Can I search within a search? Show me please.

August 4, 2014 4:52 PM

Is there a "search within a search" function that I haven't figured out? What I mean is: Can I do a first search, then search within those first results to narrow down the list? This is about my search skills specific to the site rather than site lack.

I used to have no problem finding really spot on posts and comments on specific topics back when links were showing up via google. But I'm having a terrible time using the site's search functions and I've lurked on the site for about 3 years.

I recently figured out that the search box searches the specific site that one is on (Ask v. Talk, etc.), which was a wonderful realization. I've read the various discussions on tag-usage pros and cons, but I haven't been able to make tag-searches work for me. I end up reading a lot of great posts because of my inability to search well, which is enjoyable, but sometimes I really need an answer now.

I have a feeling that this is something folks are doing all the time, but I somehow haven't been able to figure it out, even after reading through lots and lots of threads. To be specific, here is the question that I just spent an inordinate amount of time trying to look up via search: (warning: bowel talk)

Why are my bowels the consistency of really sticky tar? It's not just constipation. I've had that and can remedy it. This new-kind-of-constipation is new (past 2-3 weeks) and annoying. I want to poo and go like I normally do. Coffee: yes. Fruits/veggies: yes. Could use more water: true. Bran/fiber: yes. Even fiber pills: yes. Nothing has changed the consistency and sped things along. Did I maybe have too much psyllium one day? I had about 1.5-2 tablespoons once maybe two weeks ago, but that's it.

To give one example of my search process: I went to the Askme site and searched: tar bowel movement consistency poo

I was given a list of tags. I clicked on a tag (tar), but nothing close came up. I clicked on bowel movement, but have read through many of those and cannot spend the time right now wading through them, interesting though they are.

I wish I could do a search for "bowel movement," then within those results, search for tar-like. or something like that.

Please show me how to do this. Thank you and sorry if this is inappropriate for metatalk. If a contact form is better, please let me know.

(I am lame at tags. Just look at how I tagged this question. Feel free to edit.)

posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot to MetaFilter-Related at 4:52 PM (19 comments total)

There's no specific search-within-a-search facility with the built in site search, no.

Generally speaking for me it comes down to experimenting with variations on keywords and slowly narrowing things down; so if I'm pretty darned sure that "bowel" and "movement" are good leads, I'll search on those two terms first and see how broad the results are; if it's a couple dozen hits, I'll skim through all of them and see if something turns up, but if it's in the hundreds I'll try adding one term at a time and seeing if I get an acceptably narrower set of results, swapping out the additional keyword each time. So e.g. bowel movement consistency, bowel movement tar, bowel movement unusual, etc.

One thing that I find helpful when I'm searching is to look at not just posts/questions but also comments/answers, especially if it's a narrow topic where I'm not finding more than a handful of results for a reasonable search; any given askme is going to have a bunch of answers, so there's a great chance that someone in an answer will have used keywords that will lead you indirectly to a relevant question that just didn't use the keyword combinations you were trying in the question text.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:57 PM on August 4, 2014

You can do a site-specific search on Google.

Go to the Google search bar and type in site:ask.metafilter.com and then type in your search terms after the space (e.g. site:ask.metafilter.com bowel movement sticky constipation). That returns 42 results (3 pages, the third page only has 2 results on it - the number of results returned written by Google is 53,000 and is thus vastly inflated). Many of these results look relevant including these threads:
Why are some poops dirtier than others
I'm not a hater I just flush a lot
How to fix sticky poop
What is in my water that has caused changes to my um bowel movements
What makes feces sticky
And more.

I first tried searching for "site:ask.metafilter.com bowel movement tar" but that didn't really get me anywhere (I got 2 irrelevant-looking results), so I changed "tar" to "sticky" because that was your other descriptive word in your question.

Google doesn't allow "search within results" - but when they did offer it, they simply appended your new search terms on to your existing terms, so it wasn't doing anything special anyhow.

Hope this helps. I prefer searching Metafilter through Google rather than using the search functions provided here. I have never found tags to be particularly useful for finding specific information - they're much more conducive to wandering and browsing.
posted by sockermom at 5:16 PM on August 4, 2014 [5 favorites]

Oh another general search strategy is to use either more or less-specific words depending on the results you're getting so far. So for example "bowel movement" and 'feces" are more medical and formal than "poop" and might be used less frequently as a result. Sometimes I even use a thesaurus to help me find other words to substitute in if the results I am getting are unsatisfactory.
posted by sockermom at 5:23 PM on August 4, 2014 [1 favorite]

I can't help but if I manage to successfully pitch Bowel Talk to NPR, I'll buy you a drink.
posted by griphus at 5:27 PM on August 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

When you add keywords to your search it's like you are searching within those results. For example, you searched for "bowel movement" and got some results that were too broad. Adding the word "tar" is like searching for "tar" within those results. So if "bowel movement tar" doesn't return anything—that means "tar" was not found within those initial results.

