Announcing the Metafilter Short Fiction Anthology! January 7, 2008 5:41 AM Subscribe
Announcing the Metafilter Short Fiction Anthology! Previously suggested by Effigy2000, the Metafilter Short Fiction Anthology is a chance for all us writer-type or vaguely-writer-type Mefites to get together and write write write! We'll be taking a "Thieves' World" approach to our writing with each story in the Anthology taking place in a setting first posited by Mefi's Own L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg and then fleshed out by himself and members of the Mefi community. All who are interested are encouraged to join in!
Setting-wise, the links above (initial idea; link to setting wiki) should be enough to get you started. If you have any questions, I'm sure a bunch of us would be happy to answer them here in thread. Don't worry about being a slave to the setting, though. As we're working with a setting in which reality itself can be fluid, I'm sure nobody would mind if a few details flux from story to story.
Time-wise, I'm hoping to have the stories written and submitted by the end of February. That gives us almost seven weeks to get our mindgrapes pressed out and on the page (me, I'm hoping to write my story on my XO and Lord knows when that'll ever show up).
Length-wise, aim for standard shorty story length. Poe wrote that a shorty story is one that could be read in a single sitting, but if you need a word-count cap, no more than 7,500 words, please. There's no minimum length, so "For Sale: One Child's P/Virt Machine. Never Used." would count just fine.
Once the stories are in, we'll start an editing process. Most of my editorial experience comes from editing RPGs and other nerdly stuffs, so would welcome any help on that front. I also hope to make a pass at some continuity editing to help meld minor details (Who is president? What's the name of the best selling Honda? and so on) together. Either drop me a line if you want to work on the final product or comment in this thread if you'd like to help out our writers as they get their stuff together. I'm sure people would love to have their drafts read as the end of February approaches.
When you're finished with your draft, please email it to me as an attachment. I've set up an email address: mefi.fiction.anthology@gmail.com. Most formats should be fine, but simpler is always better. I'll then distribute stories to interested editor types. I'll keep track of each story's progress through the process, so if you have any questions, feel free to hit me up!
Once the editing process is complete, we hope to self-publish online, likely with some print on demand jobber so that interested Mefites could pick up a copy at their leisure. More details on the how and what of this stage are, of course, still pending.
Finally, a big thanks to Lore and Effigy and the rest of the gang for all their work so far in the previous thread and on the setting wiki!
Setting-wise, the links above (initial idea; link to setting wiki) should be enough to get you started. If you have any questions, I'm sure a bunch of us would be happy to answer them here in thread. Don't worry about being a slave to the setting, though. As we're working with a setting in which reality itself can be fluid, I'm sure nobody would mind if a few details flux from story to story.
Time-wise, I'm hoping to have the stories written and submitted by the end of February. That gives us almost seven weeks to get our mindgrapes pressed out and on the page (me, I'm hoping to write my story on my XO and Lord knows when that'll ever show up).
Length-wise, aim for standard shorty story length. Poe wrote that a shorty story is one that could be read in a single sitting, but if you need a word-count cap, no more than 7,500 words, please. There's no minimum length, so "For Sale: One Child's P/Virt Machine. Never Used." would count just fine.
Once the stories are in, we'll start an editing process. Most of my editorial experience comes from editing RPGs and other nerdly stuffs, so would welcome any help on that front. I also hope to make a pass at some continuity editing to help meld minor details (Who is president? What's the name of the best selling Honda? and so on) together. Either drop me a line if you want to work on the final product or comment in this thread if you'd like to help out our writers as they get their stuff together. I'm sure people would love to have their drafts read as the end of February approaches.
When you're finished with your draft, please email it to me as an attachment. I've set up an email address: mefi.fiction.anthology@gmail.com. Most formats should be fine, but simpler is always better. I'll then distribute stories to interested editor types. I'll keep track of each story's progress through the process, so if you have any questions, feel free to hit me up!
Once the editing process is complete, we hope to self-publish online, likely with some print on demand jobber so that interested Mefites could pick up a copy at their leisure. More details on the how and what of this stage are, of course, still pending.
Finally, a big thanks to Lore and Effigy and the rest of the gang for all their work so far in the previous thread and on the setting wiki!
Metafilter Short Fiction Anthology is a chance for all us writer-type or vaguely-writer-type Mefites to get together and write write write!
Not technically true, of course. While I like and approve of this idea (not that my approval particularly matters, but you know what I mean), it does exclude those writer-types who aren't interested in writing (or able to write) something set in a science-fiction-y world of someone else's devising.
posted by dersins at 6:11 AM on January 7, 2008 [4 favorites]
Not technically true, of course. While I like and approve of this idea (not that my approval particularly matters, but you know what I mean), it does exclude those writer-types who aren't interested in writing (or able to write) something set in a science-fiction-y world of someone else's devising.
posted by dersins at 6:11 AM on January 7, 2008 [4 favorites]
I like the concept. This will actually get me to give reading science-fiction(y) another chance. I'd love to join in and try my hand at it if this one's a success and we try another genre next time. And really, this is pretty damn cool and I'm real interested in seeing the results.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 6:20 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 6:20 AM on January 7, 2008
dersins, nobody wants to write period era erotica fiction about Abraham Lincoln. LET IT GO.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on January 7, 2008 [12 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on January 7, 2008 [12 favorites]
robocop is bleeding: "There's no minimum length, so "For Sale: One Child's P/Virt Machine. Never Used." would count just fine."
