Another Flag Category? March 6, 2014 5:19 PM Subscribe
Similar to fffm's pony request from January, I wonder whether it would be possible to add another flag category or two.
Someone posted a useful link in the Newsweek Doxxes Satoshi Nakamoto thread, and I think it would be helpful if it was easy to find. I flagged it as "Fantastic Comment," but there's really no content, just the link to additional info. (Maybe Fantastic Comment is OK, or maybe I should just MYOB?)
Someone posted a useful link in the Newsweek Doxxes Satoshi Nakamoto thread, and I think it would be helpful if it was easy to find. I flagged it as "Fantastic Comment," but there's really no content, just the link to additional info. (Maybe Fantastic Comment is OK, or maybe I should just MYOB?)
Maybe I'm missing it, but what categories do you think we should add?
fffm's pony request is for a separator between positive and negatives, and the link to the Newsweek thread doesn't go to a specific link. I think?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:31 PM on March 6, 2014
fffm's pony request is for a separator between positive and negatives, and the link to the Newsweek thread doesn't go to a specific link. I think?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:31 PM on March 6, 2014
I'm not sure I understand what your goal in flagging it was, if the fantastic flag wasn't going to work. How did you want to make it easier to find? Do you mean having a way to mark it visibly in the thread for other users so they would find it more easily?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:44 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:44 PM on March 6, 2014
Maybe if there was some kind of system where people could publicly 'favorite' comments, so that you could see which contributions other users found noteworthy.
posted by zamboni at 5:50 PM on March 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 5:50 PM on March 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
I actually think revamping the flags entirely would be great since I feel like there's a lot of overlap and I seldom know which one I should actually use. I think maybe they'd be easier and more effective if you could tell exactly what effect they would have? I would propose something like:
-Offensive/derail
-Worth keeping an eye on
-Double/HTML/display error
-Fantastic
-I know this won't get deleted but it's bothering me so I want to flag it instead of responding
One problem is that sometimes I want to call mod attention to something but don't think it should be deleted so having that be a separate option ("worth keeping an eye on") would be sort of nice.
Basically, the wording doesn't really matter but I think flags that basically meant "I think this should be deleted", "This might go somewhere bad so just a heads up on that", "Simple HTML/display fix", and "fantastic" would work well.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:51 PM on March 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
-Offensive/derail
-Worth keeping an eye on
-Double/HTML/display error
-Fantastic
-I know this won't get deleted but it's bothering me so I want to flag it instead of responding
One problem is that sometimes I want to call mod attention to something but don't think it should be deleted so having that be a separate option ("worth keeping an eye on") would be sort of nice.
Basically, the wording doesn't really matter but I think flags that basically meant "I think this should be deleted", "This might go somewhere bad so just a heads up on that", "Simple HTML/display fix", and "fantastic" would work well.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:51 PM on March 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
I could see having a flag that applies to the kind of meta-disagreements that are not allowed as comments in MetaFilter threads but that don't necessarily warrant a MetaTalk post. For example, "I consider this moderator action to be overzealous." That type of feedback.
posted by Jeff Howard at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Jeff Howard at 5:54 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I've re-read that and it sounded kind of presumptuous which was not my intention. Sorry!
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:55 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:55 PM on March 6, 2014
"One problem is that sometimes I want to call mod attention to something but don't think it should be deleted so having that be a separate option ("worth keeping an eye on") would be sort of nice."
I think I've been using the "Other" flag for this.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:58 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think I've been using the "Other" flag for this.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:58 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
The mods talked a little bit about a minor changing/simplification/clarification of the flag options --along the lines Mrs Pterodactyl is talking about -- a few months ago. I definitely am sympathetic. It's one of these things where the existing structure is workable but imperfect and it just cries out (to word nerds) for tweaking. Our discussion of it sort of petered out, partly IIRC because there are contradictory impulses - some members want them more granular and some want them simpler and so on. I'll be interested to hear what people have to say here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:59 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 5:59 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Do you mean having a way to mark it visibly in the thread for other users so they would find it more easily?
Yes, something along those lines. In fact, it would be neat if you could mark things sort of like "Best Answer" in AskMe. Just something so it catches your eye as you scroll down one of those long threads.
posted by spacewrench at 5:59 PM on March 6, 2014
Yes, something along those lines. In fact, it would be neat if you could mark things sort of like "Best Answer" in AskMe. Just something so it catches your eye as you scroll down one of those long threads.
posted by spacewrench at 5:59 PM on March 6, 2014
How about if the Flag button just went directly to the Contact form so you could Tell A Mod what's on your mind? (I'm serious.)
posted by SLC Mom at 6:07 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by SLC Mom at 6:07 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
One problem is that sometimes I want to call mod attention to something but don't think it should be deleted so having that be a separate option ("worth keeping an eye on") would be sort of nice.
