Should the profiles of deceased MeFites be preserved? July 16, 2009 9:09 AM Subscribe
When an account is disabled, all the profile information disappears. Might it be better to preserve the information when the account is disabled due to the owner's death?
Under most circumstances, it makes sense to delete the profile information when an account is disabled. For example, it's appropriate when someone wants to leave MetaFilter of their own volition and doesn't want to leave any trace. It's also appropriate when a spammer or scammer shows up and gets the banhammer, and we want to flush them down the memory hole.
This morning, though, seized by a fit of 10th-anniversary nostalgia, I was browsing through the wiki and found the page of deceased MeFites. There are good people listed there, people who were appreciated for their contributions to the community: Radio7, alicila, poopy, Cancergiggles and Soulbee, just to name a few. But if you visit their profile pages, hardly anything remains except for their post histories and a blunt "This account is disabled," indistinguishable from the page of a banned self-linker.
Even if it's too late to restore the profiles of those who have already passed on, perhaps, in the future, when we lose a good MeFite, his or her profile could remain as a memorial? Maybe a note could even be added to indicate the date on which MetaFilter learned of the death. It would be respectful and appropriate, I think. I know it's what I would want.
Under most circumstances, it makes sense to delete the profile information when an account is disabled. For example, it's appropriate when someone wants to leave MetaFilter of their own volition and doesn't want to leave any trace. It's also appropriate when a spammer or scammer shows up and gets the banhammer, and we want to flush them down the memory hole.
This morning, though, seized by a fit of 10th-anniversary nostalgia, I was browsing through the wiki and found the page of deceased MeFites. There are good people listed there, people who were appreciated for their contributions to the community: Radio7, alicila, poopy, Cancergiggles and Soulbee, just to name a few. But if you visit their profile pages, hardly anything remains except for their post histories and a blunt "This account is disabled," indistinguishable from the page of a banned self-linker.
Even if it's too late to restore the profiles of those who have already passed on, perhaps, in the future, when we lose a good MeFite, his or her profile could remain as a memorial? Maybe a note could even be added to indicate the date on which MetaFilter learned of the death. It would be respectful and appropriate, I think. I know it's what I would want.
It would be respectful and appropriate, I think. I know it's what I would want.
But we have know way of knowing what the deceased Mefite would want, and if they would prefer not to be memorialized permanently in that way then it's definitely not respectful and perhaps not appropriate.
And there are all kinds of sticky situations - like what if the Mefite wanted it but it was painful to their surviving friends and family in some way? Would Mefites have to create some kind of living will or power of attorney to determine who would make those decisions?
I see where you are coming from, but I think the practical problems are legitimate and prohibitive.
posted by bunnycup at 9:30 AM on July 16, 2009
But we have know way of knowing what the deceased Mefite would want, and if they would prefer not to be memorialized permanently in that way then it's definitely not respectful and perhaps not appropriate.
And there are all kinds of sticky situations - like what if the Mefite wanted it but it was painful to their surviving friends and family in some way? Would Mefites have to create some kind of living will or power of attorney to determine who would make those decisions?
I see where you are coming from, but I think the practical problems are legitimate and prohibitive.
posted by bunnycup at 9:30 AM on July 16, 2009
I am hereby declaring that I want my profile page kept intact after I pass away.
posted by gman at 9:42 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by gman at 9:42 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
my internet identities are going to die with me.
posted by desjardins at 9:43 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 9:43 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
But we have know way of knowing what the deceased Mefite would want
When I die, I want a 300 comment MeTa thread about what a stellar contributor I was (obviously, you can lie if you have to).
Oh, and bury me in blue.
posted by JaredSeth at 9:44 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
When I die, I want a 300 comment MeTa thread about what a stellar contributor I was (obviously, you can lie if you have to).
Oh, and bury me in blue.
posted by JaredSeth at 9:44 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
would a better solution be to differentiate in some way between accounts that were banhammered and those that were merely closed? So as not to make any passive association between spammers and those legitimate members who are (for whatever reason) no longer with us?
"This account is closed" vs. "This account is disabled" ("This account was *fucking banhammered*" is probably a non-starter)
posted by namewithoutwords at 9:46 AM on July 16, 2009
"This account is closed" vs. "This account is disabled" ("This account was *fucking banhammered*" is probably a non-starter)
posted by namewithoutwords at 9:46 AM on July 16, 2009
...when the account is disabled due to the owner's death?
Are accounts actually disabled for that reason? Why?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:50 AM on July 16, 2009
Are accounts actually disabled for that reason? Why?
posted by Sys Rq at 9:50 AM on July 16, 2009
Rather than making a blanket policy, you could always have a morbid little set of radio buttons as part of the user preferences:
Wording and options to taste.
posted by adipocere at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
() Upon my death, just do the standard "This account has been disabled."