New pony: The ability to favorite individual sentences.
posted by Plutor at 6:25 AM on January 7, 2008
New pony: The ability to favorite individual sentences.
posted by Plutor at 6:25 AM on January 7, 2008
Ooooh, fun! I have a question, though, robocop:
From your no-minimum length comment, can I conclude that poetry is fair game?
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:26 AM on January 7, 2008
From your no-minimum length comment, can I conclude that poetry is fair game?
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:26 AM on January 7, 2008
I dunno... With the P/Virt setting, a lot of other stories open up if you deal with characters exclusively under the influence of a P/Virt Machine.
I flipped the switch on and felt the warm tingle of a new reality, my perfect reality, wash over me. When I opened my eyes, Abe was standing there before me, his body taut and slick from a hard day's governing. His eyes twinkled and his beard hid his sultry smile as he came towards me, teasing off his black coat and restrictive clothing.
"I have a rail that needs to be split," he purred in sonorous tones, "Mind if I split your Union?"
No need to thank me! Your nightmares are on the house!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:29 AM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
I flipped the switch on and felt the warm tingle of a new reality, my perfect reality, wash over me. When I opened my eyes, Abe was standing there before me, his body taut and slick from a hard day's governing. His eyes twinkled and his beard hid his sultry smile as he came towards me, teasing off his black coat and restrictive clothing.
"I have a rail that needs to be split," he purred in sonorous tones, "Mind if I split your Union?"
No need to thank me! Your nightmares are on the house!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:29 AM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
I have no problem with poetry (and was even pondering a Kubla Khan type poem before I opted for a different tack), so I say go for it!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:31 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:31 AM on January 7, 2008
period era erotica fiction
Your phrase of words you wrote there in that place is amusingly funny!
posted by dersins at 6:34 AM on January 7, 2008
Your phrase of words you wrote there in that place is amusingly funny!
posted by dersins at 6:34 AM on January 7, 2008
woo to the MFing oot.
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:35 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:35 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
his body taut and slick from a hard day's governing
Oh god, the tea came out the nose!
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:45 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh god, the tea came out the nose!
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:45 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm out - I can't even understand the premise for the stories.
posted by oh pollo! at 6:53 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by oh pollo! at 6:53 AM on January 7, 2008
No need to thank me! Your nightmares are on the house!
Thank you very much - I managed to spit coffee on the floor rather than the laptop.
I managed to spend my whole Christmas week off not thinking about this anthology, so my procrastination skilz are beautifully honed. I'll start writing any minute now. Really.
posted by rtha at 7:01 AM on January 7, 2008
Thank you very much - I managed to spit coffee on the floor rather than the laptop.
I managed to spend my whole Christmas week off not thinking about this anthology, so my procrastination skilz are beautifully honed. I'll start writing any minute now. Really.
posted by rtha at 7:01 AM on January 7, 2008
I'm available for critiquing and feedback if anyone would welcome it. I have literary magazine experience from college, taken part in numerous creative workshop classes, and I come with my very own English degree. Use me up. I'm yours.
posted by cowbellemoo at 7:08 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by cowbellemoo at 7:08 AM on January 7, 2008
I am going to start writing as soon as I finsh this round of MetaFilter: The Game.
posted by Mister_A at 7:14 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 7:14 AM on January 7, 2008
I've actually been working on mine for about two weeks now. So far it really sucks; but then, I've never been able to write particularly clever dialog, and getting the tone for strung-out alien hookers is really difficult.
I'd also be more than happy to help with continuity, but be forewarned, most of my editorial experience comes from trying to censor the voices in my head, and we all know that has never worked out all that well.
posted by quin at 7:18 AM on January 7, 2008
I'd also be more than happy to help with continuity, but be forewarned, most of my editorial experience comes from trying to censor the voices in my head, and we all know that has never worked out all that well.
posted by quin at 7:18 AM on January 7, 2008
Is there any sort of summary of the setting? I have difficulty finding what I am looking for on the wiki.
posted by Mister_A at 7:19 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 7:19 AM on January 7, 2008
"Abraham Freakin'"
Publicly he freed the slaves, but privately, his Presidential organ quivered at the thought of bondage.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Publicly he freed the slaves, but privately, his Presidential organ quivered at the thought of bondage.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:19 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mister_A typed "MetaFilter: The Game"
I just lost.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:22 AM on January 7, 2008
I just lost.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:22 AM on January 7, 2008
Whoops, looks like I messed up the link to the wiki in the "link to setting wiki" link. This one should work.
Is there any sort of summary of the setting?
The best intro to the setting, I think, is Lore's initial pitch. The rest of the stuff gets down to a much more detailed level and could be confusing. I'll try and add an intro page to the wiki for future reference.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:26 AM on January 7, 2008
Is there any sort of summary of the setting?