"Keep an eye on this please" would be an excellent option for those FPPs where you see them go up and your heart just sinks. I don't think it'd be appropriate to flag them immediately, but some kind of obvious "This looks like it is going south" option would be nice for when those threads start to reach a tipping point.
posted by hoyland at 6:09 PM on March 6, 2014
"Keep an eye on this please" would be an excellent option for those FPPs where you see them go up and your heart just sinks. I don't think it'd be appropriate to flag them immediately, but some kind of obvious "This looks like it is going south" option would be nice for when those threads start to reach a tipping point.
posted by hoyland at 6:09 PM on March 6, 2014
spacewrench: To be frank, I think that is probably a non-starter. (Who would be allowed to mark a comment that way - any reader? just the original poster? Would markings from multiple people be cumulative somehow?) I think the "favorite" function serves something like this purpose now, in that if a lot of people favorite a comment, people reading the thread can see that a comment has gotten a high number of favorites.
It's also always fine -- sometimes better than favoriting -- to leave a comment in the thread calling people's attention to the link: "hey, So-and-so's link is really useful, it gives a great explanation of such-and-such".
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:09 PM on March 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's also always fine -- sometimes better than favoriting -- to leave a comment in the thread calling people's attention to the link: "hey, So-and-so's link is really useful, it gives a great explanation of such-and-such".
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:09 PM on March 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think the "favorite" function serves something like this purpose now
Yeah, you're right about the potential problem of people flagging any random thing, so all the comments end up being star-bellied Sneeches.
How 'bout a colorization scheme that shows the number of favorites? Like, the background gets lighter or darker or redder or whatever. That would help find possibly-significant comments (plus funny comments from The Whelk) in a long list.
posted by spacewrench at 6:14 PM on March 6, 2014
Yeah, you're right about the potential problem of people flagging any random thing, so all the comments end up being star-bellied Sneeches.
How 'bout a colorization scheme that shows the number of favorites? Like, the background gets lighter or darker or redder or whatever. That would help find possibly-significant comments (plus funny comments from The Whelk) in a long list.
posted by spacewrench at 6:14 PM on March 6, 2014
Well I still have no idea what was supposed to be flag-worthy. Can someone please link it here?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:15 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by Room 641-A at 6:15 PM on March 6, 2014
We're not going to do anything site-wide that makes it easier to sort by number of favorites, no. People are already sort of ootchy about the effect of favorites on site culture, so we have no plans to make them more prominent.
But I'm pretty sure there is a Greasmonkey script that will allow you to read through a thread with the highly-favorited comments highlighted. Maybe the Metafilter Multifavorited Multiwidth one listed here?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
But I'm pretty sure there is a Greasmonkey script that will allow you to read through a thread with the highly-favorited comments highlighted. Maybe the Metafilter Multifavorited Multiwidth one listed here?
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I think some simplification would be good. Do mods really treat comments differently that are flagged offensive vs. noise vs. derail vs. it breaks the guidelines? I thought they had said many a time that when a flag is in one of these categories it doesn't really matter which one. I hope removing extraneous flag reasons would also reduce the frequency with which people ask for an unnecessarily specific new flag reason.
Despite that, I would like a flag for misuse of the edit window. I flag this when I see it happen, but usually nothing happens in response, and I wonder if that's because mods didn't realize that's why I flagged the comment. I could send an email via the contact form but that is a bit more heavyweight.
posted by grouse at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Despite that, I would like a flag for misuse of the edit window. I flag this when I see it happen, but usually nothing happens in response, and I wonder if that's because mods didn't realize that's why I flagged the comment. I could send an email via the contact form but that is a bit more heavyweight.
posted by grouse at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
How 'bout a colorization scheme that shows the number of favorites?
Won't happen. People are welcome to build some sort of Greasemonkey/Chrome extention thing, but we're not going to build any favorites-related thread viewing tools.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014
Won't happen. People are welcome to build some sort of Greasemonkey/Chrome extention thing, but we're not going to build any favorites-related thread viewing tools.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:19 PM on March 6, 2014
I think all flags should be emoticons instead of phrases:
:D (Awesome comment) o_0 (Something is fishy) $_$ (Pepsie blue) I_P (Flamebait) :7 (Trolling) (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ (Offensive/Racism/Sexism) htttp://0_x (HTML/Display error) ?_? (Other)posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:29 PM on March 6, 2014 [25 favorites]
...sort by number of favorites...
I wouldn't want that -- that's just Reddit, AIUI. But I guess Greasemonkey is the way to go.
Thanks for your work on the site, LM.
posted by spacewrench at 6:36 PM on March 6, 2014
I wouldn't want that -- that's just Reddit, AIUI. But I guess Greasemonkey is the way to go.
