Feel free to reply in an acerbically humorous fashion. Or not. Up to you. July 16, 2011 11:05 PM Subscribe
Pony request: Make snarks optional.
From time to time in AskMe I think of a funny snarky answer, but I don't post it because it's Not Ok. Other times in the Blue I want to actually have a discussion about a topic but there is nothing but assholery.
What if there was a way to filter snarky comments? They could be off by default in AskMe, and on in the Blue and MeTa. Comments could be self-tagged as snarky and also flagged as such. Then they could be hidden via a toggle in Preferences and maybe a "hide snarks" option on the bottom of snarky posts. Also OPs could turn them on or off as well.
From time to time in AskMe I think of a funny snarky answer, but I don't post it because it's Not Ok. Other times in the Blue I want to actually have a discussion about a topic but there is nothing but assholery.
What if there was a way to filter snarky comments? They could be off by default in AskMe, and on in the Blue and MeTa. Comments could be self-tagged as snarky and also flagged as such. Then they could be hidden via a toggle in Preferences and maybe a "hide snarks" option on the bottom of snarky posts. Also OPs could turn them on or off as well.
[You have chosen to ignore this snarky comment.]
posted by 1000monkeys at 11:15 PM on July 16, 2011
posted by 1000monkeys at 11:15 PM on July 16, 2011
I'm a total animal lover and would normally never willingly hurt another living being, so why do I find myself standing over this pony and repeatedly stabbing it with a meat fork?
posted by mudpuppie at 11:17 PM on July 16, 2011 [22 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 11:17 PM on July 16, 2011 [22 favorites]
Is this pony relevant to you? Yes [] No []
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 11:17 PM on July 16, 2011
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 11:17 PM on July 16, 2011
Then they could be hidden via a toggle...
good lord, what if snark could be toggled?
the mind would be flummoxed and boggled!
turned off and on,
like a light, or a blender!
then snark might even
be returned to sender!
maybe the snark could be bundled and sold!
traded like futures, or junk bonds or gold!
snark could be seen or ignored or digested!
snark could be beaten or even lab tested!
life could be hell, or a stroll in the park,
depending on just what we do with this snark.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:20 PM on July 16, 2011 [54 favorites]
good lord, what if snark could be toggled?
the mind would be flummoxed and boggled!
turned off and on,
like a light, or a blender!
then snark might even
be returned to sender!
maybe the snark could be bundled and sold!
traded like futures, or junk bonds or gold!
snark could be seen or ignored or digested!
snark could be beaten or even lab tested!
life could be hell, or a stroll in the park,
depending on just what we do with this snark.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:20 PM on July 16, 2011 [54 favorites]
Just use a kill file.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:21 PM on July 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:21 PM on July 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
/\_/|
,;;; `'._
)`` . \\\.
/. (o)' `\\\.
,'/ , ) \\\\
(`'o _..-.' ,. `\\\.
`--' \ `\\\._
\ ., ``''``-._________....-'`````-.
\ . . ., ,. `.._
\ , . , ., . ,., . \.\.
) , .,SERIOUS ., . ,., .\\\
: . COMMENT., .,. ::||:
| , , . , ,. '||||
: . ., , `. ,. ; |:||
\ , ,' ____ . -_ `. . / ||:|
:` / .' ````-----'' : ,\ / :|||
| ./ / \ :\ ,( ||:|
|, : : :.| : : ||||
| ;.| | | : : |:||
:':\ | |,; \.( ||/|
| ;: | : / : / '\||
|; :| )/ |: \|;
|| || ;/ || `
;: ;; /: ;|
/.' /.' /.' /.'
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 11:23 PM on July 16, 2011 [57 favorites] Pony request: No pony requests in the middle of the night (to mods) on weekends.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:38 PM on July 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 11:38 PM on July 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
For real? That's like asking to take the fil[ling] ou of Metafilter. At least half this place is snark. And counter snark, complaining about snark, and flaming out because of snark. Without snark the walls would tumble in.
posted by bearwife at 11:40 PM on July 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by bearwife at 11:40 PM on July 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
You know who else wanted you to tag yourself?
posted by secret about box at 11:45 PM on July 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by secret about box at 11:45 PM on July 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
I wholeheartedly support this proposal - between the excellent moderation and the community occasionally behaving themselves, we don't have enough opportunities for a good clusterfuck. Also, the mods could use some more work, and everybody likes invisible comment misunderstanding drama.
posted by Dr Dracator at 11:50 PM on July 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Dr Dracator at 11:50 PM on July 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
The mods have repeatedly said that thread structure is sacrosanct, and that anything that removes or alters that flow -- such as sorting by favorites or hiding comments by certain users (killfile) -- is completely out of the question. There are third party solutions such as bookmarklets and greasemonkey scripts, but that's out of the mods' power to control. Moreover, this idea relies on people taking an action to mark their comment as snark, which by itself would completely doom it to the wastepile of ideas because people cannot be trusted to do that reliably. What seems like snark to you could just as easily be a serious point to the comment's author. And what happens if someone makes a snarky comment and another person replies with a serious followup? Is that followup also to be marked snark or not? If it's a serious question, it's not snark, but it probably quotes part or all of the snarky comment, which means you either have no hope of understanding it without the context, or you get the full effect of the snark anyway even though you wanted to hide it. This idea is impossibly bad.
posted by Rhomboid at 12:06 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 12:06 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
HOW in the hell do people do these things!? I"m serious here - 11 comments into a random MeTa, we have Flapjax at Midnite setting the whole thing to (extremely clever) song, and we have a literal fucking pony rendered in backslashes and colons. HOW??
I can't even make the small text that so many of you seem to like these days.