The best intro to the setting, I think, is Lore's initial pitch. The rest of the stuff gets down to a much more detailed level and could be confusing. I'll try and add an intro page to the wiki for future reference.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:26 AM on January 7, 2008
It might be nice to work out a basic TOC on the main page of the wiki.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on January 7, 2008
Ditto that. But it seems Lore still has the wiki locked down. Please hope us!
cortex, you've done more on the wiki in regards to setting than I, would you like to do a quick "Introduction to the P/Virse" bit?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:44 AM on January 7, 2008
cortex, you've done more on the wiki in regards to setting than I, would you like to do a quick "Introduction to the P/Virse" bit?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:44 AM on January 7, 2008
The Gettysburg Undress?
posted by horsemuth at 7:51 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by horsemuth at 7:51 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm kind of zonked this morning, honestly, but it's a good idea. If someone else doesn't get around to it, I don't mind, but I need to catch up on the details of Lore's changes since the last time I had my teeth in it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:53 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:53 AM on January 7, 2008
Would black & white comics be acceptable as a format? Or is that throwing too big a monkeywrench in the works? I'll understand if that would be the case.
posted by picea at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by picea at 8:02 AM on January 7, 2008
I don't have any problems with comics in theory - in execution there may be an issue, but we can tackle that when we come to it. If I can plug it into a pdf, then I suspect most on demand publishers would take it, no problem.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2008
This is cool; looking forward to trying to write something for it. I need to catch up on the setting.
On a side note, I now have a great idea for a sockpuppet name: never used P/Virt machine.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2008
On a side note, I now have a great idea for a sockpuppet name: never used P/Virt machine.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:10 AM on January 7, 2008
I'm going to write about a cabal of furries who all dress as cats.
The purr/Virts, as it were.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:18 AM on January 7, 2008 [3 favorites]
The purr/Virts, as it were.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:18 AM on January 7, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'll try to write something for this, but IMO the setting isn't that great. IMO setting would be something like time and place, instead what we have is a set of metaphysics.
Oh well, I'll try to come up with something. When are the submissions "due"?
posted by delmoi at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2008
Oh well, I'll try to come up with something. When are the submissions "due"?
posted by delmoi at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2008
robocop, it shouldn't be a problem for such printers, as many have probably dealt with indie comic peoples self-publishing through them. Anyone creating comics for the anthology would need to know the size of the book and an image resolution at which to save their files.
posted by picea at 8:26 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by picea at 8:26 AM on January 7, 2008
I'll write an introduction.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 8:28 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 8:28 AM on January 7, 2008
Cool, thanks Lore!
picea - Hrm, okay. Hopefully whomever we try and publish through will be okay with pictures. If you have any recommendations, please feel free to share'm.
delmoi - End of February.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2008
picea - Hrm, okay. Hopefully whomever we try and publish through will be okay with pictures. If you have any recommendations, please feel free to share'm.
delmoi - End of February.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:40 AM on January 7, 2008
Okay, the introduction is up. Please let me know if it's clear enough to provide an entry into the setting.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 8:46 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think the wiki is a mistake - you're worldbuilding. However I look forward to reading the results.
posted by oh pollo! at 9:00 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by oh pollo! at 9:00 AM on January 7, 2008
I'm pretty much feeling equal parts flimshaw and bosh, oh pollo! I'm not big on the idea of an epic 1000-page P/Virse bible, per se, but we're talking about establishing a few landmarks in a shared premise, here.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 7, 2008
In other words, it's more like worldveryverylightlysketching.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:05 AM on January 7, 2008
oh pollo!, the premise is that certain people can alter reality (to varying degrees), while others can not. However, those who do not have the ability, if they view an altered aspect of reality, it immediately "collapses" or reverts to what we view as reality. So those who do have the ability tend to hide from those who don't, since the don'ts can destroy their made up reality.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:13 AM on January 7, 2008
The the of the anthology is "Help, I'm stuck in a Virtual Reality prison"?
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by Artw at 9:15 AM on January 7, 2008
Can I encourage and applaud this project and still tenderly knock the particulars?
The P/Virt premise seems very specific and, for me, specifically infertile. When I think about writing anything for this I feel tired and painted into an annoying corner before I even get going. I hope and believe that good stuff will come of this project, and I look forward to reading it. It seems, though, that the only way I can approach the premise is to ignore it, and if I am ignoring the parameters then, really, I am not a part of it. So, better luck next time for me, I guess.
posted by dirtdirt at 9:20 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
The P/Virt premise seems very specific and, for me, specifically infertile. When I think about writing anything for this I feel tired and painted into an annoying corner before I even get going. I hope and believe that good stuff will come of this project, and I look forward to reading it. It seems, though, that the only way I can approach the premise is to ignore it, and if I am ignoring the parameters then, really, I am not a part of it. So, better luck next time for me, I guess.
posted by dirtdirt at 9:20 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
However, those who do not have the ability, if they view an altered aspect of reality, it immediately "collapses" or reverts to what we view as reality. So those who do have the ability tend to hide from those who don't, since the don'ts can destroy their made up reality.
