When, if ever, do admins admit they were wrong? July 11, 2011 7:51 AM Subscribe
When, if ever, do admins admit they were wrong? Throughout the history of MetaFilter and MetaTalk in the 11 years I’ve been here, I see admins justifying or defending their actions and I almost never see admins admitting they made a mistake.
Other points:
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive. Just answer the question.
Other points:
- Reopening a closed thread or undeleting a comment or unbanning a user seems never to have happened.
- MetaTalk is presented as a forum that can be used to raise grievances about MeFi admins’ decisions. In practice it allows people to vent with nearly zero chance of changing the outcome.
- I have no memory of any admin’s acting contrite or even abashed or hesitant about the decisions they made.
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive. Just answer the question.
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive. Just answer the question.
This sentence deserves mockery, derision, and no damn answer at all from anyone. I may disagree with the mods from time to time, once or twice vehemently, but this take-them-to-task horseshit has got to go.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:55 AM on July 11, 2011 [198 favorites]
This sentence deserves mockery, derision, and no damn answer at all from anyone. I may disagree with the mods from time to time, once or twice vehemently, but this take-them-to-task horseshit has got to go.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:55 AM on July 11, 2011 [198 favorites]
I've also never seen the mods admit to the ANY of the 10,000 unsolved murders that occur in America each year. You'd think simple human modesty would make cortex put his hand up for at least ONE of those violent killings, but - nothing. I just hope and pray that their endless blood-lust won't be the death of us all.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:55 AM on July 11, 2011 [60 favorites]
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:55 AM on July 11, 2011 [60 favorites]
"you know what YOU ARE RIGHT. End of story."
Did you try searching for "undelete"?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Did you try searching for "undelete"?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
What a horrible post.
posted by erebora at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2011 [33 favorites]
posted by erebora at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2011 [33 favorites]
You sound kind of hostile..
I'm always under the impression that they talk to one another and gauge each other's opinion on the thread before they close it.
Or it's a clear violation of the rules, in which case of course it should be squished.
posted by royalsong at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2011
I'm always under the impression that they talk to one another and gauge each other's opinion on the thread before they close it.
Or it's a clear violation of the rules, in which case of course it should be squished.
posted by royalsong at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2011
Wow, so fighty.
Anyway, I admit it all the time. Here's a search for me saying I'm sorry in comments.
If you've really read MetaTalk closely for 11 years you've certainly seen us reverse decisions, admit mistakes, and say we're sorry many, many times.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2011 [45 favorites]
Anyway, I admit it all the time. Here's a search for me saying I'm sorry in comments.
If you've really read MetaTalk closely for 11 years you've certainly seen us reverse decisions, admit mistakes, and say we're sorry many, many times.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:57 AM on July 11, 2011 [45 favorites]
Someone's gotta case of the Mondays!
posted by naju at 7:58 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by naju at 7:58 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
We've variously apologize on one occasion or another for misreading something or misunderstanding something, for making a decision based one having misapprehended something, etc. Stuff occasionally gets undeleted, though more often it's a sympathetic "try that thing again with a fresh start" situation since deleted comments and posts don't exist in a vacuum and a do-over is usually the simpler plan and the one less likely to haul arguments-about-the-deletion baggage into what is presumably supposed to be not an argument about the existence of whatever.
We try to be pretty sympathetic about borderline stuff; we have been all kinds of hesitant about sticky or complicated decisions. We basically live in Metatalk when what people want is to talk about the whethers and whys of any given decision.
I don't know if you have something more specific in mind, but it's basically our jobs to be a bit command-decision about stuff that happens here because that way folks can get on with the business of doing what the rest of the site is for. Being able to have a Yes or a No a lot of the time instead of just interminable, unresolvable Maybes is mostly a good thing, even if it means sometimes we're stuck with grey area things where what we have to say is "well, we know it's complicated and there's no great way to have everybody to be happy with this, but we had to make a decision so we went with yes/no/x/y/z here."
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on July 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
We try to be pretty sympathetic about borderline stuff; we have been all kinds of hesitant about sticky or complicated decisions. We basically live in Metatalk when what people want is to talk about the whethers and whys of any given decision.