I love Metafilter. I love it so much that I would ride a backslash pony into the West, as long as the West was projected onto a blue screen.
Good night, people. And ponies.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 12:10 AM on July 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
I can't even make the small text that so many of you seem to like these days.
I love Metafilter. I love it so much that I would ride a backslash pony into the West, as long as the West was projected onto a blue screen.
Good night, people. And ponies.
posted by deep thought sunstar at 12:10 AM on July 17, 2011 [13 favorites]
and we have a literal fucking pony rendered in backslashes and colons.
A male pony at that
posted by edgeways at 12:14 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
A male pony at that
posted by edgeways at 12:14 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
HOW in the hell do people do these things!?
Templates, boredom, and pseudo-humans genetically tweaked and augmented with neural implants in order to produce things for the Internet that natural humans are incapable of doing at any reasonable speed. If you meet those people in the flesh, they're just actors paid by the cabal which does not exist.
posted by Saydur at 12:17 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Templates, boredom, and pseudo-humans genetically tweaked and augmented with neural implants in order to produce things for the Internet that natural humans are incapable of doing at any reasonable speed. If you meet those people in the flesh, they're just actors paid by the cabal which does not exist.
posted by Saydur at 12:17 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Personally, I've always thought that snark was just a community sanctioned way of being an asshole (warranted or unwarranted) and that MeFi as a whole would benefit from it being stopped site-wide.
Taking off favorite counts would be a potential solution, as both Reddit and the old form of Slashdot show how terrible a site can get with a positive feedback system (do what everyone else does, see your numbers go up). But that was tried a while back and obviously wasn't kept, so we're stuck with people rushing into threads when they're posted to make a fast, asshole-y comment and hopefully grab a bunch of favorites.
(Aside: That's also a major failing of a non-threaded comment system - the first comments will always be the ones to set the subject and tone of the discussion to follow, even if it's completely off from what it would be if it actually followed the materials in the post. I can't begin to count the number of FPPs I've seen where it's painfully obvious that the first commentors just started talking about what they imagine the discussion to be about.)
posted by flatluigi at 12:27 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Taking off favorite counts would be a potential solution, as both Reddit and the old form of Slashdot show how terrible a site can get with a positive feedback system (do what everyone else does, see your numbers go up). But that was tried a while back and obviously wasn't kept, so we're stuck with people rushing into threads when they're posted to make a fast, asshole-y comment and hopefully grab a bunch of favorites.
(Aside: That's also a major failing of a non-threaded comment system - the first comments will always be the ones to set the subject and tone of the discussion to follow, even if it's completely off from what it would be if it actually followed the materials in the post. I can't begin to count the number of FPPs I've seen where it's painfully obvious that the first commentors just started talking about what they imagine the discussion to be about.)
posted by flatluigi at 12:27 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
In all seriousness, this is a function best handled by your built-in software. Just ignore the snarky comments and soon you won't see them at all.
posted by Kevin Street at 12:31 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Kevin Street at 12:31 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
At least half this place is snark.
At least half? Really? Though I've never surveyed it scientifically, my gut feeling is that this is incorrect. I'd say it's much closer to 1/3rd, maybe less.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:35 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
At least half? Really? Though I've never surveyed it scientifically, my gut feeling is that this is incorrect. I'd say it's much closer to 1/3rd, maybe less.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 12:35 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
A male pony at that
Admit it, dear reader - you too scrolled back to check.
posted by DreamerFi at 12:40 AM on July 17, 2011 [66 favorites]
Admit it, dear reader - you too scrolled back to check.
posted by DreamerFi at 12:40 AM on July 17, 2011 [66 favorites]
we have a literal fucking pony rendered in backslashes and colons. HOW??
I can't work out if that's a joke or if you've really never seen ASCII art before. If the latter a) HOW?? and b) run to Google, you're in for a treat!
posted by jack_mo at 12:50 AM on July 17, 2011
I can't work out if that's a joke or if you've really never seen ASCII art before. If the latter a) HOW?? and b) run to Google, you're in for a treat!
posted by jack_mo at 12:50 AM on July 17, 2011
backslashes and colons go in, pony comes out. you can't explain that
posted by cmonkey at 12:53 AM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 12:53 AM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
fucking pony rendered in...colons
Am I a bad person for immediately thinking of Mr. Hands when I read this?
posted by dersins at 1:01 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Am I a bad person for immediately thinking of Mr. Hands when I read this?
posted by dersins at 1:01 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
p.s. DO NOT GOOGLE MR. HANDS
posted by dersins at 1:02 AM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by dersins at 1:02 AM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
Heed dersins, please, for your own sake. It is something you cannot unsee.
*pours more eye bleach into eyes*
posted by deborah at 1:07 AM on July 17, 2011
*pours more eye bleach into eyes*
posted by deborah at 1:07 AM on July 17, 2011
[You have chosen not to view this person's comments. That's too bad. They are sometimes quite humorous. And sometimes quite banal. Which kind is this? Now you will never know. Too bad for you. Loser.]
posted by Splunge at 1:18 AM on July 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Splunge at 1:18 AM on July 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
I can't even make the small text that so many of you seem to like these days.
Let me help you.
posted by vidur at 1:26 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Let me help you.
posted by vidur at 1:26 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bestiality had been legal in Washington state for 117 years, until the passing of the bill.
That is all.
posted by Splunge at 1:28 AM on July 17, 2011
That is all.
posted by Splunge at 1:28 AM on July 17, 2011
My favorite part of that wikipedia page is the "See also" section at the end. So... wonderfully understated:
posted by dersins at 1:42 AM on July 17, 2011
See also:Indeed.