() Upon my death, leave up my information
() Upon my death, leave up my information, links to memorial threads, and service detailsWording and options to taste.
posted by adipocere at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
Now, when I die, praise me in a 300 comment thread,
Put down copious periods and comments you liked most,
Put favorites galore on my profile,
So you can let all the search eninges know of my best post.
An' give me six moderator pall bearers,
Let the boys of MeFiMusic sing me a song.
Put yellow star beside my name,
So we can flag it all as we move along.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009 [14 favorites]
Put down copious periods and comments you liked most,
Put favorites galore on my profile,
So you can let all the search eninges know of my best post.
An' give me six moderator pall bearers,
Let the boys of MeFiMusic sing me a song.
Put yellow star beside my name,
So we can flag it all as we move along.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009 [14 favorites]
How about a simple "If I were to die, please preserve my profile" check box?
posted by gc at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by gc at 9:51 AM on July 16, 2009
I am hereby declaring that I want my profile page kept intact after I pass away.
posted by gman...
my internet identities are going to die with me.
posted by desjardins...
The problem in a nutshell. Clearly, everyone needs to include instructions for disposal of their Metafilter accounts in their wills.
posted by bonehead at 9:56 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by gman...
my internet identities are going to die with me.
posted by desjardins...
The problem in a nutshell. Clearly, everyone needs to include instructions for disposal of their Metafilter accounts in their wills.
posted by bonehead at 9:56 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
How about a simple "If I were to die, please preserve my profile" check box?
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 AM on July 16, 2009 [52 favorites]
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 AM on July 16, 2009 [52 favorites]
The problem in a nutshell. Clearly, everyone needs to include instructions for disposal of their Metafilter accounts in their wills.
Yeah, basically this is what wills are for. People probably aren't used to thinking of it that way because the Internet is a relatively recent phenomenon, but if you make your intentions clear and offer directions to the executor of your estate, that should take care of it.
posted by hermitosis at 10:00 AM on July 16, 2009
Yeah, basically this is what wills are for. People probably aren't used to thinking of it that way because the Internet is a relatively recent phenomenon, but if you make your intentions clear and offer directions to the executor of your estate, that should take care of it.
posted by hermitosis at 10:00 AM on July 16, 2009
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
Don't forget to fill out your profile donor card!
posted by gman at 10:01 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Don't forget to fill out your profile donor card!
posted by gman at 10:01 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
When I die, I want my remains to be fed to the Corpse-eating Zombie Servers in Cabal Central. Also, I want to be savaged in a multi-thread MetaTalk Armageddon Death Match. Also also, I want my profile to auto-redirect to a live maggot-cam. Also also also, I want my sockpuppet army to be run by bots that randomly post from an extensive database of pre-written comments, just to send shivers down the survivor's backs. Also, I want a pony, named Also. A dead Pony, to pull my poor, broken down handcart to the gates of Hell. I hear the road is long and dark and paved with liberals.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:05 AM on July 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:05 AM on July 16, 2009 [6 favorites]
How about a simple "If I were to die, please preserve my profile" check box?
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
I know, right? In the future, people will die? WTF?
posted by owtytrof at 10:09 AM on July 16, 2009
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
I know, right? In the future, people will die? WTF?
posted by owtytrof at 10:09 AM on July 16, 2009
When I die, I want my memorial MeTa thread to allow use of the img tag. Please?
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:10 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:10 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Just a couple things I need:
1. See that my grave is kept clean
2. Keep my profile up
3. pb - please whip up some script or something that utilizes the Mefi Markov Generator and spits out a comment from me once in awhile?
posted by marxchivist at 10:23 AM on July 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
1. See that my grave is kept clean
2. Keep my profile up
3. pb - please whip up some script or something that utilizes the Mefi Markov Generator and spits out a comment from me once in awhile?
posted by marxchivist at 10:23 AM on July 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
When I die, divvy my favorites up among the deserving.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:31 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:31 AM on July 16, 2009
Your death is confirmed
Your account is disabled
You have a nice day
posted by WalterMitty at 10:32 AM on July 16, 2009
Your account is disabled
You have a nice day
posted by WalterMitty at 10:32 AM on July 16, 2009
I'm sure other mefites have died that we don't even know about. Accounts aren't closed simply for inactivity. I don't know how you'd know I'd died unless I announced it beforehand. No one else has my password.
posted by desjardins at 10:39 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by desjardins at 10:39 AM on July 16, 2009
Here's my secret: secret: I am not GuyZero. My name is Ryan; I inherited the account from the previous GuyZero, just as someone else will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real GuyZero either. His name was Cummerbund. The real GuyZero has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Patagonia.
posted by GuyZero at 10:42 AM on July 16, 2009 [16 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 10:42 AM on July 16, 2009 [16 favorites]
Since we lack a feature for it at the moment, and others have stated their preferences, here goes:
MeMail the mod on duty,
The musical one, and bid him post
In MetaTalk a brief notice.