I don't know if you have something more specific in mind, but it's basically our jobs to be a bit command-decision about stuff that happens here because that way folks can get on with the business of doing what the rest of the site is for. Being able to have a Yes or a No a lot of the time instead of just interminable, unresolvable Maybes is mostly a good thing, even if it means sometimes we're stuck with grey area things where what we have to say is "well, we know it's complicated and there's no great way to have everybody to be happy with this, but we had to make a decision so we went with yes/no/x/y/z here."
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:58 AM on July 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive.
Is this a threat?
posted by dirtdirt at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
Is this a threat?
posted by dirtdirt at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
You know it is your choice to be here. You can decide not to be here if you don't like it. In fact, you can go outside and walk around in the real world and talk to real people if you don't like what those mean mods on that one internet site are doing, or not doing.
posted by TheBones at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by TheBones at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
Let's not forget the Keystone Kops routine.
So I'm clear: jessamyn & cortex, my dredging those up aren't intended as insults or criticism, but rather evidence on how easy it was to find information the OP asked for in such an impolite manner.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
So I'm clear: jessamyn & cortex, my dredging those up aren't intended as insults or criticism, but rather evidence on how easy it was to find information the OP asked for in such an impolite manner.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
When, if ever, does joeclark admit that this was a stupid callout?
posted by shakespeherian at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [41 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:00 AM on July 11, 2011 [41 favorites]
Cortex thought he was wrong once, but he was wrong.
posted by crunchland at 8:01 AM on July 11, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 8:01 AM on July 11, 2011 [12 favorites]
No, no, that keystone kops shit is one of my personal favorite memories here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:03 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:03 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive.
Yeah, see, real nice website you get here... be a real shame if *something* were to happen to it.
posted by fuq at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
Yeah, see, real nice website you get here... be a real shame if *something* were to happen to it.
posted by fuq at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [11 favorites]
How about this, from four flippin' days ago? It was on the front page of MeTa until you posted this.
posted by KathrynT at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
When, if ever, do joeclarks admit they were wrong? Throughout the history of MetaFilter and joeclark in the 11 years you've been here, I see joeclark justifying or defending his actions and I almost never see joeclark admitting he made a mistake.
posted by BeerFilter at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by BeerFilter at 8:04 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Great minds, shakes. Great.
posted by BeerFilter at 8:05 AM on July 11, 2011
posted by BeerFilter at 8:05 AM on July 11, 2011
So I bet you already know what I'm thinking now. That's right: Martinis.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:06 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:06 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:07 AM on July 11, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:07 AM on July 11, 2011 [12 favorites]
It's like you haven't really been reading for 11 years.
posted by ericost at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by ericost at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I bet a plate of portobellas that joeclark doesn't bother posting again in this thread.
posted by Rumple at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
'Fess up Mods: which one of you gave joeclark the urine flavoured Cheerios this morning?
posted by romakimmy at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by romakimmy at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
And why exactly have the mods never admitted that they are not members of the Communist Party? I have never once heard any one of them openly deny that they are not sleeper agents of ComIntern, here to destroy our way of life.
This would be a very bad time for them to flee the country to Mother Russia.
posted by griphus at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
This would be a very bad time for them to flee the country to Mother Russia.
posted by griphus at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
Shakes: I like the way you think!
posted by crush-onastick at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by crush-onastick at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is really a pep-rally in disguise. Joe Clark is really a sock puppet for Jessamyn, and she just wanted to see how many people would leap to the mod's defense.
posted by crunchland at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchland at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to act defensive. Just answer the question.
I admitted I was wrong a few days ago. I do it fairly frequently.
* Reopening a closed thread or undeleting a comment or unbanning a user seems never to have happened.
* I have no memory of any admin’s acting contrite or even abashed or hesitant about the decisions they made.
I'm afraid this is you either employing your own confirmation bias or just ignoring selectively. I've undeleted comments, I've undeleted posts and I've unbanned users. I apologize in MeTa fairly regularly. Most of this stuff with users happens a little more behind the scenes than right up front in MeTa. We're lucky enough to have enough time to be able to work this stuff out with users directly and not have to have everything come to MeTa for a referendum. And yeah, personally, I'd like MeTa to be less of an unfettered venting location and we've been working to make this happen. This thread, honestly, is not helping.