List of horse accidents
List of unusual deaths
posted by dersins at 1:42 AM on July 17, 2011
Today is the day for ponies which have a 0% of happening.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 AM on July 17, 2011
posted by Justinian at 1:55 AM on July 17, 2011
Feel free to reply in an acerbically humorous fashion.
Are youthirteen twelve?
posted by adamvasco at 3:38 AM on July 17, 2011
Are you
posted by adamvasco at 3:38 AM on July 17, 2011
A Guide To Despook Your Horse.
I read this as Despoke and was left wondering "clavdivs has a horse with wheels?"
posted by arcticseal at 3:52 AM on July 17, 2011
I read this as Despoke and was left wondering "clavdivs has a horse with wheels?"
posted by arcticseal at 3:52 AM on July 17, 2011
All this and still no definition of snark.
posted by jenkinsEar at 4:38 AM on July 17, 2011 [7 favorites]
They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care;The snark was a Boojum, you see.
They pursued it with forks and hope;
They threatened its life with a railway-share;
They charmed it with smiles and soap.
posted by jenkinsEar at 4:38 AM on July 17, 2011 [7 favorites]
All this and still no definition of snark. --- I'd link to Wikipedia, but that other thread told me not to.
posted by crunchland at 5:19 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 5:19 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
It's Metafilter, not SnarkFilter. Though a shadow version of MeFi, showing snark only ... hmmmm, the name is available. pondering.
posted by theora55 at 5:54 AM on July 17, 2011
posted by theora55 at 5:54 AM on July 17, 2011
Perhaps you could put your snark in ROT13 until we have a spoiler tag.
posted by Grangousier at 6:06 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 6:06 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
When you get the urge, it's a funny snarky answer. When others do it, it's assholery.
MetaFilter: When you get the urge, it's a funny snarky answer. When others do it, it's assholery.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:20 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: When you get the urge, it's a funny snarky answer. When others do it, it's assholery.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:20 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'll link to Wikipedia.
There are many kinds of snarks. This page has a picture of a flower snark and an explanation of the snark theorem. There are also double star snarks, sea snarks, an intercontinental snark and a snark automated reasoning kit.
And, of course, and old poem about hunting snarks.
posted by nangar at 6:23 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
There are many kinds of snarks. This page has a picture of a flower snark and an explanation of the snark theorem. There are also double star snarks, sea snarks, an intercontinental snark and a snark automated reasoning kit.
And, of course, and old poem about hunting snarks.
posted by nangar at 6:23 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
(I should have framed this post as a suggestion rather than a request.) Thanks for the several thoughtful replies and the amazing poem. I thought it was an interesting idea that could in theory help with self-policing, make mods' jobs easier, and help people get more of what they want out of the site. Obviously there are complications--it's adding a layer of complexity.
posted by ropeladder at 6:34 AM on July 17, 2011
posted by ropeladder at 6:34 AM on July 17, 2011
Oops! Missed one. Here's an endangered Scottish snark.
posted by nangar at 6:36 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by nangar at 6:36 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Does anyone else come here just for the snark? If we always have to be Terribly Serious while answering I think I'll go find somewhere folks have a sense of humor. Seriously.
posted by doctor_negative at 6:37 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 6:37 AM on July 17, 2011 [4 favorites]
Honestly, I think the way it's done now works pretty well.
I'm not just saying that because this idea is insane, either.
posted by box at 6:41 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm not just saying that because this idea is insane, either.
posted by box at 6:41 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is a very silly idea. You can't be serious.
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:53 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by EatTheWeek at 6:53 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I thought it was an interesting idea that could in theory help with self-policing, make mods' jobs easier, and help people get more of what they want out of the site
It is an interesting idea, but one that would basically involve turning this site into not-MeFi and would absolutely not work with the level of staffing we have here, a level that is unlikely to change dramatically unless HuffPo/AOL buys us and you wouldn't want to hang out here anymore anyhow.
Additionally, the whole idea that people would self-tag stuff just so other people could not-see it is just a non-starter. People would not only not do this, they would tamper with and screw around with it, I'm sure to hilarious ends, but the result would be a new layer of complexity that did nothing whatsoever to solve the original stated problem.
I know for people for whom MeFi is like 75% great and 25% suck it can be really frustrating to feel that if only we had a handle on this one out-of-control issue [whether it's snarking, or sexism, or people asking for legal advice, or drunk-posting] everything would just be superterrific and we'd want to spend even more time here than we already do. You can consider the fractional amount of lousiness this place maintains to be the part of it that keeps you involved with your outside interests.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:08 AM on July 17, 2011 [23 favorites]
It is an interesting idea, but one that would basically involve turning this site into not-MeFi and would absolutely not work with the level of staffing we have here, a level that is unlikely to change dramatically unless HuffPo/AOL buys us and you wouldn't want to hang out here anymore anyhow.
Additionally, the whole idea that people would self-tag stuff just so other people could not-see it is just a non-starter. People would not only not do this, they would tamper with and screw around with it, I'm sure to hilarious ends, but the result would be a new layer of complexity that did nothing whatsoever to solve the original stated problem.
I know for people for whom MeFi is like 75% great and 25% suck it can be really frustrating to feel that if only we had a handle on this one out-of-control issue [whether it's snarking, or sexism, or people asking for legal advice, or drunk-posting] everything would just be superterrific and we'd want to spend even more time here than we already do. You can consider the fractional amount of lousiness this place maintains to be the part of it that keeps you involved with your outside interests.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:08 AM on July 17, 2011 [23 favorites]
Oooh, ooh. I have a pony request:
Henceforth you will be required to take, and pass with a minimum grade of 75, a 100 question exam covering all previous pony requests before being allowed to post any new pony requests.