Let the members dot me with such periods
as they usually put, and let the trolls
Bring ugly quotes from my last year's arguments.
Let black be my default color scheme.
The final moderator was my surgical team.
Take from the archive of posts,
if you have a good search for it, that comment
Which once got me a lot of favorites
And link to it so as to cover my ass.
If my past comments are crude, they come
To show how cold I was, and dumb.
Let my profile details be seen.
The final moderator was my surgical team.
posted by adipocere at 10:50 AM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
MeMail the mod on duty,
The musical one, and bid him post
In MetaTalk a brief notice.
Let the members dot me with such periods
as they usually put, and let the trolls
Bring ugly quotes from my last year's arguments.
Let black be my default color scheme.
The final moderator was my surgical team.
Take from the archive of posts,
if you have a good search for it, that comment
Which once got me a lot of favorites
And link to it so as to cover my ass.
If my past comments are crude, they come
To show how cold I was, and dumb.
Let my profile details be seen.
The final moderator was my surgical team.
posted by adipocere at 10:50 AM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
Metafilter users will know they're dying when they realize that the light at the end of the tunnel is actually a professional white background.
posted by Skot at 10:53 AM on July 16, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by Skot at 10:53 AM on July 16, 2009 [9 favorites]
I now want my tombstone to say "This account has been disabled."
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:54 AM on July 16, 2009 [14 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:54 AM on July 16, 2009 [14 favorites]
( ) Upon my death, just do the standard "This account has been disabled."
( ) Upon my death, leave up my information
(X) Upon my death, leave up my information, links to memorial threads, and service details
(X) Other: Please find enclosed $2000 to be used to cover bar tabs at MeFi meetups in my honor.
posted by Plutor at 10:58 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
( ) Upon my death, leave up my information
(X) Upon my death, leave up my information, links to memorial threads, and service details
(X) Other: Please find enclosed $2000 to be used to cover bar tabs at MeFi meetups in my honor.
posted by Plutor at 10:58 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm in favor of disabling the deceaseds' accounts to fight the zombie menace.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:17 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by Pronoiac at 11:17 AM on July 16, 2009
Present company of zombies excluded, of course. Though I'm not sure about Astro Zombie 3.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:19 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by Pronoiac at 11:19 AM on July 16, 2009
How 'bout:
- This account was banned by the Moderation Team
- This account was disabled by the Account Holder
- This account was disabled due to the death of the Account Holder (and leave the info as is unless the family requests something else)
I've long thought it should be spelled out who closed the account.
posted by deborah at 11:39 AM on July 16, 2009
- This account was banned by the Moderation Team
- This account was disabled by the Account Holder
- This account was disabled due to the death of the Account Holder (and leave the info as is unless the family requests something else)
I've long thought it should be spelled out who closed the account.
posted by deborah at 11:39 AM on July 16, 2009
Now I sign into the blue
I pray they gray, and AskMe too
If I should die, 'fore I log out
I pray my soul, you'll still read 'bout.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:51 AM on July 16, 2009
I pray they gray, and AskMe too
If I should die, 'fore I log out
I pray my soul, you'll still read 'bout.
posted by SpiffyRob at 11:51 AM on July 16, 2009
I have no dog in this fight, but this is a great thread.
Stop all the posts, cut off the contact page
Prevent the trolls from flaming each other in faux outrage.
Silence Mefi Music and restore the image tag,
Bring out the youtube videos... let the JRun errors lag.
Let elephants abound, pissing in the thread,
Scribbling on the boards the message: He is Dead.
Put single dots below and with golden stars to adorn it,
Let moderators sidebar every popular favorite.
He was my SLYT, my Op-Ed, my Gag Post, my longboat.
My breaking news and my annual April Fools joke.
My callout, my meetup, my CD swap, my song,
I thought love would last forever: I was wrong.
The cabal's not wanted now, time out every one.
Pack up the server and dismantle the Sun.
No-follow the links and close the thread,
The internet is over now, everything's been read.
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:08 PM on July 16, 2009 [21 favorites]
Stop all the posts, cut off the contact page
Prevent the trolls from flaming each other in faux outrage.
Silence Mefi Music and restore the image tag,
Bring out the youtube videos... let the JRun errors lag.
Let elephants abound, pissing in the thread,
Scribbling on the boards the message: He is Dead.
Put single dots below and with golden stars to adorn it,
Let moderators sidebar every popular favorite.
He was my SLYT, my Op-Ed, my Gag Post, my longboat.
My breaking news and my annual April Fools joke.
My callout, my meetup, my CD swap, my song,
I thought love would last forever: I was wrong.
The cabal's not wanted now, time out every one.
Pack up the server and dismantle the Sun.
No-follow the links and close the thread,
The internet is over now, everything's been read.
posted by anotherpanacea at 12:08 PM on July 16, 2009 [21 favorites]
Very nice!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:13 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:13 PM on July 16, 2009
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast.