Thanks for your work on the site, LM.
posted by spacewrench at 6:36 PM on March 6, 2014
Here's one about flag visualization. Maybe some way to indicate that a particular comment is no longer in need of flagging because a moderator has already dealt with it (or allowed it to stand). Not a flag count, because that has its own problems. Basically something like: "Yes, we're aware of this. Please stop burying it in additional flags because clearing them manually is kind of a drag."
posted by Jeff Howard at 6:41 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by Jeff Howard at 6:41 PM on March 6, 2014
I like the flag for "worth keeping an eye on". I've been using the "other" flag for this purpose.
posted by arcticseal at 6:48 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 6:48 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
It would be great if stuff could be flagged as "useful resource" and stuff flagged as such was easily searchable. Super awesome great.
posted by windykites at 6:54 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by windykites at 6:54 PM on March 6, 2014
Especially because that could be totally distinct from the favourite system. Useful resources are not always what get the most favourites.
posted by windykites at 7:11 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by windykites at 7:11 PM on March 6, 2014
I've long supported better flag categories, and have used the contact form when I accidentally mis-select a flag option, because i'm fat-fingered. If we are choosing flag items, please add "punctilious killjoy"
posted by theora55 at 7:25 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by theora55 at 7:25 PM on March 6, 2014
This probably already exists, but this in your console will give all comments with 5 plus favs a red border. Feel free to modify/put in Greasemonkey or whatever.
$.each($('.comments .smallcopy').find('a:contains("favorites")'), function() {
var count = parseInt($(this).text());
if (count >= 5) {
$(this).closest('.comments').css('border', '1px solid red');
}
})
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
$.each($('.comments .smallcopy').find('a:contains("favorites")'), function() {
var count = parseInt($(this).text());
if (count >= 5) {
$(this).closest('.comments').css('border', '1px solid red');
}
})
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:37 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I'd love a "Hey mods something is suss" flag. Maybe call it "Needs Mod Attention"? "Page Mod"? Right now I've been using "Other" and "It breaks the guidelines" (although that second one is mostly in AskMe where I usually use it to indicate someone is threadsitting). Simpler and fewer categories would be better, since the mechanism for almost all of them is the same, right? If it's not fantastic or HTML error, the on-call mod comes by and sees what's up and takes action accordingly. Is that not what happens? I feel like now that there's 24-hour mods, the different categories are less important, particularly if it keeps people from using them.
posted by Mizu at 7:41 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 7:41 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yes, that is what happens; they all go to the same place, so don't worry too much about which flag to use under the current scheme. We'll almost always look at every flagged comment within a few minutes of its being flagged - the exception would be if there are very busy threads, or if we're composing an email, or something like that. If there's something that needs urgent attention, "breaks guidelines"/"offensive" will generally get looked at fastest. But all flags are looked at pretty quickly these days. If the problem with a comment/post isn't readily flaggable, just drop a note to the contact form.
As far as simplifying the flag options -- another function of the flag options is to do some general expectation-setting as far as what kinds of things are (in some cases) subject to mod intervention. We haven't wanted to simplify so much that we lose that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:51 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
As far as simplifying the flag options -- another function of the flag options is to do some general expectation-setting as far as what kinds of things are (in some cases) subject to mod intervention. We haven't wanted to simplify so much that we lose that.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:51 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
This bookmarklet will sort by number of favorites. There's also one which shows just the most favorited comments, but I cannot for the life of me find it.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:27 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by Chrysostom at 8:27 PM on March 6, 2014
I do think, based on many recent MeTas, it would be good to have a flag for "Mods, keep an eye on this." A lot of people have mentioned being reluctant to flag things that they find concerning but aren't flat-out rule-breaking, because they don't want to be tattling or they don't want to direct mod attention to something minor the same way they would to something major. If there was some sort of "This is getting fighty" or "This is going in an odd direction" or "Keep an eye over here" flag, people might be more willing to flag things early on BEFORE they get out of hand instead of waiting until people are bringing the full-on nastiness. Perhaps it could be called "Flag of Concern."
"Double Comment" could probably be collapsed with "HTML/display error" (from a user perspective). (Noise and Derail and maybe Guidelines probably could be too, but maybe other people interpret them differently.)
Do mods have any data on how things are flagged most often, or what flags are the most acted-upon? Or if not data, any generalizations from experience? My guess would be you get a lot of "other" and a lot of "racism/sexism/offensive" flags, but "noise" "derail" and "guidelines" get not a ton of flags and they're probably all pretty similar sorts of things (with "derail" getting far more use in Ask).
(And also I totally just accidentally flagged Chrysostom's comment while looking at the flagging categories and I do not even know what I flagged it as, sorry about that.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:34 PM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Double Comment" could probably be collapsed with "HTML/display error" (from a user perspective). (Noise and Derail and maybe Guidelines probably could be too, but maybe other people interpret them differently.)
Do mods have any data on how things are flagged most often, or what flags are the most acted-upon? Or if not data, any generalizations from experience? My guess would be you get a lot of "other" and a lot of "racism/sexism/offensive" flags, but "noise" "derail" and "guidelines" get not a ton of flags and they're probably all pretty similar sorts of things (with "derail" getting far more use in Ask).