The local site search is a very simple keyword search. You might switch to Google to do more complex things like excluding words. Even though MetaFilter's Google pagerank has declined, Google is still indexing every page. And if you specify site:ask.metafilter.com in your search, you should be searching the entire Ask MetaFilter archive.
posted by pb (staff) at 5:31 PM on August 4, 2014 [2 favorites]

"bowel movement tar"?

Really. What an ... odd .. example.

(Dude. Eat more fruit.)
posted by dotgirl at 6:42 PM on August 4, 2014

I don't see why it's an odd example. It's a serious question and I want to know how I can most effectively search for an answer. Most of the answers above have been very helpful. Thank you.
posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot at 10:10 PM on August 4, 2014 [4 favorites]

griphus, NPR would be crazy not to sign on.
posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot at 10:15 PM on August 4, 2014

Speaking of search, in the default theme the search box is located on top, but in the professional white background at bottom. Any chance of changing the latter so it's also on top, as it trips me up something fierce everytime I try to search...
posted by MartinWisse at 12:50 AM on August 5, 2014

"bowel movement tar"?

Really. What an ... odd .. example.

(Dude. Eat more fruit.)
posted by dotgirl

I'm not a doctor, but I can testify that black, tarry stools are often caused by intestinal bleeding, which requires immediate medical intervention. Get thee to a doctor.
posted by Daddy-O at 5:24 AM on August 5, 2014 [2 favorites]

Get thee to a doctor

And don't eat it.
posted by 724A at 6:24 AM on August 5, 2014

'tarry stool' is probably a more efficient search string. Unless of course you're searching for bowel_movement.tar...
posted by Pudhoho at 7:07 AM on August 5, 2014

Any chance of changing the latter so it's also on top, as it trips me up something fierce everytime I try to search...

No, sorry, I don't think we're likely to rearrange the plain theme header to add a search box. But the plain theme does have a Search link in the top row of links on the left. You can always click that to go to a search form.
posted by pb (staff) at 7:28 AM on August 5, 2014

I don't know if you copy/pasted the post excerpt, but perhaps it's worth noting that the question as posted here doesn't contain the word "movement," which was one of your search terms.
posted by obloquy at 10:45 AM on August 5, 2014

1) InfoSeek's "Search within results" feature was the most useful thing ever. I miss InfoSeek.

2) Why won't NBC just let me watch the 1996 Mark McKinney SNL skit 'Fecal Matters' on Hulu?
posted by usonian at 3:22 PM on August 5, 2014

I usually search with multiple tags at once to solve this kind of problem (i.e. for your example, you'd load the page "http://ask.metafilter.com/tags/tar+bowelmovement" - alas, no results). Then I'd move on to trying combinations of similar tags, especially ones that seem popular ("constipation+chronic", perhaps). Or just a single tag (constipation?) if there aren't a lot of Asks to wade through for it.

It's not as good as a search within a search, but it does work pretty well if people tag their posts reasonably logically, and if you try a few different tags.
posted by randomnity at 6:13 PM on August 6, 2014

randomnity: how does one do a multiple-tag search? Is that the same as a multiple keyword search? Is the "+" sign part of it? I copied and pasted the link you provided and tried to work backwards, but couldn't figure out your process.

I also tried clicking on "Tags" at the top of the page, which took me to the usual list of varyingly-sized words. I don't think you mean that there is a way to click on more than one of those words at once, do you?

I realize that sometimes a search won't bring up useful results, but I appreciate the help with improving my process!
posted by RaRa-SpaceRobot at 9:54 PM on August 6, 2014

how does one do a multiple-tag search? Is that the same as a multiple keyword search? Is the "+" sign part of it?

That's the way. The URL is:

ask.metafilter.com/tags/tag1+tag2

Just enter your own tags in the place of tag1 and tag2.

I also tried clicking on "Tags" at the top of the page, which took me to the usual list of varyingly-sized words. I don't think you mean that there is a way to click on more than one of those words at once, do you?

Those are the most common tags. If you click on one of them, you'll open the first page of posts with that tag, and down the right hand side of the page, you'll see closely-associated tags. If you click on the + next to one of those tags, it'll do a combined search.

Or you can just input any two tags, following the formula above.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 3:26 AM on August 7, 2014 [1 favorite]

I don't think you mean that there is a way to click on more than one of those words at once, do you?

Yep! Exactly what paleyellowwithorange said. It's pretty useful, I find.
posted by randomnity at 7:21 AM on August 7, 2014