Forgive me
they were delicious
and you're dead
so I figured they were up for grabs
posted by GuyZero at 12:18 PM on July 16, 2009 [23 favorites]
the plums
that were in
the icebox
and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast.
Forgive me
they were delicious
and you're dead
so I figured they were up for grabs
posted by GuyZero at 12:18 PM on July 16, 2009 [23 favorites]
Hard to say. My father passed, but his instant messenger account still exists, and so it comes in my buddy list as an offline contact*. We don't have the password to his account, so we can't disable it; of course I could pull it out of my buddy list, but I kind of like seeing it there. Someday Yahoo will disabled it for lack of use, if I don't try to log in once and a while (which, even without the password, will re-enable it for a time) and I'll probably be sad that day.
*if his status ever changes, my head asplode
posted by davejay at 12:26 PM on July 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
*if his status ever changes, my head asplode
posted by davejay at 12:26 PM on July 16, 2009 [3 favorites]
Very nice GuyZero! I especially admire your restraint in avoiding the line "and so cold" in a thread about dead people. Bravo!
posted by dirtdirt at 12:27 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by dirtdirt at 12:27 PM on July 16, 2009
Apologies to those who loathe the WCW-plums-poem meme.
posted by GuyZero at 12:38 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by GuyZero at 12:38 PM on July 16, 2009
If I die, please preserve my profile?
So no, not a terribly futuristic idea, just a new twist.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 12:49 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
So no, not a terribly futuristic idea, just a new twist.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 12:49 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
How about a simple "If I were to die, please preserve my profile" check box?
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
We can rebuild him from his profile -- only better.
The problem is how does Metafilter find out I'm dead? I don't have any IRL friends who would think to post here upon my demise, timely or untimely as it may be. Is there a greasemonkey script for this? What if I don't use Firefox?
Also, I am all for "This account was *fucking banhammered*" where appropriate.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:02 PM on July 16, 2009
Have you guys ever noticed how fucking weird the future is?
We can rebuild him from his profile -- only better.
The problem is how does Metafilter find out I'm dead? I don't have any IRL friends who would think to post here upon my demise, timely or untimely as it may be. Is there a greasemonkey script for this? What if I don't use Firefox?
Also, I am all for "This account was *fucking banhammered*" where appropriate.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:02 PM on July 16, 2009
Even if it's too late to restore the profiles of those who have already passed on, perhaps, in the future, when we lose a good MeFite, his or her profile could remain as a memorial? Maybe a note could even be added to indicate the date on which MetaFilter learned of the death. It would be respectful and appropriate, I think. I know it's what I would want.
I agree wholeheartedly.
posted by bigmusic at 1:10 PM on July 16, 2009
I agree wholeheartedly.
posted by bigmusic at 1:10 PM on July 16, 2009
Here's my secret: secret: I am not GuyZero. My name is Ryan...
The Dread Pirate Ryan just doesn't work, you know?
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:11 PM on July 16, 2009
The Dread Pirate Ryan just doesn't work, you know?
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:11 PM on July 16, 2009
Hmm, maybe "I've finally joined the cabal" might be better on a tombstone.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:19 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:19 PM on July 16, 2009
When I am to die (this If I were stuff is kind of weird, huh?) my fondest wish would be for my 300+ comment obit thread to have actually ocurred while I was alive so that I could see it.
But yeah, I'd also want my profile stuff to remain.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:26 PM on July 16, 2009
But yeah, I'd also want my profile stuff to remain.
posted by Navelgazer at 3:26 PM on July 16, 2009
I have no dog in this fight,
So...who'd you con into letting you live forever?
posted by niles at 3:41 PM on July 16, 2009
So...who'd you con into letting you live forever?
posted by niles at 3:41 PM on July 16, 2009
Cerberus, apparantly.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:46 PM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:46 PM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
I suppose this should be a reminder to all to update your will, and to include the disposal of your internet identities as part of it. ::sigh::
posted by epersonae at 4:12 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by epersonae at 4:12 PM on July 16, 2009
I'm leaving everything to my MetaFilter spouses.
posted by davejay at 4:16 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by davejay at 4:16 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Is this a bad time to mention that flapjax at midnight was briefly dead on Wikipedia? Welcome back to life Samm!
posted by peeedro at 5:16 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by peeedro at 5:16 PM on July 16, 2009
Everybody now, leaning into the chorus at the karaoke machine:
...and it seems to meposted by Fiasco da Gama at 5:23 PM on July 16, 2009
That you lived your life
Like a handle/username
Never knowing who to complain to
When the flame set in...
Just so there's not a conspicuous absence of modliness in here (kind of a busy day for us for various reasons):
We've been talking about this on email throughout the day, weighing the pros and cons of making an implementation change vs. not and how it might work if we did. At this point we've had a couple ideas, but we're still sort of batting it around.