(And also I totally just accidentally flagged Chrysostom's comment while looking at the flagging categories and I do not even know what I flagged it as, sorry about that.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:34 PM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
How about:
*Fantastic Post/Comment
*Technical Problem
*Content Problem
*Other/Contact Mods
The Other flag would take you right to the Contact Form with auto-added link to comment or post being flagged, if that is technically possible?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:54 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
*Fantastic Post/Comment
*Technical Problem
*Content Problem
*Other/Contact Mods
The Other flag would take you right to the Contact Form with auto-added link to comment or post being flagged, if that is technically possible?
posted by Rock Steady at 8:54 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
-Offensive/derail
-Worth keeping an eye on
-Double/HTML/display error
-Fantastic
-I know this won't get deleted but it's bothering me so I want to flag it instead of responding
I don't know why "double" would be merged with HTML errors or anything else; doubles are a perfectly clear and specific problem that wouldn't seem to benefit from being conflated with other problems. "Offensive/derail" seems to be motivated by the realization that sometimes offensiveness and derailing go together ... but often they don't. If there is an offensive derail, you can just choose one or the other and the mods will look at it either way. I don't know what "worth keeping an eye on" is supposed to mean in this context. I like the idea of the last one, as a way to blow off steam. For instance, OKCupid's contact form requires you to choose a category before contacting the admins, and one of them is (or used to be) "I'm really angry!!!" I'm guessing this caused them to receive fewer angry messages, by having a sense of humor about it. You'd need to come up with just the right way to phrase it.
posted by John Cohen at 9:17 PM on March 6, 2014
-Worth keeping an eye on
-Double/HTML/display error
-Fantastic
-I know this won't get deleted but it's bothering me so I want to flag it instead of responding
I don't know why "double" would be merged with HTML errors or anything else; doubles are a perfectly clear and specific problem that wouldn't seem to benefit from being conflated with other problems. "Offensive/derail" seems to be motivated by the realization that sometimes offensiveness and derailing go together ... but often they don't. If there is an offensive derail, you can just choose one or the other and the mods will look at it either way. I don't know what "worth keeping an eye on" is supposed to mean in this context. I like the idea of the last one, as a way to blow off steam. For instance, OKCupid's contact form requires you to choose a category before contacting the admins, and one of them is (or used to be) "I'm really angry!!!" I'm guessing this caused them to receive fewer angry messages, by having a sense of humor about it. You'd need to come up with just the right way to phrase it.
posted by John Cohen at 9:17 PM on March 6, 2014
Oh, just because "double" like HTML error isn't a complaint about content but about a technical problem. I don't know if for mods those two things work the same on the back end, but if there was a desire to consolidate flags, I think those two could be consolidated without much confusion or loss of function.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:28 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:28 PM on March 6, 2014
Basically something like: "Yes, we're aware of this. Please stop burying it in additional flags because clearing them manually is kind of a drag."
I've thought about that problem before some, yeah, and I get the idea behind the suggestion but in practice we'd more likely manage that on the admin side rather than the user-visible side.
In cases where extra flags on things we've already made up our minds are an issue at all, it's an issue because people are engaging in totally reasonable flagging behavior and just can't read our minds or aren't closely monitoring a relevant metatalk thread. So trying to communicate an extra complication along the lines of "don't flag in this case even though normally you should" seems like sending mixed messages in order to not really save most folks more than ten seconds wasted time every once in a great while.
Whereas we could set up an admin filter system where we basically check a box next to a reported flag to be like "stop surfacing flags on this thread for comments made before the current time" to quell that stuff silently while otherwise keeping the flag system unchanged. Mostly I think we have not done that because as much as it is annoying occasionally to deal with redundant flags, it's never been the kind of problem that actually significantly interferes with our ability to do work. Sort of a some-day, rainy-day, admin-side project, basically.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:38 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I've thought about that problem before some, yeah, and I get the idea behind the suggestion but in practice we'd more likely manage that on the admin side rather than the user-visible side.
In cases where extra flags on things we've already made up our minds are an issue at all, it's an issue because people are engaging in totally reasonable flagging behavior and just can't read our minds or aren't closely monitoring a relevant metatalk thread. So trying to communicate an extra complication along the lines of "don't flag in this case even though normally you should" seems like sending mixed messages in order to not really save most folks more than ten seconds wasted time every once in a great while.
Whereas we could set up an admin filter system where we basically check a box next to a reported flag to be like "stop surfacing flags on this thread for comments made before the current time" to quell that stuff silently while otherwise keeping the flag system unchanged. Mostly I think we have not done that because as much as it is annoying occasionally to deal with redundant flags, it's never been the kind of problem that actually significantly interferes with our ability to do work. Sort of a some-day, rainy-day, admin-side project, basically.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:38 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: shouting your hosannahs into the empty night
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:55 PM on March 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:55 PM on March 6, 2014 [4 favorites]
i'll throw in a vote for "worth keeping an eye on", both for threads AND comments where a single comment or the FPP isn't necessarily bad, but just seems like it'll stir up some bullshit.
posted by emptythought at 10:39 PM on March 6, 2014
posted by emptythought at 10:39 PM on March 6, 2014
Chrysostom, you might be thinking of SkimMetafilter by Idle Curiosity. His version removes less-favorited comments.
