to finally try the new eww web browser in emacs. Not bad.

Getting a wee bit hardcore, especially running a browser inside emacs.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2016

(Briefly on the Internet post-harvesting for the day. Number of rabbits who hurled themselves into the blades of the combine harvester today = thankfully zero)

I'd totally forgotten about the My MeFi Preferences until a few days ago as it's not visible from some screens. When logged in, it allows you to add favorite tags and/or excluded tags. Useful if e.g. Brexit or soccer or other subjects set you off in a rage just at the word.
posted by Wordshore at 1:15 PM on October 18, 2016 [2 favorites]

Getting a wee bit hardcore, especially running a browser inside emacs.

Once they get a text editor in emacs, I'm totally there.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:25 PM on October 18, 2016 [4 favorites]

I think you're looking for spacemacs. (Sorry for the derail.)
posted by Coventry at 12:39 PM on October 19, 2016

Preview of live links (some start coverage early):

YouTube's channels in English (NBC, PBS, Fox News, the Washington Post, the New York Times, C-SPAN) and Spanish (Univision, Telemundo.) Twitter will stream Bloomberg. Facebook has ABC and PBS. C-SPAN has its own feed (C-SPAN Radio is also streaming.) You can watch in virtual reality (Gear, Rift, or Vive) via AltspaceVR
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:58 PM on October 19, 2016 [1 favorite]

Nearing 4K in the debate thread. Has Wordshore got a post together or has he met an ironic bunny fate?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:46 AM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

#NextThread title suggestion: "Every proclamation guarantees free ammunition for your enemies"
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on October 21, 2016 [2 favorites]

Am updating the half-finished post I had previously, so I could go with something postable in an hour or so. How are people's browsers holding up? I've got one slight slow and one quite slow on the current thread. Mods?
posted by Wordshore at 1:05 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'm fine with you going forward with it this afternoon, yeah. Current one has gotten quite large and might be suffering from one or another brand of Election Madness besides at this point that a clean start might get away from.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:07 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

I fell like we're all getting a bit of cabin fever since there's not a ton of news to begin with and we're randomly cut off from big chunks of the internet because of the DDoS attack, leaving us all cooped up in the thread.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

On it; new post will be up in a little while {munches on guacamole dip for fuel and inspiration, continues to update links).
posted by Wordshore at 1:30 PM on October 21, 2016 [1 favorite]

A new election post is now live.
posted by Wordshore at 2:17 PM on October 21, 2016

Based on the (vague) assumptions that a weekend day attracts c. 500 comments, a weekday attracts 1,000 comments, and threads become unworkable for many around 4,000 comments, it looks like around three more FPPs may be needed before election day.

(That goes out of the window if something major - by the scale of this election - happens e.g. Trump quits, or spontaneously combusts; or, if nothing happens and people get bored and wander off before election day)

Inspired by Phil Collins (seriously), I've started to tap out the shell of another election FPP if/when it is needed, but I suspect people will be tired/bored of Wordshore election FPPs soon, if not already. Does someone else - you - want to do one? Riches, new opportunities, and thousands of comments on your post, guaranteed!*

Also, new MetaTalk: Get Yer Voting Stories Here!

* only one of these three things is actually guaranteed.
posted by Wordshore at 12:38 PM on October 22, 2016

Current thread is ~600 comments, so we've got a few days.

*knocks wood*
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:08 PM on October 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

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