Even if it's too late to restore the profiles of those who have already passed on
Just to be clear on a minor point: when profile go dark with a disabled account, the information is hidden, not deleted, so nobody's info has been zapped.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:45 PM on July 16, 2009
We've been talking about this on email throughout the day, weighing the pros and cons of making an implementation change vs. not and how it might work if we did. At this point we've had a couple ideas, but we're still sort of batting it around.
Even if it's too late to restore the profiles of those who have already passed on
Just to be clear on a minor point: when profile go dark with a disabled account, the information is hidden, not deleted, so nobody's info has been zapped.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:45 PM on July 16, 2009
Well, I am old, who knows I could just die. If I do I kind of would like my spouse to be able to put a little obit into my profile. I certainly would have liked to have seen this with a few other members who have passed. This is community. There are others who are much more integrated into this community than I for whom this might be much more compelling. Anyway, most communities have mechanisms for dealing with death etc. and we do not.
posted by caddis at 6:28 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by caddis at 6:28 PM on July 16, 2009
I don't know what's more depressing, the thought of death, or the thought that none of my interne friends might find out about my eventual death and I'd just disappear into the ether like so much spam.
posted by Phire at 6:44 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by Phire at 6:44 PM on July 16, 2009
I think ColdChef should be put in charge of this.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:57 PM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 7:57 PM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
How about a hidden field in the profile to leave a "last message" to the world: sort of a way to say goodbye.
If the account is flipped to "Deceased", the last message field is then displayed.
It might be something like this:
caddis is correct, up there a ways. We don't have a mechanism past putting lone periods into posts, and this is primarily about the collective 'us', the group of people who make up Metafilter. I've said before that the relationships we make here can be as real as we want them to be, and I count quite a number of you as friends.
This problem, as it were, is not limited to Metafilter. What happens to people's Flickr sets, or Picasa photos, or any other online repository after a person's death is still largely ignored territory. I'd like to see us be the leader in adopting policies and procedures that respect the people both living and passed who make Metafilter what it is.
posted by pjern at 7:59 PM on July 16, 2009
If the account is flipped to "Deceased", the last message field is then displayed.
It might be something like this:
Hi! If you're reading this, I'm dead. Sorry. Feel free to tell the world what a great guy I was.
caddis is correct, up there a ways. We don't have a mechanism past putting lone periods into posts, and this is primarily about the collective 'us', the group of people who make up Metafilter. I've said before that the relationships we make here can be as real as we want them to be, and I count quite a number of you as friends.
This problem, as it were, is not limited to Metafilter. What happens to people's Flickr sets, or Picasa photos, or any other online repository after a person's death is still largely ignored territory. I'd like to see us be the leader in adopting policies and procedures that respect the people both living and passed who make Metafilter what it is.
posted by pjern at 7:59 PM on July 16, 2009
Meatbomb: He's not here at the meeting, right? He's automatically in charge :)
posted by pjern at 8:00 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by pjern at 8:00 PM on July 16, 2009
I think it's a good question for any community.
Funny it's happening around the 10th: it's when you get old that people die around you.
In real life communities, memories of the deceased are not actively erased, especially public contributions. Au contraire. We generally regret not to have enough space for mementos.
Of course the Internet changes everything: memory space is growing toward the infinite with plunging cost. Data is treasure.
So I would say: if you can keep it, keep it.
Anyway, some people will want to have their memory erased. Maybe something simple could be implemented, with a yes/no choice.
posted by bru at 8:36 PM on July 16, 2009
Funny it's happening around the 10th: it's when you get old that people die around you.
In real life communities, memories of the deceased are not actively erased, especially public contributions. Au contraire. We generally regret not to have enough space for mementos.
Of course the Internet changes everything: memory space is growing toward the infinite with plunging cost. Data is treasure.
So I would say: if you can keep it, keep it.
Anyway, some people will want to have their memory erased. Maybe something simple could be implemented, with a yes/no choice.
posted by bru at 8:36 PM on July 16, 2009
Put me down on the side for keeping the information there.
Unless it's specially requested, I just don't see a reason to hide the information. It seems … wrong, somehow, to treat members of the community in good standing who are decased the same way we treat people who've been banned for misbehavior. A simple "This user is deceased." would be better all around.
It is interesting, if slightly morbid, to consider how other communities have dealt with the same problem. The Amateur Radio community, where it's entirely common to have lots of people know you only by your callsign and not your real name, has been dealing with it for decades. The FCC has a whole policy detailing how callsigns are 'recycled' after the owner dies (or becomes a 'silent key').* It's not uncommon, if you apply for and get a particularly short or desirable callsign, for that call to have been used by several generations of operators before you. It's possible to look up and see who they were, in fact, which I always thought was neat.
Those regulations didn't just come out of nowhere; they were developed in response to what I'm sure were a lot of emotional situations over the years. They strike me as the result of a lot of people trying to do, on a case by case basis, whatever they thought was best, and then using that as precedent going forward. Overall I think it works pretty well.