I forked his work to create a variant which dims less-favorited comments, leaves somewhat-favorited comments alone, and adds a "best answer"-style background color to top comments.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:17 PM on March 6, 2014
I forked his work to create a variant which dims less-favorited comments, leaves somewhat-favorited comments alone, and adds a "best answer"-style background color to top comments.
posted by daveliepmann at 11:17 PM on March 6, 2014
I'd love to see a "Come on, seriously?" flag. A lot of times you come across a nonsensical post from a known crank that is clearly a bad-faith argument, but isn't quite a derail.
posted by kafziel at 12:31 AM on March 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by kafziel at 12:31 AM on March 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Fantastic Comment
----
Technical Error
Offensive/Ism
Guideline Problem
Mod Attention Please
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:38 AM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
----
Technical Error
Offensive/Ism
Guideline Problem
Mod Attention Please
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:38 AM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
I understand the impulse for a "Keep An Eye On" flag, but I think the idea that we need a separate flag for it gives too much power to each individual flag. If you flag something as "Breaks Guidelines" or whatever that doesn't mean it is automatically going to be deleted, it just means that a mod is going to take a look at it and make their own decision about what (if anything) needs to be done.
I also do think it is important to retain the "Offensive" flag in some fashion. I neglected to put it in my proposed list above, but after posting, I remembered that the "offensive/sexism/racism" flag was altered specifically to call users attention to the fact that those things do break the MetaFilter guidelines, and that pointing that out in the flag name, while not strictly necessary from a behind-the-scenes viewpoint, was seen as important from a user viewpoint.
Also, flag names should be Capitalized.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:14 AM on March 7, 2014
I also do think it is important to retain the "Offensive" flag in some fashion. I neglected to put it in my proposed list above, but after posting, I remembered that the "offensive/sexism/racism" flag was altered specifically to call users attention to the fact that those things do break the MetaFilter guidelines, and that pointing that out in the flag name, while not strictly necessary from a behind-the-scenes viewpoint, was seen as important from a user viewpoint.
Also, flag names should be Capitalized.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:14 AM on March 7, 2014
LobsterMitten: It's also always fine -- sometimes better than favoriting -- to leave a comment in the thread calling people's attention to the link: "hey, So-and-so's link is really useful, it gives a great explanation of such-and-such".
Quoted for truth!
posted by carsonb at 8:03 AM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Quoted for truth!
posted by carsonb at 8:03 AM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
stop surfacing flags on this thread for comments made before the current time on the admin side
Makes sense. I don't always follow threads in real time and I'm never sure whether I'm just causing more static by flagging things you might already be aware of. Whenever I see a [mod voice] comment in a thread I use that as the line of scrimmage.
posted by Jeff Howard at 11:15 AM on March 7, 2014
Makes sense. I don't always follow threads in real time and I'm never sure whether I'm just causing more static by flagging things you might already be aware of. Whenever I see a [mod voice] comment in a thread I use that as the line of scrimmage.
posted by Jeff Howard at 11:15 AM on March 7, 2014
Well, it would be nice if we could explain what we mean when we flag something as "Other".
posted by Thorzdad at 12:03 PM on March 7, 2014
posted by Thorzdad at 12:03 PM on March 7, 2014
You totally can, just hit the contact form. Doesn't have to be a novel or anything.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:05 PM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes, that is what happens; they all go to the same place, so don't worry too much about which flag to use under the current scheme.
I submit, then, that all that is needed is a binary flag, and a counter. Posts / comments are either worthy of Mod attention, or they are not, and everything is running fine. I think we can trust the mods to know what the flags mean in context, and deal with them appropriately. That's what they get paid the big bucks for. :)
Failing that ultimate simplification, (i.e. making flags operate like Mod-facing favorites), have a positive flag and a negative flag. Flag up, or flag down. Mod-facing voting, if you will. I think that's a bit silly, but there you go.
posted by pjern at 12:25 PM on March 7, 2014
I submit, then, that all that is needed is a binary flag, and a counter. Posts / comments are either worthy of Mod attention, or they are not, and everything is running fine. I think we can trust the mods to know what the flags mean in context, and deal with them appropriately. That's what they get paid the big bucks for. :)
Failing that ultimate simplification, (i.e. making flags operate like Mod-facing favorites), have a positive flag and a negative flag. Flag up, or flag down. Mod-facing voting, if you will. I think that's a bit silly, but there you go.
posted by pjern at 12:25 PM on March 7, 2014
Anything with over 100 favorites should be highlighted, like best answers.