So, the PVirt people are like players of Second Life? And the non-Pvirts are their abandoned spouses?
posted by vacapinta at 9:28 AM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
So, the PVirt people are like players of Second Life? And the non-Pvirts are their abandoned spouses?
posted by vacapinta at 9:28 AM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
It seems, though, that the only way I can approach the premise is to ignore it, and if I am ignoring the parameters then, really, I am not a part of it.
Well—and I think I said something like this in the original thread a month or so back—there's the very real option of not ignoring but sidelining the premise. Write a story where the P/Virse is a MacGuffin, or less than that even: window dressing. A point of conversation. A thing a friend of a friend is into. Etc.
There's a whole world out there.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well—and I think I said something like this in the original thread a month or so back—there's the very real option of not ignoring but sidelining the premise. Write a story where the P/Virse is a MacGuffin, or less than that even: window dressing. A point of conversation. A thing a friend of a friend is into. Etc.
There's a whole world out there.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:31 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yo Sjo fess up: the P/Virse is a PeacefulPhysicalPedia innit.
Where 'edit wars' == 'largely unconscious process(es) of consensus where those with stronger feelings or more vivid imaginations have more sway'.
posted by sushiwiththejury at 9:55 AM on January 7, 2008
Where 'edit wars' == 'largely unconscious process(es) of consensus where those with stronger feelings or more vivid imaginations have more sway'.
posted by sushiwiththejury at 9:55 AM on January 7, 2008
I think the wiki is a mistake - you're worldbuilding.
Actually I think this is one of the strengths of this project. Normally its very difficult to write a short story with a complicated sci-fi premise, because most of the short story would need to go into explaining the premise rather than crafting characters and whatnot. When the short story is part of an anthology like this though, I could use the complicated sci-fi premise without diving into the explaination.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:08 AM on January 7, 2008
Actually I think this is one of the strengths of this project. Normally its very difficult to write a short story with a complicated sci-fi premise, because most of the short story would need to go into explaining the premise rather than crafting characters and whatnot. When the short story is part of an anthology like this though, I could use the complicated sci-fi premise without diving into the explaination.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:08 AM on January 7, 2008
If I choose to sideline the premise or whatever, does that mean I can create my own story's metaphysics? Is it a requirement that the P/Virse be name-dropped at some point? Would it be possible to write magical realism in this universe without readers assuming it's just the result of some P/virsion?
posted by shakespeherian at 10:09 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by shakespeherian at 10:09 AM on January 7, 2008
I think the intent for the anthology-style project as robocop is bleeding has presented it is to have the official setting be the world as it is, plus a few years and this one bit of premise.
So directly introducing unrelated metaphysical elements without explanation is probably straying a bit for from that, at least for the purposes of the anthology, in as much as it'll clash with the otherwise (hopefully) consistent world.
But then, depending on how you swing it it might work fine anyway. And there's no harm in just plain writing it, regardless.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2008
So directly introducing unrelated metaphysical elements without explanation is probably straying a bit for from that, at least for the purposes of the anthology, in as much as it'll clash with the otherwise (hopefully) consistent world.
But then, depending on how you swing it it might work fine anyway. And there's no harm in just plain writing it, regardless.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:16 AM on January 7, 2008
I still think that the premise is way too specific, and I worry that it's going to dramatically reduce the number of submissions - but I've just thought of a fairly amusing historical/literary gag that's perfect for it, so I'll not complain too hard :-)
Now I've just got to figure out how to work it in to the alien hooker plotline.
posted by flashboy at 10:34 AM on January 7, 2008
Now I've just got to figure out how to work it in to the alien hooker plotline.
posted by flashboy at 10:34 AM on January 7, 2008
I'm mostly trying to figure out where between Let's make a very structured anthology and Here's a notion to help every writer on MetaFilter contribute so let's all write weeeeeee this idea lies. dirtdirt's comment is close to how I feel about it, but cortex's reply makes it sound like the idea is to get everyone to play along.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:34 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by shakespeherian at 10:34 AM on January 7, 2008
but I've just thought of a fairly amusing historical/literary gag
Yeah, but does it make a good story?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2008
Yeah, but does it make a good story?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:08 AM on January 7, 2008
To those who don't like the particulars of the 'setting,' I suggest you plan to, as I will, dismiss the clunky vocabulary and cruft of the 'hard sf' explaination and approach the project as involving an extreme dichotomy of fantasy vs. reality. I think it's possible to have characters move within the anthology's metaphysics without acknowledging or focusing on the details/machinery/vocabulary/implications/strangeness of it. Like cortex said, use it as much or as little as you like, but do use it to keep a commonality between the stories.
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:27 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:27 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah, just because there's a bit of prior information organized for you to use doesn't mean you have to. Think of Bradbury's All Summer in a Day, where there was a wealth of existing information on the nature of Venus that he left on the sideline in order to write a story about schoolyard cruelty.
posted by shmegegge at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2008
posted by shmegegge at 11:36 AM on January 7, 2008
I think we're about halfway between those two datapoints, shakespeherian. I can see where folks who are put off by the setting are coming from (if you go back to the initial thread, you can see my reservations), but I think the P/Virt setting is a nice compromise between those that want a set, shared setting, and those who just want to write whatever. The setting is share, but fluid - we're not going to sweat small details or anything ("Hey in my story I said Crest Toothpaste was a powerful acid! In yours you have characters brushing their teeth with it!").