Although MeFi doesn't have some of the problems the FCC does, because there's no mechanism for users to officially change names (nor is the format for names so restrictive as to create a shortage, nor are there agreed-upon standards for what makes one name more desirable than another), I think all community-oriented websites will eventually have to address many of the same concerns.
* Basically, the policy is that there's a two-year grace period during which close relatives of the deceased can apply for and get the deceased's call, if they wish, as can close relatives of prior holders of the call. If none of them do, the call sits idle and after two years goes back into the pool where it can be assigned out to a new licensee.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:38 PM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
Unless it's specially requested, I just don't see a reason to hide the information. It seems … wrong, somehow, to treat members of the community in good standing who are decased the same way we treat people who've been banned for misbehavior. A simple "This user is deceased." would be better all around.
It is interesting, if slightly morbid, to consider how other communities have dealt with the same problem. The Amateur Radio community, where it's entirely common to have lots of people know you only by your callsign and not your real name, has been dealing with it for decades. The FCC has a whole policy detailing how callsigns are 'recycled' after the owner dies (or becomes a 'silent key').* It's not uncommon, if you apply for and get a particularly short or desirable callsign, for that call to have been used by several generations of operators before you. It's possible to look up and see who they were, in fact, which I always thought was neat.
Those regulations didn't just come out of nowhere; they were developed in response to what I'm sure were a lot of emotional situations over the years. They strike me as the result of a lot of people trying to do, on a case by case basis, whatever they thought was best, and then using that as precedent going forward. Overall I think it works pretty well.
Although MeFi doesn't have some of the problems the FCC does, because there's no mechanism for users to officially change names (nor is the format for names so restrictive as to create a shortage, nor are there agreed-upon standards for what makes one name more desirable than another), I think all community-oriented websites will eventually have to address many of the same concerns.
* Basically, the policy is that there's a two-year grace period during which close relatives of the deceased can apply for and get the deceased's call, if they wish, as can close relatives of prior holders of the call. If none of them do, the call sits idle and after two years goes back into the pool where it can be assigned out to a new licensee.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:38 PM on July 16, 2009 [5 favorites]
One thing I worry about is if someone decided to announce that I had died even when I hadn't, and then I had to show up in the Memorial Thread, making it clear I really was still alive. I'd look like a total goober.
Well, I don't really worry about this, but I do wonder just how big of a goober one would look like in that type of situation.
posted by Ms. Saint at 8:47 PM on July 16, 2009
Well, I don't really worry about this, but I do wonder just how big of a goober one would look like in that type of situation.
posted by Ms. Saint at 8:47 PM on July 16, 2009
Tom Sawyer would like a word with you.
posted by The Whelk at 8:53 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 8:53 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Oh Dead mefite, the posts, the posts are calling
From blue to green, and down the mountain grey
The poster's gone, and all the threads are dying.
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must stay.
But come ye back when poster's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Deadmefite, oh Deadmefite, I love you so.
And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.
And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 8:54 PM on July 16, 2009
From blue to green, and down the mountain grey
The poster's gone, and all the threads are dying.
'Tis you, 'tis you must go and I must stay.
But come ye back when poster's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Deadmefite, oh Deadmefite, I love you so.
And if you come, when all the flowers are dying
And I am dead, as dead I well may be
You'll come and find the place where I am lying
And kneel and say an "Ave" there for me.
And I shall hear, tho' soft you tread above me
And all my dreams will warm and sweeter be
If you'll not fail to tell me that you love me
I'll simply sleep in peace until you come to me.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 8:54 PM on July 16, 2009
I'm favoriting this whole post, not because I agree with it, but because the Mefite poets are inspired tonight.
anotherpanacea, I'd favorite you 100+ times for your contribution alone.
Oh, and if I die, don't let grapefruitmoon take my cats. I hear her cat is a dick.
posted by misha at 9:09 PM on July 16, 2009
anotherpanacea, I'd favorite you 100+ times for your contribution alone.
Oh, and if I die, don't let grapefruitmoon take my cats. I hear her cat is a dick.
posted by misha at 9:09 PM on July 16, 2009
I'd like deceased profile information to remain as I don't see any compelling reason to remove it that couldn't also apply to the user's posting history.
I'm also glad to see people actually look at that page on the wiki, it thankfully hasn't been getting updated much though that is undoubtedly because people are dieing without being noticed.
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 PM on July 16, 2009
I'm also glad to see people actually look at that page on the wiki, it thankfully hasn't been getting updated much though that is undoubtedly because people are dieing without being noticed.
posted by Mitheral at 10:16 PM on July 16, 2009
Whn d, m cmmnts shld b dsmvwld.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:00 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:00 AM on July 17, 2009
I'd like a tasteful black border around my profile after I die.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:50 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:50 AM on July 17, 2009
Bury me at sea, where no flagged post or troll can haunt me,
If my profile reads 'deceased' then no mod can chide or ban me.