Thank you.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 7:17 AM on July 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
Henceforth you will be required to take, and pass with a minimum grade of 75, a 100 question exam covering all previous pony requests before being allowed to post any new pony requests.
Thank you.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 7:17 AM on July 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
I guess it would get complicated as soon as people who are really into it start self-tagging snarky comments as "serious" and vice versa, whereupon others chime in with pseudo-serious p/a answers or sarcasm or something and self-tag it as "Drunk post" our "lousiness" and so on.
Fun aside: "Other times in the Blue I want to actually have a discussion about a topic but there is nothing but assholery." Nope. It strikes me time and again how much of the quality of somewhat seriously moderated internet discussions actually depends on the individual's input. The one thing that really doesn't work in this context is starting the "everyone else is so mean" type of thing. Everyone has the choice to not be mean and ignore others that try to be mean. You need no pony for that but a mirror.
posted by Namlit at 7:19 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Fun aside: "Other times in the Blue I want to actually have a discussion about a topic but there is nothing but assholery." Nope. It strikes me time and again how much of the quality of somewhat seriously moderated internet discussions actually depends on the individual's input. The one thing that really doesn't work in this context is starting the "everyone else is so mean" type of thing. Everyone has the choice to not be mean and ignore others that try to be mean. You need no pony for that but a mirror.
posted by Namlit at 7:19 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was a lor snarkier when I got here. Now I try to be civil and earnest in my participation, except when I lose control.
Oddly, I get accused of being an asshole a lot more often now. Perhaps it's because, when you're being snarky, people can just say, oh, it's humor. But when you genuinely disagree with somebody, make your case, and hold people to their own statements and answers, and demand they respond to your actual argument, and not the argument they wish you had made, which would be easier to refute than the one you actually made, you are sort of being an asshole.
Oh maybe it's that my moments of snarkiness you stand out more now.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:49 AM on July 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Oddly, I get accused of being an asshole a lot more often now. Perhaps it's because, when you're being snarky, people can just say, oh, it's humor. But when you genuinely disagree with somebody, make your case, and hold people to their own statements and answers, and demand they respond to your actual argument, and not the argument they wish you had made, which would be easier to refute than the one you actually made, you are sort of being an asshole.
Oh maybe it's that my moments of snarkiness you stand out more now.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:49 AM on July 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Thanks Jessamyn, those are good reasons it's a bad idea. One thing I want to point out though is that the default settings I suggested would theoretically change nothing on the main page, only allowing for some [admittedly contentious] peer censorship on AskMe. Anyway, you mods obviously have a much better idea of what kind of tomfoolery the hive is capable of and what kind of workload something like this would be, so I'll take your word for it.
would absolutely not work with the level of staffing we have here
...but but but... the intern!
Namlit: I should have said "read a discussion about a topic" instead of "have a discussion about a topic". I lurk the vast majority of the time and I hope you'll find the number of times I've degraded the quality of a discussion is quite low. (this post notwithstanding!)
DiscourseMaker: I read the FAQ, at least. Heh.
posted by ropeladder at 7:49 AM on July 17, 2011
would absolutely not work with the level of staffing we have here
...but but but... the intern!
Namlit: I should have said "read a discussion about a topic" instead of "have a discussion about a topic". I lurk the vast majority of the time and I hope you'll find the number of times I've degraded the quality of a discussion is quite low. (this post notwithstanding!)
DiscourseMaker: I read the FAQ, at least. Heh.
posted by ropeladder at 7:49 AM on July 17, 2011
You stand out now? Lor?
New laptop, I eagerly await your arrival. I love my iPad, but this is one of the things it is really bad at.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:51 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
New laptop, I eagerly await your arrival. I love my iPad, but this is one of the things it is really bad at.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:51 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
One thing I want to point out though is that the default settings I suggested would theoretically change nothing on the main page, only allowing for some [admittedly contentious] peer censorship on AskMe.
I know this is just a friendly "but...!" comment, but feel that I have to explain that even if the site looks exactly the same, if it's working differently on the back end and we change our expectations about how you are supposed to act here [suddenly snarking is okay on AskMe? That changes everything!] and how we will moderate that, it's a huge culture shift which is very much non-trivial in a site where 40,000 people may participate. "admittedly contentious" is putting it mildly, I'd suggest "The war of all against all" because what we'll be seeing is
- people snarking more
- some people self-tagging their snark
- people saying that some snark shouldn't be allowed anyhow, even if tagged
- people hassling other people into tagging their snark [because this tagging would be, at some level, user facing because you'd know what got hidden and what didn't get hidden]
- people requesting a bright line definition of snark
- people using the snarking backchannel in AskMe to carry on otherwise forbidden discussions there
- too-numerous-to-mention MeTas about the feature, about how it's ruined everything, about how so-and-so isn't using it correctly, and about how everyone here is an asshole
- the snarking problem still remains because of lack of use of the feature we built to try to help ameliorate it
Again, I get why the idea appeals and it's a neat fancy way of approaching the problem, but we're at the point where new stuff that requires all members voluntarily start using a new feature to solve a problem that isn't even considered by everyone to be a problem [and starts new problems like allowing people to snark in AskMe? Over my dead body, seriously] is a non-starter.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:58 AM on July 17, 2011 [7 favorites]
I know this is just a friendly "but...!" comment, but feel that I have to explain that even if the site looks exactly the same, if it's working differently on the back end and we change our expectations about how you are supposed to act here [suddenly snarking is okay on AskMe? That changes everything!] and how we will moderate that, it's a huge culture shift which is very much non-trivial in a site where 40,000 people may participate. "admittedly contentious" is putting it mildly, I'd suggest "The war of all against all" because what we'll be seeing is
- people snarking more
- some people self-tagging their snark
- people saying that some snark shouldn't be allowed anyhow, even if tagged
- people hassling other people into tagging their snark [because this tagging would be, at some level, user facing because you'd know what got hidden and what didn't get hidden]
- people requesting a bright line definition of snark
- people using the snarking backchannel in AskMe to carry on otherwise forbidden discussions there
- too-numerous-to-mention MeTas about the feature, about how it's ruined everything, about how so-and-so isn't using it correctly, and about how everyone here is an asshole
- the snarking problem still remains because of lack of use of the feature we built to try to help ameliorate it
Again, I get why the idea appeals and it's a neat fancy way of approaching the problem, but we're at the point where new stuff that requires all members voluntarily start using a new feature to solve a problem that isn't even considered by everyone to be a problem [and starts new problems like allowing people to snark in AskMe? Over my dead body, seriously] is a non-starter.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:58 AM on July 17, 2011 [7 favorites]
I hope you'll find the number of times I've degraded the quality of a discussion is quite low.