Either that our have a small flag placed beside it. An actual flag. Maybe Borneo's?
posted by blue_beetle at 12:42 PM on March 7, 2014
Either that our have a small flag placed beside it. An actual flag. Maybe Borneo's?
posted by blue_beetle at 12:42 PM on March 7, 2014
they all go to the same place
Okay, now I'm a little curious. Do you see the breakdown of why a comment was flagged if it was flagged for multiple reasons or simply an aggregate number of flags for that comment?
posted by Jeff Howard at 12:53 PM on March 7, 2014
Okay, now I'm a little curious. Do you see the breakdown of why a comment was flagged if it was flagged for multiple reasons or simply an aggregate number of flags for that comment?
posted by Jeff Howard at 12:53 PM on March 7, 2014
Here's a flickr image highlighting our two main windows into flagging behavior. These, especially the top one (what we generally refer to as "the flag queue"), are what we see all day every day when watching the site.
With the flag queue you can see we get both count and distinct types of flags but not an explicit count of how many of each type since that'd be a lot busier and in the odd cases where we really need to take a closer look, we can go to the actual thread or comment and see the specific itemized list of flag-and-flagger.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:03 PM on March 7, 2014
With the flag queue you can see we get both count and distinct types of flags but not an explicit count of how many of each type since that'd be a lot busier and in the odd cases where we really need to take a closer look, we can go to the actual thread or comment and see the specific itemized list of flag-and-flagger.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:03 PM on March 7, 2014
Simple solution, replace the current flagging categories with these:
obstreperous
irreducable obfuscation
defenestrate this
buggery
uncouth
fractiousness
overtly ontological
infrackingcredible
posted by sammyo at 6:35 PM on March 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
obstreperous
irreducable obfuscation
defenestrate this
buggery
uncouth
fractiousness
overtly ontological
infrackingcredible
posted by sammyo at 6:35 PM on March 7, 2014 [3 favorites]
Anything with over 100 favorites should be highlighted, like best answers.
More incentive for groups that want to "massage" behaviour to make a favourites cadre, to use mass upvoting to influence the MeFi social personality. Shift the tone. Promote trends. Etc.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:16 PM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
More incentive for groups that want to "massage" behaviour to make a favourites cadre, to use mass upvoting to influence the MeFi social personality. Shift the tone. Promote trends. Etc.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:16 PM on March 7, 2014 [1 favorite]
This off topic but doesn't merit a separate MeTa and I have no idea how to search whatever MeTa announced it but the new spacing between favorite and flag on the mobile site is A Godsend Thank You Thank You Thank You.
posted by gingerest at 11:33 PM on March 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by gingerest at 11:33 PM on March 7, 2014 [7 favorites]
This off topic but doesn't merit a separate MeTa and I have no idea how to search whatever MeTa announced it but the new spacing between favorite and flag on the mobile site is A Godsend Thank You Thank You Thank You.
I have been reading MeTa on my phone all week and have been thinking the same thing. The post is here.
posted by variella at 2:43 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have been reading MeTa on my phone all week and have been thinking the same thing. The post is here.
posted by variella at 2:43 PM on March 8, 2014 [1 favorite]
>
Sounds to me like there's sort of an elephant in the room regarding the way the flags are currently phrased. They are all categories in which the comment falls. So when one opens the flag menu, one expects that one's expected to categorize the comment. When you're categorizing, generally, that means what matters is that everything gets in its right place, and that's not the case here. That's not really what a flag is. They're not for categorizing, that's incidental. They're for attracting mod attention.
Whatever ends up done to flags, I think they need to get rewritten some way other than categories. Whole sentences would do in a pinch, eg.:
posted by LogicalDash at 5:53 PM on March 8, 2014
Yes, that is what happens; they all go to the same place, so don't worry too much about which flag to use under the current scheme. We'll almost always look at every flagged comment within a few minutes of its being flagged
...
As far as simplifying the flag options -- another function of the flag options is to do some general expectation-setting as far as what kinds of things are (in some cases) subject to mod intervention. We haven't wanted to simplify so much that we lose that.
Sounds to me like there's sort of an elephant in the room regarding the way the flags are currently phrased. They are all categories in which the comment falls. So when one opens the flag menu, one expects that one's expected to categorize the comment. When you're categorizing, generally, that means what matters is that everything gets in its right place, and that's not the case here. That's not really what a flag is. They're not for categorizing, that's incidental. They're for attracting mod attention.
Whatever ends up done to flags, I think they need to get rewritten some way other than categories. Whole sentences would do in a pinch, eg.:
- This excellent comment deserves more than just a favorite.
- This comment would be all right but I think it will mess up this thread.