Cortex is right that one can, in theory, write whatever story they want in the P/Virt setting. If the author doesn't want to get into the device, then they don't have to. If they don't want to mention the device at all and just write a story set in the "real world" then they can do that. If they want to write an epic space opera or a Conan story and don't mind that the reader will assume that the characters (maybe all, maybe some) are people playing roles or entirely imaginary, then that's fine too.
I know that the setting selection may cause people to opt out from contributing. I hope that they at least churn the idea over in their heads a few times, but hey, if nothing comes out, so be it. From the initial thread, we seemed to have more people interested in the setting (or on the fence) than not, so my personal hope is that these folks write some stuff, share some stuff, and get others interested in joining in for a possible next Mefiology go around (which I'm thinking should be a genre, like MEFIOLOGY NOIR: The Poster Always Snarks Twice or something, but who knows?).
When it comes to writing projects like this, I know no one universal theme, setting, MacGuffin, genre, or mood will excite everyone. It would be way, way too much herding cats to get everyone to agree on a single topic - by the time we did it, everyone would be so sick of it that nobody would want to write! My only hope is that everyone who is interested dips their ink in the well and writes something so that we can show that it can be done, so that next time we have a few more people writing and the next a few more again.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2008
Cortex is right that one can, in theory, write whatever story they want in the P/Virt setting. If the author doesn't want to get into the device, then they don't have to. If they don't want to mention the device at all and just write a story set in the "real world" then they can do that. If they want to write an epic space opera or a Conan story and don't mind that the reader will assume that the characters (maybe all, maybe some) are people playing roles or entirely imaginary, then that's fine too.
I know that the setting selection may cause people to opt out from contributing. I hope that they at least churn the idea over in their heads a few times, but hey, if nothing comes out, so be it. From the initial thread, we seemed to have more people interested in the setting (or on the fence) than not, so my personal hope is that these folks write some stuff, share some stuff, and get others interested in joining in for a possible next Mefiology go around (which I'm thinking should be a genre, like MEFIOLOGY NOIR: The Poster Always Snarks Twice or something, but who knows?).
When it comes to writing projects like this, I know no one universal theme, setting, MacGuffin, genre, or mood will excite everyone. It would be way, way too much herding cats to get everyone to agree on a single topic - by the time we did it, everyone would be so sick of it that nobody would want to write! My only hope is that everyone who is interested dips their ink in the well and writes something so that we can show that it can be done, so that next time we have a few more people writing and the next a few more again.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:43 AM on January 7, 2008
Okay, so instead of trying to be all discrete and secretive and then writing something that you guys hate, I'm just going to say my idea-- or, the part of my idea that might be problematic.
P/Virt doesn't actually work as officially described at all. All of the buzz about it (including, presumably, the other stories in the anthology) is a fiction, created either by P/Virt's advertisers or by P/Virt's users' need to hide what they really do with it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:55 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
P/Virt doesn't actually work as officially described at all. All of the buzz about it (including, presumably, the other stories in the anthology) is a fiction, created either by P/Virt's advertisers or by P/Virt's users' need to hide what they really do with it.
posted by roll truck roll at 11:55 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
That sounds interesting to me, roll truck roll - I guess as long as it's still in question at the end, so as not to short circuit other stories.
My only hope is that everyone who is interested dips their ink in the well and writes something so that we can show that it can be done
I'm very interested - am I emailing somebody to put my name down or should I start writing and then send by the deadline?
posted by cashman at 11:59 AM on January 7, 2008
My only hope is that everyone who is interested dips their ink in the well and writes something so that we can show that it can be done
I'm very interested - am I emailing somebody to put my name down or should I start writing and then send by the deadline?
posted by cashman at 11:59 AM on January 7, 2008
This might be fun. Of course I'm a hard sf whore so I'm a bit biased. I'm reminded of Inversions. If you've never heard of the Culture, it's just a slightly peculiar tragedy. If you've got Gravitas, What Gravitas? tattooed on your forehead, it's an entirely different book.
posted by Skorgu at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by Skorgu at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2008
I think roll truck roll's idea would fit in just fine as long as it's a sporting critique of willful fantasy/commercialization/whatever and not an attempt at actually undermining the impact of other stories. There's unlimited potential to pull it off gracefully, given the nature of 'reality' here. (lack of grace might trigger robocop's editorial subroutines, though...PROTECT THE INNOCENT...and whatnot)
posted by cowbellemoo at 12:49 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by cowbellemoo at 12:49 PM on January 7, 2008
P/Virt doesn't actually work as officially described at all. All of the buzz about it (including, presumably, the other stories in the anthology) is a fiction, created either by P/Virt's advertisers or by P/Virt's users' need to hide what they really do with it.