You are almost unerringly hostile to us, both on this site and over email. What you perceive as defensiveness from us may just be frustration because we have manners and we try to not respond to hostility with hostility. You act like you simultaneously despise us and also want us to fix things for you as if the fact that they aren't the way you like it is something we did to you personally. No one else on the site is as aggressively negative towards us as you are, and that's a tall order. This is, for some reason, the way you view the world and interact with it and we can't change that, so we try to work through things the way we normally do. If the worst you can say about it is that we're defensive, I can live with that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [163 favorites]
I admitted I was wrong a few days ago. I do it fairly frequently.
* Reopening a closed thread or undeleting a comment or unbanning a user seems never to have happened.
* I have no memory of any admin’s acting contrite or even abashed or hesitant about the decisions they made.
I'm afraid this is you either employing your own confirmation bias or just ignoring selectively. I've undeleted comments, I've undeleted posts and I've unbanned users. I apologize in MeTa fairly regularly. Most of this stuff with users happens a little more behind the scenes than right up front in MeTa. We're lucky enough to have enough time to be able to work this stuff out with users directly and not have to have everything come to MeTa for a referendum. And yeah, personally, I'd like MeTa to be less of an unfettered venting location and we've been working to make this happen. This thread, honestly, is not helping.
You are almost unerringly hostile to us, both on this site and over email. What you perceive as defensiveness from us may just be frustration because we have manners and we try to not respond to hostility with hostility. You act like you simultaneously despise us and also want us to fix things for you as if the fact that they aren't the way you like it is something we did to you personally. No one else on the site is as aggressively negative towards us as you are, and that's a tall order. This is, for some reason, the way you view the world and interact with it and we can't change that, so we try to work through things the way we normally do. If the worst you can say about it is that we're defensive, I can live with that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [163 favorites]
I have no memory of any admin’s acting contrite or even abashed or hesitant
This rubs me the wrong way. It's not enough to say "oops! I'll fix that" and fix something? Now they have to act contrite, abashed, or hesitant, too?
posted by salvia at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
This rubs me the wrong way. It's not enough to say "oops! I'll fix that" and fix something? Now they have to act contrite, abashed, or hesitant, too?
posted by salvia at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
...The fuck?
posted by Skorgu at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by Skorgu at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2011 [6 favorites]
...we have manners and we try to not respond to hostility with hostility.
I KNEW they weren't true Americans! You'll never make a Hollywood film again, you hear me? Never!
posted by griphus at 8:12 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I KNEW they weren't true Americans! You'll never make a Hollywood film again, you hear me? Never!
posted by griphus at 8:12 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I have found the mods here gracious and willing to admit their own mistakes. They aren't perfect and it never seemed to me like they were afraid to admit that, even if sometimes that imperfection meant not admitting. They are no different than most people in that regard, and I think much better than most internet moderators. People throw a lot of feces at internet moderators and ours generally respond with grace.
posted by caddis at 8:12 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by caddis at 8:12 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
What. The. Fuck?
posted by foggy out there now at 8:14 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by foggy out there now at 8:14 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm trying to find a reason for this post that isn't "pick a fight for no reason", and I can't.
posted by DWRoelands at 8:16 AM on July 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by DWRoelands at 8:16 AM on July 11, 2011 [5 favorites]
The overriding impression I get is this: We’re the admins, and that makes us right.Aside from joeclark's assertion that deletes never get undeleted et al, which has been clearly refuted, this is Matt's website, and he's free to make the rules. If we don't like the rules, we can leave.
posted by adamrice at 8:17 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I really wish the mods would just close this down, so that everyone else can't use their Monday angers to vent on this thread.
posted by smackfu at 8:18 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by smackfu at 8:18 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I want a Pony request: Shun button.
Shunning as a form of punishment has really fallen out of favor but it's time to bring it back and where better to start than with joeclark?
posted by Bonzai at 8:19 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
Shunning as a form of punishment has really fallen out of favor but it's time to bring it back and where better to start than with joeclark?
posted by Bonzai at 8:19 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
I have the urge to say something funny, witty or clever. But this is just crazy foolishness and there are better things to do than give attention to teh crazy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:19 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:19 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
joeclark needs a hug.
posted by desjardins at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think I shall laugh and laugh and laugh now.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
particularly Jessamyn and PB
WTF has pb done? Dudeman writes code, he doesn't ban people.
posted by gleuschk at 8:23 AM on July 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
WTF has pb done? Dudeman writes code, he doesn't ban people.
posted by gleuschk at 8:23 AM on July 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
Maybe if all the admins relocated to East of Yonge St, joeclark would like them better.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
joeclark, I hope your day gets better. (Yours too, mods!)