- This user seems to be in a bad place for commenting, based on this one.
posted by LogicalDash at 5:53 PM on March 8, 2014
I actually kind of like SLC Mom's idea, it solves the same problem, but the contact form as-is requires us to come up with our own way of specifying what comment in particular we are contacting the mods about. I'd paste a link, other people would do a prose description of the nature of the comment and the subject of the thread it's in. Seems over-laborious both to write and, often, to read, since not everyone using the contact form has the foresight or knowledge to Copy Link Location upon the timestamp (and not the username or the flag button or whatever).
Right now, flags sort of give half-a-solution to this problem, and it's good enough since it's rare to have a case where the same user flags more than one comment and submits a new contact form for each. I don't know how things are set up server side, so a flag button that is a contact form might be difficult to set up here in particular, but I don't think it's complex per se?
posted by LogicalDash at 6:07 PM on March 8, 2014
Right now, flags sort of give half-a-solution to this problem, and it's good enough since it's rare to have a case where the same user flags more than one comment and submits a new contact form for each. I don't know how things are set up server side, so a flag button that is a contact form might be difficult to set up here in particular, but I don't think it's complex per se?
posted by LogicalDash at 6:07 PM on March 8, 2014
I think we need flags for 3 things.
1) This is good
2) This is bad
3) This would be good but gnomes started eating the code.
Other than that it doesn't really matter.
posted by theichibun at 6:13 AM on March 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
1) This is good
2) This is bad
3) This would be good but gnomes started eating the code.
Other than that it doesn't really matter.
posted by theichibun at 6:13 AM on March 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
Anything with over 100 favorites should be highlighted, like best answers.
This is such a gross idea. People already make crappy "sick burn" comments that are perfectly crafted to stroke all the erogenous zones of readers and debaters in the current thread and soak up favorites*. We don't need to be encouraging favorite mongering posts more at all. Some really ugly posts have gotten >50 favorites, and some have definitely gotten more than 100.
I realize this is stuff that wasn't like, worthy of deletion or anything. I just mean pandering stuff, or mean stuff that doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
And i especially think it would encourage reddit-like "OHH whats the best dumb joke i can make!" posts.
*the jokey pot shot at the premise of the article or something linked in the FPP/a comment ones are fine IMO, i'm talking about the stuff directed at a specific user.
posted by emptythought at 4:35 PM on March 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is such a gross idea. People already make crappy "sick burn" comments that are perfectly crafted to stroke all the erogenous zones of readers and debaters in the current thread and soak up favorites*. We don't need to be encouraging favorite mongering posts more at all. Some really ugly posts have gotten >50 favorites, and some have definitely gotten more than 100.
I realize this is stuff that wasn't like, worthy of deletion or anything. I just mean pandering stuff, or mean stuff that doesn't really add anything to the discussion.
And i especially think it would encourage reddit-like "OHH whats the best dumb joke i can make!" posts.
*the jokey pot shot at the premise of the article or something linked in the FPP/a comment ones are fine IMO, i'm talking about the stuff directed at a specific user.
posted by emptythought at 4:35 PM on March 9, 2014 [1 favorite]
I do think, based on many recent MeTas, it would be good to have a flag for "Mods, keep an eye on this." A lot of people have mentioned being reluctant to flag things that they find concerning but aren't flat-out rule-breaking, because they don't want to be tattling or they don't want to direct mod attention to something minor the same way they would to something major.
All of this.
posted by billiebee at 5:01 PM on March 9, 2014
All of this.
posted by billiebee at 5:01 PM on March 9, 2014
I would really like a "this poster has clearly not read the question" flag for AskMe. There's one answer just gone up that is clearly the result of a cursory skim and it bugs the hell out me, so I came to whine about it here rather than be snarky at them in the question thread.
posted by corvine at 7:55 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by corvine at 7:55 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Just flag it as noise. Part of the reason that we don't just have a good/bad/broken set of flags is because having the list is a shorthand way of outlining things that aren't okay here. Derailing and making racist comments are things that are not okay here and having them in the flag reasons signals this. I sympathize with people who don't know how to pick a flag for some particular situation but we've said repeatedly JUST CHOOSE ONE and we expect people to do that once they know that's how it works.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:57 AM on March 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:57 AM on March 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
I think I've figured out that, for me, a specific flag feels like I'm telling the mods "This is A Thing" (offensive/a derail etc) which can feel a bit presumptuous and tattle-y, especially when I think it might be unclear why I'm flagging it so I send a wee contact note along with it. If the flag inuded a "check this out" option, I'd feel more like I was asking "Is This A Thing?" and it wouldn't feel so confrontational. So from a user POV it's maybe more about feeling comfortable using something rather than not knowing how to use it, if that makes sense.
posted by billiebee at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by billiebee at 8:13 AM on March 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
If you'd like feedback on your choices, feel free to send us a note via the Contact Form and we are happy to give you some feedback.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:20 AM on March 11, 2014
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:20 AM on March 11, 2014
I can understand getting the wrong impression about the importance of the flag options, and even though the guidelines are in the FAQ and I frequent MetaTalk enough to have seen more in depth explanations, there is still a desire to not send a "wrong" or confusing note.