Hell yes. Run it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:50 PM on January 7, 2008
Hell yes. Run it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:50 PM on January 7, 2008
So what - the other P/Virt stories are just viral marketing? Ha! I like it. Go for it. 'Cause MY "story" is about how I sue yer ass fer defamation...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:53 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:53 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Conversely (or I suppose similarly if one was clever enough) to roll truck roll's premise, in the piece I'm working on, P/Virt "fielding" (for lack of a better verb) was not all that well received by the public because of the massive publicity that surrounded it; while it does work, only a small fraction of the population can actually use it, and the critics found a lot to make fun of in light of the hype.
It's not essential to my story, but I liked the Segway parallels.
posted by quin at 12:54 PM on January 7, 2008
It's not essential to my story, but I liked the Segway parallels.
posted by quin at 12:54 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm interested, so I second Cashman's question. There a list that needs joining, or just write and have something in by deadline?
posted by Atreides at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by Atreides at 1:07 PM on January 7, 2008
In the piece I'M working on, I am a viking.
posted by Mister_A at 1:13 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 1:13 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm interested, so I second Cashman's question. There a list that needs joining, or just write and have something in by deadline?
I don't think there's a list now, but it might make sense to have one. Especially if robocop is bleeding sends everyone an email in late January shaming those of us who have procrastinated about getting started on it.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:26 PM on January 7, 2008
I don't think there's a list now, but it might make sense to have one. Especially if robocop is bleeding sends everyone an email in late January shaming those of us who have procrastinated about getting started on it.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:26 PM on January 7, 2008
In the piece I'M working on, I am a viking.
From the Wiki: I'm naming my story "The P/Virse is Where I'm a Phi King." --It's Raining Florence Henderson 12:55, 18 December 2007 (PST)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:28 PM on January 7, 2008
From the Wiki: I'm naming my story "The P/Virse is Where I'm a Phi King." --It's Raining Florence Henderson 12:55, 18 December 2007 (PST)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:28 PM on January 7, 2008
Oof! Once again you beat me to the punch, and by more'n a fortnight, Flo. Well met.
posted by Mister_A at 1:33 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 1:33 PM on January 7, 2008
If there's a list, put me on it.
...If there's no list, put me on that.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2008
...If there's no list, put me on that.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:47 PM on January 7, 2008
This is a fantastic idea, and I'd love to do fact/continuity checks. My job entails a lot of technical writing, which isn't so good for fiction, but I tend to be good at spotting inconsistencies.
posted by gemmy at 2:20 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by gemmy at 2:20 PM on January 7, 2008
Can I be Picard in this episode?
posted by blue_beetle at 2:33 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by blue_beetle at 2:33 PM on January 7, 2008
Top or bottom?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:34 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:34 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm going to try in. I notice the P/verse is very P/vny. (Think Latin.)
posted by absalom at 3:10 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by absalom at 3:10 PM on January 7, 2008
it does exclude those writer-types who aren't interested in writing (or able to write) something set in a science-fiction-y world of someone else's devising.
...for free.
When you cut right down to the bone, this is amateur hour. Worse, it's science fiction amateur hour. I am not trying to deride the participants who may enjoy the process or the readers who may enjoy the results -- anything that turns your cranks is aces in my book -- but as a writer I have better markets, and as a reader, there is an near-infinite array of work available to me that is probably better worth my time.
So, again, more power to you all and I hope it's a positive experience, but it isn't totally inclusive.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 3:14 PM on January 7, 2008
...for free.
When you cut right down to the bone, this is amateur hour. Worse, it's science fiction amateur hour. I am not trying to deride the participants who may enjoy the process or the readers who may enjoy the results -- anything that turns your cranks is aces in my book -- but as a writer I have better markets, and as a reader, there is an near-infinite array of work available to me that is probably better worth my time.
So, again, more power to you all and I hope it's a positive experience, but it isn't totally inclusive.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 3:14 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm not sure we're using the same version of inclusive.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:15 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:15 PM on January 7, 2008
Also, I have some pretty nuts and bolts questions to ask before I put labor into this, and have nowhere to direct them and a deadline. That's a pretty unpleasant situation.
posted by absalom at 3:16 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by absalom at 3:16 PM on January 7, 2008
ten pounds of inedita: True, but you're also not really that frequent a contributor, so I can see the reaction. I'm not really sure the discussion of finances has come up before, because I don't think the motive is profit, but just collaborate because team-play is fun.
Also, if anyone outside of Metafilter actually buys this book, I will eat a copy of it on youtube.
posted by absalom at 3:20 PM on January 7, 2008
Also, if anyone outside of Metafilter actually buys this book, I will eat a copy of it on youtube.
posted by absalom at 3:20 PM on January 7, 2008
Oh man. My Mom is so buying a copy, then.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:25 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:25 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wow. I just checked in with the wiki, and Lore changed a bunch of stuff and then shut the door. I feel like a n00b perceptive after a hard smear.