Ha ha, my friend, that just means you're still new here! Now -- go run along and call someone in Askme an asshole. It's fun and satisfying!
posted by Think_Long at 7:59 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ha ha, my friend, that just means you're still new here! Now -- go run along and call someone in Askme an asshole. It's fun and satisfying!
posted by Think_Long at 7:59 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Taking off favorite counts would be a potential solution
If they are truly bookmarks there is no reason anyone besides individual community members should need to see them. As is, they become a game which many users feel compelled to win.
posted by terrapin at 8:03 AM on July 17, 2011
If they are truly bookmarks there is no reason anyone besides individual community members should need to see them. As is, they become a game which many users feel compelled to win.
posted by terrapin at 8:03 AM on July 17, 2011
yes let's have this argument again
posted by Think_Long at 8:11 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Think_Long at 8:11 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
The real question is, is "snark" in the OED?
jessamyn, can you flip to that page?
posted by desjardins at 8:13 AM on July 17, 2011
jessamyn, can you flip to that page?
posted by desjardins at 8:13 AM on July 17, 2011
jessamyn: Communities are fascinating and it's crazy how... cumbersome...?? they can be. Thanks for indulging me with the explanation.
posted by ropeladder at 8:16 AM on July 17, 2011
posted by ropeladder at 8:16 AM on July 17, 2011
jessamyn, can you flip to that page?
I'll get right on that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:29 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'll get right on that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:29 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
The closest thing to modern "snark" is a couple of century-old cites for the verb form:
To find fault (with), to nag.posted by cortex (staff) at 8:33 AM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
1882 J. Longmuir & D. Donaldson Jamieson's Etymol. Dict. Sc. Lang. (rev. ed.) IV. 314/2 To Snark,‥to fret, grumble, or find fault with one.
1904 E. Nesbit Phoenix & Carpet x. 185 He remembered how Anthea had refrained from snarking him about tearing the carpet.
>You know who else wanted you to tag yourself?
Chotchkie's?
posted by J. Wilson at 8:40 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Chotchkie's?
posted by J. Wilson at 8:40 AM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I lurk the vast majority of the time and I hope you'll find the number of times I've degraded the quality of a discussion is quite low
Ah, just my point! Lurking sure doesn't degrade the quality of a discussion, true, but it doesn't help against (others') snark. So you have two options, is what I meant: stay away altogether from a thread, or try to contribute in a better-than-what-you-perceive-as-average spirit and see if it helps.
posted by Namlit at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2011
Ah, just my point! Lurking sure doesn't degrade the quality of a discussion, true, but it doesn't help against (others') snark. So you have two options, is what I meant: stay away altogether from a thread, or try to contribute in a better-than-what-you-perceive-as-average spirit and see if it helps.
posted by Namlit at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2011
Taking off favorite counts would be a potential solution
You can already do that individually. I don't have favorite counts turned on and it enhances my reading of the site a zillion fold, except for in MeTa when someone chimes in with "such and such objectionable comment got FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND MILLION FAVORITES! proving that everything is wrong with the universe" and then I scratch my head and say "Huh."
posted by sonika at 9:55 AM on July 17, 2011
You can already do that individually. I don't have favorite counts turned on and it enhances my reading of the site a zillion fold, except for in MeTa when someone chimes in with "such and such objectionable comment got FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND MILLION FAVORITES! proving that everything is wrong with the universe" and then I scratch my head and say "Huh."
posted by sonika at 9:55 AM on July 17, 2011
I wonder if the CRUSHED ASIANS/CRUSTACEANS pun counted as snark in that thread about the crab in the box.
Because for me, I still think of the moment I read that and I smile.
posted by angrycat at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2011
Because for me, I still think of the moment I read that and I smile.
posted by angrycat at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2011
dersins didn't mark his comment as snark, so I saw it! Can a mod fix that?
posted by cjorgensen at 10:21 AM on July 17, 2011
posted by cjorgensen at 10:21 AM on July 17, 2011
Henceforth you will be required to take, and pass with a minimum grade of 75, a 100 question exam covering all previous pony requests before being allowed to post any new pony requests.
I think this is a superfantastic idea. However, in these days of grade inflation and the ease of search a 75 is a failing grade. So that passing grade should be at least a 90.
posted by winna at 10:50 AM on July 17, 2011
I think this is a superfantastic idea. However, in these days of grade inflation and the ease of search a 75 is a failing grade. So that passing grade should be at least a 90.
posted by winna at 10:50 AM on July 17, 2011
Comments could be self-tagged as snarky
I think I've spotted a flaw in your suggestion.