Part of it is that "Other" feels like saying "Definitely none of the above", but maybe just a "Not sure?" link to this FAQ would be enough of an reminder / reassurance. (Or in other cases, enough of a nudge towards the contact form.)
posted by lucidium at 10:15 AM on March 11, 2014
Part of it is that "Other" feels like saying "Definitely none of the above", but maybe just a "Not sure?" link to this FAQ would be enough of an reminder / reassurance. (Or in other cases, enough of a nudge towards the contact form.)
posted by lucidium at 10:15 AM on March 11, 2014
Just please try using the flag feature and/or the contact form. Our moderator decisions are driven, in large part, by the flagging and contact form actions of the community. People who don't use either are failing to give us feedback on what we should be doing. Which is totally fine if you think things are hunky dory but if you don't please use one of the feedback methods available to you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:21 AM on March 11, 2014
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:21 AM on March 11, 2014
I totally get that, and I'll be more likely to use "Other" happily from now on. I just wanted to share my personal experience with the flag options being a tiny bit discouraging, however irrational that is. I apologise if this thread was not the place.
posted by lucidium at 10:53 AM on March 11, 2014
posted by lucidium at 10:53 AM on March 11, 2014
No, sorry, you're right this is the place for that sort of feedback. I'm just trying to urge people to try to overcome their own personal discomforts--if that's all that it is--and give us feedback.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:10 AM on March 11, 2014
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:10 AM on March 11, 2014
OK, third draft, probably easier to implement:
posted by LogicalDash at 5:42 PM on March 12, 2014
- Click flag button, get drop menu like you do now (possibly rewritten for clarity)
- Choose flag, get new page: Contact form
- Contact form is prefilled with
- the text of the flag you picked in the subject line (or just at the top of the message if that's easier)
- a link to the comment you flagged in the text
posted by LogicalDash at 5:42 PM on March 12, 2014
I would really appreciate the prefilled link thing. Especially on the mobile site. I know you guys can magically see where I clicked the contact form from, but not everyone knows that and I always wonder what happens if I have multiple tabs open or whatnot.
Of course, LD's proposal is inconvenient for people who want to flag without contact, and it's likely to increase the contact use rate, which might not be optimal. Maybe offer a contact form link (with autofill) from the flag menu?
(I know that the mobile site isn't the be-all and end-all and I seem to recall Cortex saying that the mobile interfaces isn't the primary way the site is meant to be used, but between smart phones and tablets, I think you might be losing the battle if you're trying to keep people accessing mainly via desktop.)
posted by gingerest at 8:22 PM on March 12, 2014
Of course, LD's proposal is inconvenient for people who want to flag without contact, and it's likely to increase the contact use rate, which might not be optimal. Maybe offer a contact form link (with autofill) from the flag menu?
(I know that the mobile site isn't the be-all and end-all and I seem to recall Cortex saying that the mobile interfaces isn't the primary way the site is meant to be used, but between smart phones and tablets, I think you might be losing the battle if you're trying to keep people accessing mainly via desktop.)
posted by gingerest at 8:22 PM on March 12, 2014
Maybe instead of so freaking much flagging, people could pull the stick from their ass and just relax. Instead of trying to force everyone to march lockstep with you, let it go. Step away from the screen. Go love your family and quit giving such a shit about yahoos on the internets.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:56 PM on March 12, 2014
posted by five fresh fish at 9:56 PM on March 12, 2014
five fresh fish, don't come in and insult people for using Metatalk as it's meant to be used. Step away from the screen, etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 10:36 PM on March 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 10:36 PM on March 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Maybe instead of so freaking much flagging, people could pull the stick from their ass and just relax
On the UK version of MetaFilter we have a flag that just says "How Rude!" and the mods just email back "I know!" and then we all go and make a cup of tea.
posted by billiebee at 3:50 AM on March 13, 2014 [27 favorites]
On the UK version of MetaFilter we have a flag that just says "How Rude!" and the mods just email back "I know!" and then we all go and make a cup of tea.
posted by billiebee at 3:50 AM on March 13, 2014 [27 favorites]
I'VE GOT IT
You know how right now, when you flag something there's text wot says "flagged" that appears in place of the flag button?
Turn that into a link, which takes you to the contact form, and it is prefilled with a link to the comment and the name of the flag. Maybe change the text a bit, like "flagged -- contact?" or something.
SO USEFUL
posted by LogicalDash at 4:28 AM on March 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
You know how right now, when you flag something there's text wot says "flagged" that appears in place of the flag button?
Turn that into a link, which takes you to the contact form, and it is prefilled with a link to the comment and the name of the flag. Maybe change the text a bit, like "flagged -- contact?" or something.
SO USEFUL
posted by LogicalDash at 4:28 AM on March 16, 2014 [2 favorites]
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posted by klangklangston at 5:30 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]