Most of it makes sense, though, so long as we assume two things: if entering an autocausality field turns our bodies into vegetables, then there had better be a lag time between entering and losing yourself to the P/Virse, or no one can ever enter once it's started up without leaving a pile of bodies at the doorway. This would be the entry version of a slow smear. Also, and more importantly - in order to allow individual characters to leave autocausality fields at different times, we must assume that sensitives can generally re-assert enough control over their left-behind bodies to exit the autocausality field at will. Otherwise, everybody has to show up at the same time and leave at the same time, unless perceptives have been employed to move bodies around. Although it might be interesting to allow that some have more control than others, and n00bs occasionally don't make it past the doorway, such that experienced sensitives get tired of "tripping over n00bs," and similarly, n00bs may tend to have issues with remembering to check in on their bodies often enough to provide for adequate hygiene, providing for additional complaints about "smelling like a n00b." Anyway - yeah, upshot is: let's assume that sensitives don't just fall over the instant they encounter an autocausality field, and let's assume they aren't trapped there until the timer goes off or someone collapses the field. Otherwise, the potential stories will become too limited.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:28 PM on January 7, 2008
Most of it makes sense, though, so long as we assume two things: if entering an autocausality field turns our bodies into vegetables, then there had better be a lag time between entering and losing yourself to the P/Virse, or no one can ever enter once it's started up without leaving a pile of bodies at the doorway. This would be the entry version of a slow smear. Also, and more importantly - in order to allow individual characters to leave autocausality fields at different times, we must assume that sensitives can generally re-assert enough control over their left-behind bodies to exit the autocausality field at will. Otherwise, everybody has to show up at the same time and leave at the same time, unless perceptives have been employed to move bodies around. Although it might be interesting to allow that some have more control than others, and n00bs occasionally don't make it past the doorway, such that experienced sensitives get tired of "tripping over n00bs," and similarly, n00bs may tend to have issues with remembering to check in on their bodies often enough to provide for adequate hygiene, providing for additional complaints about "smelling like a n00b." Anyway - yeah, upshot is: let's assume that sensitives don't just fall over the instant they encounter an autocausality field, and let's assume they aren't trapped there until the timer goes off or someone collapses the field. Otherwise, the potential stories will become too limited.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:28 PM on January 7, 2008
MetaFilter: as a writer I have better markets, and as a reader, there is an near-infinite array of work available to me that is probably better worth my time
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:30 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:30 PM on January 7, 2008
Well, see, Flo, MeFi is a conversation, not a publication, and I ain't being paid by anyone anywhere to converse.
As a follow-up: since this is a CC Remix-licensed project, anyone who thought that the core concept was good could write a P/Virt story and submit it for publication (for pay, I should hope) to a proper fiction market. I would encourage each of the participants in the project to do so.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 3:48 PM on January 7, 2008
As a follow-up: since this is a CC Remix-licensed project, anyone who thought that the core concept was good could write a P/Virt story and submit it for publication (for pay, I should hope) to a proper fiction market. I would encourage each of the participants in the project to do so.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 3:48 PM on January 7, 2008
I'd just like to drop a note and express interest in a future Mefi Anthology that simply has a theme (death, pancakes, plates of beans, whatever,) and no explicit genre or shared world. I read the settings Wiki on this, and I just don't get it. I understand the words; they just don't make inspirational sense to me.
posted by headspace at 3:55 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by headspace at 3:55 PM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to drop a note and express interest in a future Mefi Anthology that simply has a theme (death, pancakes, plates of beans, whatever,) and no explicit genre or shared world.
I would be infinitely more interested in that. Literally infinitely, since my interest in writing a science fiction story set in someone else's world is zero.
That wiki is starting to read like a guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any actual fans.
posted by dersins at 4:22 PM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
I would be infinitely more interested in that. Literally infinitely, since my interest in writing a science fiction story set in someone else's world is zero.
That wiki is starting to read like a guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any actual fans.
posted by dersins at 4:22 PM on January 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
I'm currently working on the first chapter of the collaborative single-story novel that we, The Nine, are working on. I've written a few hundered words at this point but still have a bit to go before I hand in the first chapter and pass the baton to WPW.
Once I'm done writing that I'll probably take a short break to gather my thoughts and write a short story based in the P/Virt setting.
Thanks for the update, robocop is bleeding!
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:36 PM on January 7, 2008
Once I'm done writing that I'll probably take a short break to gather my thoughts and write a short story based in the P/Virt setting.
Thanks for the update, robocop is bleeding!
posted by Effigy2000 at 4:36 PM on January 7, 2008
Yup, I'd be interested in writing for a more theme-centered anthology as well. Also, ping me if, even after all the volunteers, you still need editors for this round.
By the way, this project made me go reread Borges' Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius.
posted by whimwit at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2008
By the way, this project made me go reread Borges' Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius.
posted by whimwit at 4:41 PM on January 7, 2008
Hmm... it's still not quite popping for me. This is probably antithetical to the nature of the anthology, but I'd love to read the works of anyone who either finishes early or doesn't mind sharing their unfinished draft at some point.
posted by Eideteker at 4:47 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by Eideteker at 4:47 PM on January 7, 2008
Mine's a future noir murder mystery set at a P/Virse Boing Boing theme party, in which Xeni is inexplicably gored by a steampunk unicorn. Meanwhile, back in the P/On Virse, a strong perceptive and a wallflower collaborate to make worlds collide...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 7, 2008
not really
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:02 PM on January 7, 2008
I've received a few MeFi Mails about how one goes about starting - it's pretty easy, just start writing! If things progress to the point where you think you have a story, drop me a line so I know to expect it.