What I mean is -- your plan puts the onus on the commenter to self-flag -- and with all due respect, what makes you certain that the people who WOULD be snarking the most would be considerate enough to do that in the first place?...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on July 17, 2011
I think I've spotted a flaw in your suggestion.
What I mean is -- your plan puts the onus on the commenter to self-flag -- and with all due respect, what makes you certain that the people who WOULD be snarking the most would be considerate enough to do that in the first place?...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on July 17, 2011
Cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Snark's in the water. Our snark.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:04 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:04 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think I've spotted a flaw in your suggestion.
What I mean is -- your plan puts the onus on the commenter to self-flag -- and with all due respect, what makes you certain that the people who WOULD be snarking the most would be considerate enough to do that in the first place?..
I share witty and intelligent observations about life, music, politics, love, lunar modules and wombats. Other people snark.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:10 PM on July 17, 2011
What I mean is -- your plan puts the onus on the commenter to self-flag -- and with all due respect, what makes you certain that the people who WOULD be snarking the most would be considerate enough to do that in the first place?..
I share witty and intelligent observations about life, music, politics, love, lunar modules and wombats. Other people snark.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:10 PM on July 17, 2011
I remember The Snarks. They lived under the sea, and they had those funny heads with a tube on top.
posted by katillathehun at 12:27 PM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by katillathehun at 12:27 PM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
For Odin's Sake, man, at least have the decency to pretend you have something better to do on a Saturday night...
posted by Aquaman at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2011
posted by Aquaman at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2011
A male pony at that
That's a leg.
I wonder if the CRUSHED ASIANS/CRUSTACEANS pun counted as snark in that thread about the crab in the box. Because for me, I still think of the moment I read that and I smile.
angrycat, that was a fantastic thread.
posted by maryr at 12:50 PM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's a leg.
I wonder if the CRUSHED ASIANS/CRUSTACEANS pun counted as snark in that thread about the crab in the box. Because for me, I still think of the moment I read that and I smile.
angrycat, that was a fantastic thread.
posted by maryr at 12:50 PM on July 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
The only way I recognized teh thread and its participants while wandering lost through this google plus thingie was by teh snarks. It helped me find civilization, just like breadcrumbs helped Hansel and Gretel.
Yes, virginia, we just shot your pony dead.
posted by infini at 12:54 PM on July 17, 2011
Yes, virginia, we just shot your pony dead.
posted by infini at 12:54 PM on July 17, 2011
Other times in the Blue I want to actually have a discussion about a topic but there is nothing but assholery.
It's not Metafilter per se. It's people.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:42 PM on July 17, 2011
It's not Metafilter per se. It's people.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 1:42 PM on July 17, 2011
You know, I could really go for a nice hot bowl of Soylent Blue right about now....
posted by zarq at 1:48 PM on July 17, 2011
posted by zarq at 1:48 PM on July 17, 2011
For real? That's like asking to take the fil[ling] ou of Metafilter. At least half this place is snark. And counter snark, complaining about snark, and flaming out because of snark. Without snark the walls would tumble in.
It is the worst part of Metafilter, because it validates the worst impulses of the people use the site.
The walls would not tumble in if it were to be dialed down -- quite the contrary: Metafilter would be a much better site for it. Further, suggestions that it is somehow the 'essence' of Metafilter hurt the community by creating an expectation that endless kneejerk snark is somehow not only condoned but expected. Please don't do that.
The idea starting this thread is a terrible one, though, so.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:04 PM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
It is the worst part of Metafilter, because it validates the worst impulses of the people use the site.
The walls would not tumble in if it were to be dialed down -- quite the contrary: Metafilter would be a much better site for it. Further, suggestions that it is somehow the 'essence' of Metafilter hurt the community by creating an expectation that endless kneejerk snark is somehow not only condoned but expected. Please don't do that.
The idea starting this thread is a terrible one, though, so.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:04 PM on July 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
You know, I could really go for a nice hot bowl of Soylent Blue right about now....
You've gotta tell them! Soylent Blue is assholes!
posted by secret about box at 2:24 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
You've gotta tell them! Soylent Blue is assholes!
posted by secret about box at 2:24 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
My profile, as of a couple days ago, includes: "oh, and if I said something that could either be interpreted as offensive or sarcastic, it's much more likely that I meant it sarcastically." This probably applies to a lot of other people as well.
Besides, wouldn't it be snarky to tag comments that are not snarky at all as snark?
posted by madcaptenor at 3:45 PM on July 17, 2011
Besides, wouldn't it be snarky to tag comments that are not snarky at all as snark?
posted by madcaptenor at 3:45 PM on July 17, 2011
Cage goes in the water, you go in the water. Snark's in the water. Our snark.
We're going to need a bigger boat.
posted by misha at 5:42 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
We're going to need a bigger boat.
posted by misha at 5:42 PM on July 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
There's a bigger gloat, will that do?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:54 PM on July 17, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:54 PM on July 17, 2011
I tried to bring more water but this damn bucket is full of holes.
posted by Sailormom at 8:32 PM on July 17, 2011
posted by Sailormom at 8:32 PM on July 17, 2011
Or we could have an Ignore list.
But seriously, this is an awesome idea. An awesome, impractical, unworkable idea. But I think it would make the site friendlier.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:32 PM on July 17, 2011
But seriously, this is an awesome idea. An awesome, impractical, unworkable idea. But I think it would make the site friendlier.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:32 PM on July 17, 2011
The day this happens will be the day Metafilter finally jumps the snark
posted by iotic at 4:32 AM on July 18, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by iotic at 4:32 AM on July 18, 2011 [3 favorites]
man this is like coming late to a teenage house party and everyone already paired up/passed out/killed by a slasher
posted by The Whelk at 6:09 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 6:09 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a goat tied up in the backyard.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:25 AM on July 18, 2011
Yes, but that would hurt the goat's feelings.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on July 18, 2011
mmmm goat
The name Dopiaza literally means onions twice! This recipe calls for onions, to be used in large quantities and in two batches. It is really easy to cook but tastes like you spent hours, lovingly preparing it! What more can you ask for? Serve Gosht Dopiaza with hot Chapatis and a green salad.