Favourite me, boys,
Favourite me, boys,
Let me lay down in the blue when my FPPs run dry.
posted by permafrost at 2:55 AM on July 17, 2009
If my profile reads 'deceased' then no mod can chide or ban me.
Favourite me, boys,
Favourite me, boys,
Let me lay down in the blue when my FPPs run dry.
posted by permafrost at 2:55 AM on July 17, 2009
Aw shucks misha.... thanks!
Brandon Blatcher's line about his epitaph was the inspiration. He'd put "This account has been closed" on his tombstone and then all the mefites would stop by his grave and take pictures of it for their twitter feeds and it'd be weird and sad and kind of cool... and ultimately a great memorial. Epitaphs are how we declare allegiances: you tell people where you think you're headed or what you'll miss. An injokey metafilter epitaph will happen someday, though probably not to BB. And it'll be awkward at first, but we'll decide we don't care, and then it'll be awesome. And then some local celebrity will die: your languagehat or your dios, and somebody'll break out the Auden 'cause they saw it once in that Hugh Grant film, and then it'll be just awkward again. Just you wait.
Chalk death up as one of the things we do well around here: we celebrate the passing, we memorialize the deceased, we help each other grieve. (Also, we dismember the body.) And that's proof that we're a real community, and it's why this place has lasted so long. (That, and the aforementioned dismemberment: we've never been caught!)
posted by anotherpanacea at 3:40 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher's line about his epitaph was the inspiration. He'd put "This account has been closed" on his tombstone and then all the mefites would stop by his grave and take pictures of it for their twitter feeds and it'd be weird and sad and kind of cool... and ultimately a great memorial. Epitaphs are how we declare allegiances: you tell people where you think you're headed or what you'll miss. An injokey metafilter epitaph will happen someday, though probably not to BB. And it'll be awkward at first, but we'll decide we don't care, and then it'll be awesome. And then some local celebrity will die: your languagehat or your dios, and somebody'll break out the Auden 'cause they saw it once in that Hugh Grant film, and then it'll be just awkward again. Just you wait.
Chalk death up as one of the things we do well around here: we celebrate the passing, we memorialize the deceased, we help each other grieve. (Also, we dismember the body.) And that's proof that we're a real community, and it's why this place has lasted so long. (That, and the aforementioned dismemberment: we've never been caught!)
posted by anotherpanacea at 3:40 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
My father passed, but his instant messenger account still exists, and so it comes in my buddy list as an offline contact*. We don't have the password to his account, so we can't disable it; of course I could pull it out of my buddy list, but I kind of like seeing it there.
I see Soulbee every time I log into gmail. She's there but her dot is just greyed out. But she's always there. Gosh I miss her a lot.
I think the info should be left up and a note about the user being deceased is in good order.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:43 AM on July 17, 2009
I see Soulbee every time I log into gmail. She's there but her dot is just greyed out. But she's always there. Gosh I miss her a lot.
I think the info should be left up and a note about the user being deceased is in good order.
posted by allkindsoftime at 4:43 AM on July 17, 2009
Now I have another task to add to the Someday list. I need to determine what I'd like done with all of my website memberships when I die and then add those directives, along with instructions for accessing my accounts, to my will.
But first, I need to write a will.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:51 AM on July 17, 2009
But first, I need to write a will.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:51 AM on July 17, 2009
All I ask is that after I die, if anyone clicks on my location, it shows me as being at the same place that they are.
That way everyone is reminded that I am haunting their sorry asses.
posted by quin at 7:44 AM on July 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
That way everyone is reminded that I am haunting their sorry asses.
posted by quin at 7:44 AM on July 17, 2009 [4 favorites]
When I go, put twenty dollars in my pocket so my friends' will know I died standing pat.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:57 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by octobersurprise at 7:57 AM on July 17, 2009
I hate ... dead ... profiles and I cannot lie
You motherlovers, don't you die
When I click on in to that itty bitty place
With a picture of your face
Your swan's sung; Matt has pulled your stuff
Now I gotta admit I'm chuffed
I yell with a bit of swearing
Printed it out, I'm tearing
(and so on)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:07 AM on July 17, 2009
You motherlovers, don't you die
When I click on in to that itty bitty place
With a picture of your face
Your swan's sung; Matt has pulled your stuff
Now I gotta admit I'm chuffed
I yell with a bit of swearing
Printed it out, I'm tearing
(and so on)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:07 AM on July 17, 2009
I have an envelope in my safe deposit box that I update with a bunch of passwords. That letter is left, in my will, to a friend I can trust to go online and clean up my affairs, including mailing people that I have, in fact, derezzed, and please close my account, I won't be needing it where I'm going. In return, he gets my porn.
Well, he was getting it before. He's the one who's supposed to go into my home when I die and make sure the porn is out and the laundry is in the hamper and the dishes are in the dishwasher.