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011
Wait, PB?
PB?
I always knew his calm and friendly approach when we report bugs in new features he's built or we describe the crazy new perhaps-not-technologically-feasible-in-the-next-century features we want was a smokescreen for deep-welled reserves of evil!
posted by julen at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
PB?
I always knew his calm and friendly approach when we report bugs in new features he's built or we describe the crazy new perhaps-not-technologically-feasible-in-the-next-century features we want was a smokescreen for deep-welled reserves of evil!
posted by julen at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
gleuschk: "WTF has pb done? Dudeman writes code, he doesn't ban people."
Yeah, joeclark is betraying basic lack of knowledge of how things work around here.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, joeclark is betraying basic lack of knowledge of how things work around here.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The lack of response here makes joeclark seem inaccessible. Were it not for the stupid logic trap posed in the framing of this post, this should be closed/ deleted since no good is coming from it.
No one else on the site is as aggressively negative towards us as you are
Wow.
posted by yerfatma at 8:26 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
No one else on the site is as aggressively negative towards us as you are
Wow.
posted by yerfatma at 8:26 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've also never seen the mods admit to the ANY of the 10,000 unsolved murders that occur in America each year.
And what about all those feet? What ever happened to that story?
posted by ryanrs at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
And what about all those feet? What ever happened to that story?
posted by ryanrs at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
This would be a very bad time for admins, particularly Jessamyn and PB, to buy Brazillian Reais. It's a highly overvalued currency
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [19 favorites]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [19 favorites]
Be careful, there are rules for communicating with joeclark.
Posted anon to avoid teh crazy.
posted by anonymous account at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [40 favorites]
Posted anon to avoid teh crazy.
posted by anonymous account at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2011 [40 favorites]
No one else on the site is as aggressively negative towards us as you are
Wow.
Yeah, that seems like a tall order.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wow.
Yeah, that seems like a tall order.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Hi Joe. I passed you late Saturday night on Christie St. I was walking back to my bike from the Salsa Festival. Myself and some friends waited like three hours in a Peruvian restaurant to get some simple appetizers, but it was okay, because the man was run off his feet with probably more customers than he deals with in a month, and he stayed in good humour, despite the overwhelming situation. It was nice to just sit. I would have said hi when I passed you, but you were fiddling with your ipod and probably wouldn't be able to place me. It was a very pleasant evening Saturday night. Made me happy.
posted by TimTypeZed at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by TimTypeZed at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Am I the only one who thinks that joeclark is actually Pat from Achewood?
posted by strangely stunted trees at 8:30 AM on July 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by strangely stunted trees at 8:30 AM on July 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
When did the mods stop beating their wives?
posted by blue_beetle at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Awwwwwwkward.
posted by iamabot at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by iamabot at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The lack of response here makes joeclark seem inaccessible.
His abject cowardice has sabotaged an otherwise promising flameout. Very disappointing, I must say.
posted by ryanrs at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
His abject cowardice has sabotaged an otherwise promising flameout. Very disappointing, I must say.
posted by ryanrs at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
Someone queue up the "oh sorry, I was off doing something far more important than responding to the deliberately fighty and shit stirring post I made in meta" response.
posted by iamabot at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by iamabot at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ok, no follow up clarification posts from joeclark 45min into this, I think it's time to close this up.
Note to joeclark: this isn't me flexing my INFALLIBLE MOD POWERS to shut you down, I'm actually doing you a favor because if I left this open people would continue to treat your post like a Piñata for the next month.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2011 [125 favorites]
Note to joeclark: this isn't me flexing my INFALLIBLE MOD POWERS to shut you down, I'm actually doing you a favor because if I left this open people would continue to treat your post like a Piñata for the next month.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2011 [125 favorites]
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posted by Rumple at 7:55 AM on July 11, 2011 [38 favorites]