Ingredients:
* 1 kg goat meat (with bones)/ beef chunks/ lamb chunks
* 3 large onions choppped fine
* 3 tsps coriander seeds
* 2 tsps cumin seeds
* 2 tsps garam masala
* 1/2 tsp turmeric powder
* 2 tbsps garlic paste
* 2 tbsps ginger paste
* Salt to taste
* 3 tbsps vegetable/ canola/ sunflower cooking oil
Preparation:
* Heat a griddle or small, flat pan on a medium flame and gently roast the coriander and cumin seeds till aromatic. Remove from fire and grind into a corase powder in a clean, dry coffee grinder. Keep aside for later.
* Separate the chopped onions into 2 portions - roughly 2/3 and 1/3 of the whole.
* Heat the oil in a large pan on a medium flame and add the first lot of onions - the 2/3 portion. Fry till golden.
* Add the meat and fry till browned.
* Add all the powdered spices and fry for 2-3 minutes. Add salt to taste.
* Add the remaining 1/3 portion of chopped onion, ginger and garlic pastes and mix well.
* Add 1 1/2 cups of water, stir and bring to a boil.
* Reduce flame to a simmer and cook till the meat is tender. This dish, when cooked, requires that the gravy only be enough to coat the meat thickly. If it is not so, cook to reduce the gravy to required consistency.
* Garnish with corainder and serve with hot Chapatis and a green salad.
posted by infini at 7:53 AM on July 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
The name Dopiaza literally means onions twice! This recipe calls for onions, to be used in large quantities and in two batches. It is really easy to cook but tastes like you spent hours, lovingly preparing it! What more can you ask for? Serve Gosht Dopiaza with hot Chapatis and a green salad.
Ingredients:
* 1 kg goat meat (with bones)/ beef chunks/ lamb chunks
* 3 large onions choppped fine
* 3 tsps coriander seeds
* 2 tsps cumin seeds
* 2 tsps garam masala
* 1/2 tsp turmeric powder
* 2 tbsps garlic paste
* 2 tbsps ginger paste
* Salt to taste
* 3 tbsps vegetable/ canola/ sunflower cooking oil
Preparation:
* Heat a griddle or small, flat pan on a medium flame and gently roast the coriander and cumin seeds till aromatic. Remove from fire and grind into a corase powder in a clean, dry coffee grinder. Keep aside for later.
* Separate the chopped onions into 2 portions - roughly 2/3 and 1/3 of the whole.
* Heat the oil in a large pan on a medium flame and add the first lot of onions - the 2/3 portion. Fry till golden.
* Add the meat and fry till browned.
* Add all the powdered spices and fry for 2-3 minutes. Add salt to taste.
* Add the remaining 1/3 portion of chopped onion, ginger and garlic pastes and mix well.
* Add 1 1/2 cups of water, stir and bring to a boil.
* Reduce flame to a simmer and cook till the meat is tender. This dish, when cooked, requires that the gravy only be enough to coat the meat thickly. If it is not so, cook to reduce the gravy to required consistency.
* Garnish with corainder and serve with hot Chapatis and a green salad.
posted by infini at 7:53 AM on July 18, 2011 [2 favorites]
You got a recipe for snark fin soup?
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:21 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:21 AM on July 18, 2011
Goat meat is surprisingly hard to find even at the crunchiest of your green markets.
posted by The Whelk at 9:23 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 9:23 AM on July 18, 2011
Whelk: Check in predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods -- it's not hard to find in Texas.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:27 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:27 AM on July 18, 2011
I must be in a goat desert then.
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Whelk: "I must be in a goat desert then."
Whelk, try Fairway. Or Western Beef. Most halal groceries probably also carry it.
posted by zarq at 9:37 AM on July 18, 2011
Whelk, try Fairway. Or Western Beef. Most halal groceries probably also carry it.
posted by zarq at 9:37 AM on July 18, 2011
Goat meat is surprisingly hard to find even at the crunchiest of your green markets.
Cross a bridge, dude. Most of the butchers in Astoria stock it, because goat is popular with both Greeks an Latinos, two of the biggest ethnic groups in the neighbood. Fuck the crunchy greenmarket.
posted by jonmc at 9:38 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Cross a bridge, dude. Most of the butchers in Astoria stock it, because goat is popular with both Greeks an Latinos, two of the biggest ethnic groups in the neighbood. Fuck the crunchy greenmarket.
posted by jonmc at 9:38 AM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Thunder! Thunder! Thundercats, Hooooo..... oh.... Snark....
Come Panthro... to the Cat's Lair!
posted by Debaser626 at 10:15 AM on July 18, 2011
Come Panthro... to the Cat's Lair!
posted by Debaser626 at 10:15 AM on July 18, 2011
You're lucky - the one or two Afro Asian marts here in finland (yes there are so many immigrants NOT that all cultures are mashed into one supershop) and the only halal stuff is beef.