He's also responsible for the disposition of my computers.
(The note ends with,
"And if you screw this up, I will find a way to come back from the dead and smack you. And you know if anyone would, it would be me.")
posted by mephron at 10:00 AM on July 17, 2009
Well, he was getting it before. He's the one who's supposed to go into my home when I die and make sure the porn is out and the laundry is in the hamper and the dishes are in the dishwasher.
He's also responsible for the disposition of my computers.
(The note ends with,
"And if you screw this up, I will find a way to come back from the dead and smack you. And you know if anyone would, it would be me.")
posted by mephron at 10:00 AM on July 17, 2009
Well, I don't really worry about this, but I do wonder just how big of a goober one would look like in that type of situation.
I think I might enjoy that actually. I'd get to read nice things people were saying about me, and fortunately people who didn't like me wouldn't want to be too harsh and upset those who might be bothered by my supposed demise. And then I'd get to stroll into the thread and announce that the reports of my death had been greatly exaggerated, and make everyone feel good again. Presumably if I did die after that people would refuse to be taken in by it and slam me, but at least I wouldn't be around to read that thread.
posted by orange swan at 10:39 AM on July 17, 2009
I think I might enjoy that actually. I'd get to read nice things people were saying about me, and fortunately people who didn't like me wouldn't want to be too harsh and upset those who might be bothered by my supposed demise. And then I'd get to stroll into the thread and announce that the reports of my death had been greatly exaggerated, and make everyone feel good again. Presumably if I did die after that people would refuse to be taken in by it and slam me, but at least I wouldn't be around to read that thread.
posted by orange swan at 10:39 AM on July 17, 2009
cortex: We've been talking about this on email throughout the day, weighing the pros and cons of making an implementation change vs. not and how it might work if we did. At this point we've had a couple ideas, but we're still sort of batting it around.
I've unfortunately been in the role of having to make such plans. This is what we came up with:
1. Disable the account in the normal way.
2. Use a collective obit page. If available, post the specific obit there.
3. Link the disabled account page to the obit.
4. Inform the family.
Reasoning:
- No way of knowing what's going to be on the account page at the time of user's passing.
- Having a completely separate obit page makes dealing with future site transitions easier. No risk of mucking something up.
- User's family may not have known about our community's part in online life, and this may not be the time for surprises. (And in MeFi's case, information will still be available at request.)
- Account pages are not gravestones. There only needs to be one of those, and it's not on the Internet.
BTW, to those of you who want MeFi to 'do something' for you in memoriam, that is a matter to be put in your will. Don't make people have to dig through MeTa in case you left a comment about that somewhere. :p
posted by zennie at 11:36 AM on July 17, 2009
I've unfortunately been in the role of having to make such plans. This is what we came up with:
1. Disable the account in the normal way.
2. Use a collective obit page. If available, post the specific obit there.
3. Link the disabled account page to the obit.
4. Inform the family.
Reasoning:
- No way of knowing what's going to be on the account page at the time of user's passing.
- Having a completely separate obit page makes dealing with future site transitions easier. No risk of mucking something up.
- User's family may not have known about our community's part in online life, and this may not be the time for surprises. (And in MeFi's case, information will still be available at request.)
- Account pages are not gravestones. There only needs to be one of those, and it's not on the Internet.
BTW, to those of you who want MeFi to 'do something' for you in memoriam, that is a matter to be put in your will. Don't make people have to dig through MeTa in case you left a comment about that somewhere. :p
posted by zennie at 11:36 AM on July 17, 2009
Here's another datapoint for you: choices to retain data after death may be illegal in Canada right now, and possibly in Europe in the future: Facebook has recently been found to be in violation of our privacy laws. The third finding is relevant:
posted by bonehead at 11:56 AM on July 17, 2009
Facebook keeps the profiles of deceased users for "memorial purposes" but does not make this clear. Recommendation: Information about use for memorial purposes should be in Facebook's privacy policy.It's not a hugely difficult policy to implement, more about notification than anything else. The full report can be found here.
posted by bonehead at 11:56 AM on July 17, 2009
He's the one who's supposed to go into my home when I die and make sure the porn is out and the laundry is in the hamper and the dishes are in the dishwasher.
My ex and I did this for our friend after he died - we figured he wouldn't want his mom to find his porn (lot's of porn!) and bong and assorted crap. As it turns out, his mom was pretty pissed that we'd gone in and moved things around - I guess it was important for her to see the apartment as he had left it that day.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2009
My ex and I did this for our friend after he died - we figured he wouldn't want his mom to find his porn (lot's of porn!) and bong and assorted crap. As it turns out, his mom was pretty pissed that we'd gone in and moved things around - I guess it was important for her to see the apartment as he had left it that day.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2009
Lot's is too a word!
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2009
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posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:23 AM on July 16, 2009