Though I did have nyama choma last month... *burp*... so authentic that its best I don't describe the narrow fly filled lane in Kenyatta Market
posted by infini at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2011
Though I did have nyama choma last month... *burp*... so authentic that its best I don't describe the narrow fly filled lane in Kenyatta Market
posted by infini at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2011
You're lucky - the one or two Afro Asian marts here in finland (yes there are so many immigrants NOT that all cultures are mashed into one supershop)
Heh. here in Queens (the immigrant capitol of the universe) there's a big place on 31st called EuroMarket) that attenpts to that for all the European immigrants in the area. They have good food and a great beer selection. We could use something similar for all the Asian, African, Latino, ans Indian Subcontinent people in town.
posted by jonmc at 11:08 AM on July 18, 2011
Heh. here in Queens (the immigrant capitol of the universe) there's a big place on 31st called EuroMarket) that attenpts to that for all the European immigrants in the area. They have good food and a great beer selection. We could use something similar for all the Asian, African, Latino, ans Indian Subcontinent people in town.
posted by jonmc at 11:08 AM on July 18, 2011
I was tasked for finding a live goat a few years back for some clan guests from Cameroon.
I did not ask but aquired the goat.
posted by clavdivs at 11:12 AM on July 18, 2011
I did not ask but aquired the goat.
posted by clavdivs at 11:12 AM on July 18, 2011
I saw well-dressed young people taking their goat for a walk in New Orleans.
It made me want to have a pet goat that would follow me around me and stare at things with it's weird goat eyes and I could say things like "Bring me my goat" and would be cool.
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on July 18, 2011
It made me want to have a pet goat that would follow me around me and stare at things with it's weird goat eyes and I could say things like "Bring me my goat" and would be cool.
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on July 18, 2011
jonmc - that sounds like the Treasure Island in Chicago
I don't know if the mash up would work as well across all "rest of the world" - the afro asian seems to work since its primarily south asian (lentils, beans and rice overlap) while teh east asians are mashed up together. Hmm, or it might actually.
The Whelk you could then look deep into the goats eyes and turn into George Clooney
posted by infini at 11:27 AM on July 18, 2011
I don't know if the mash up would work as well across all "rest of the world" - the afro asian seems to work since its primarily south asian (lentils, beans and rice overlap) while teh east asians are mashed up together. Hmm, or it might actually.
The Whelk you could then look deep into the goats eyes and turn into George Clooney
posted by infini at 11:27 AM on July 18, 2011
While camping/caving way up in the hills east of Laguna De Sanchez back in 2002 or so, we paid the caretaker of the ejido to slaughter a kid goat and make a stew for us for Thanksgiving. That pot was full of magic.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:37 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:37 AM on July 18, 2011
the last time I was in Astoria visiting a now-defunct intentional community of queer techno-utopians the pot was indeed full of magic.
posted by The Whelk at 11:42 AM on July 18, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 11:42 AM on July 18, 2011
bearwife: "For real? That's like asking to take the fil[ling] ou of Metafilter. At least half this place is snark. And counter snark, complaining about snark, and flaming out because of snark. Without snark the walls would tumble in"
flapjax at midnite: "At least half this place is snark.
At least half? Really? Though I've never surveyed it scientifically, my gut feeling is that this is incorrect. I'd say it's much closer to 1/3rd, maybe less"
---
I'm trying to code the data and run the numbers to find out which claim is true, but I can't decide which of these comments is the snarky one. Therefore, self-tagging would be great and I fully support the idea. Thank you.
Also ... I see what ou did there ... because you can't spell MetaFilter without ...
posted by iamkimiam at 11:42 AM on July 18, 2011
flapjax at midnite: "At least half this place is snark.
At least half? Really? Though I've never surveyed it scientifically, my gut feeling is that this is incorrect. I'd say it's much closer to 1/3rd, maybe less"
---
I'm trying to code the data and run the numbers to find out which claim is true, but I can't decide which of these comments is the snarky one. Therefore, self-tagging would be great and I fully support the idea. Thank you.
Also ... I see what ou did there ... because you can't spell MetaFilter without ...
posted by iamkimiam at 11:42 AM on July 18, 2011
the pot was indeed full of magic.
Well, I meant specifically the metal pot that had the goat and vegetables in it, of course.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:56 AM on July 18, 2011
Well, I meant specifically the metal pot that had the goat and vegetables in it, of course.
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:56 AM on July 18, 2011
I really like this picture of a small Snark sailboat. Here are more (and more). Also: SUPER SNARK.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on July 18, 2011
posted by filthy light thief at 12:42 PM on July 18, 2011
I can see it's too late to tagline a comment from yesterday, so... I'll just show myself out.
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:53 PM on July 18, 2011
posted by herbplarfegan at 12:53 PM on July 18, 2011
I shall slaughter several goats for the glory of metafilter
posted by The Whelk at 1:17 PM on July 18, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 1:17 PM on July 18, 2011
helter metaskelter.
posted by Think_Long at 1:27 PM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 1:27 PM on July 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
Olive Fritte.
Fresh goat is a custom in some areas of the world and no law was broken, god bless america.
posted by clavdivs at 2:14 PM on July 18, 2011
Fresh goat is a custom in some areas of the world and no law was broken, god bless america.
posted by clavdivs at 2:14 PM on July 18, 2011
Oh man, I wished I'd known that song when I made my MeFi inspired mix for the last CD swap.
posted by maryr at 6:47 PM on July 19, 2011
posted by maryr at 6:47 PM on July 19, 2011
maryr, it pays to know your Golden Oldies.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:53 PM on July 19, 2011
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:53 PM on July 19, 2011
My Chubby is limited to twisting.
...In another context that would be painful.
posted by maryr at 8:29 PM on July 19, 2011
...In another context that would be painful.
posted by maryr at 8:29 PM on July 19, 2011
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Pony for ropeladder? Yes [] No [x]
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 11:11 PM on July 16, 2011 [1 favorite]