If you're interested in a future version of the Anthology, just drop me a mail with any ideas you might have for future themes/threads. This go around, we're following the consensus of the previous thread, so getting your two bits in early will hopefully help shape future efforts.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:07 PM on January 7, 2008
If you're interested in a future version of the Anthology, just drop me a mail with any ideas you might have for future themes/threads. This go around, we're following the consensus of the previous thread, so getting your two bits in early will hopefully help shape future efforts.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:07 PM on January 7, 2008
After reading the Wiki, I do have an idea for the project, but it's uninspired. The project at hand seems way too specific and imposed for me to feel like I have space to shake my stuff into. Should my idea develop wings after clunking around in my brainpan, I may submit something; but personally, I'm not excited enough by P/Virt right now. Echoing what headspace ^ said, I too would be interested in future MeFiWriter anthologies on other, broader themes.
I wish those of you who participate in this much luck and fun, and I'll be interested in reading the finished version.
posted by not_on_display at 5:09 PM on January 7, 2008
I wish those of you who participate in this much luck and fun, and I'll be interested in reading the finished version.
posted by not_on_display at 5:09 PM on January 7, 2008
Is there an index to that Wiki, or anything like that? Or do I have to do a depth first search on my own?
And, uh, P/Ball?
LOL.
posted by delmoi at 5:11 PM on January 7, 2008
And, uh, P/Ball?
LOL.
posted by delmoi at 5:11 PM on January 7, 2008
Okay - for the record: I have started mine. It really is a future noir murder mystery involving, among other things, a strong perceptive and a wallflower. And I really might call it The P/Virse is Where I'm a Phi King. The Boing Boing bit was just a lark.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:11 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:11 PM on January 7, 2008
Also, I have some pretty nuts and bolts questions to ask before I put labor into this, and have nowhere to direct them and a deadline. That's a pretty unpleasant situation.
Here is a good a place as any. But if you don't want to tip your hand, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:15 PM on January 7, 2008
Here is a good a place as any. But if you don't want to tip your hand, drop me a line and I'll see what I can do.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:15 PM on January 7, 2008
Think of a plot as a linear progression of plot points. As an author, you have to chose what possible branch from the previous plot point you'll take. You have to pick the one that makes sense and the one that will lead you to the promised land.
The more restrictions you have, the fewer branches your story can take, and the easier it is to write. In fact, the number of possible plots expands exponentially given the number of practical branches.
But the problem here is that with this fluid metaphysics, the branch ability is limitless. Your story can go in any direction at any time, and so the plot space becomes gigantic.
posted by delmoi at 6:26 PM on January 7, 2008
The more restrictions you have, the fewer branches your story can take, and the easier it is to write. In fact, the number of possible plots expands exponentially given the number of practical branches.
But the problem here is that with this fluid metaphysics, the branch ability is limitless. Your story can go in any direction at any time, and so the plot space becomes gigantic.
posted by delmoi at 6:26 PM on January 7, 2008
I don't get the complaints about how this topic is too narrow/too sci-fi/not inclusive enough.
One: If you don't like the theme, then you can post a new MetaTalk thread and start a new, different anthology.
Two: I have read maybe two dozen books in my entire life that could be classified as science fiction. It is waaaaaaay not my genre. But the premise Lore came up with is intriguing, and there are so many different directions I could take it that I might well be paralyzed by choice, and end up procrastinating myself right out of the anthology.
When you cut right down to the bone, this is amateur hour. Worse, it's science fiction amateur hour. I am not trying to deride the participants who may enjoy the process or the readers who may enjoy the results...
Well, you succeeded anyway, so congrats. What's your problem? You've got better things to go read and write - good. Go read and write them.
posted by rtha at 6:47 PM on January 7, 2008
One: If you don't like the theme, then you can post a new MetaTalk thread and start a new, different anthology.
Two: I have read maybe two dozen books in my entire life that could be classified as science fiction. It is waaaaaaay not my genre. But the premise Lore came up with is intriguing, and there are so many different directions I could take it that I might well be paralyzed by choice, and end up procrastinating myself right out of the anthology.
When you cut right down to the bone, this is amateur hour. Worse, it's science fiction amateur hour. I am not trying to deride the participants who may enjoy the process or the readers who may enjoy the results...
Well, you succeeded anyway, so congrats. What's your problem? You've got better things to go read and write - good. Go read and write them.
posted by rtha at 6:47 PM on January 7, 2008
Well, you succeeded anyway, so congrats. What's your problem?
I'm not the one taking offense. So, none. Please don't mistake criticism of the concept as criticism of its participants, and go smoke a bowl or something.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 7:00 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm not the one taking offense. So, none. Please don't mistake criticism of the concept as criticism of its participants, and go smoke a bowl or something.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 7:00 PM on January 7, 2008
Yeah, ten pounds of whatever's comment was kind of weird.
I'm going to try to participate in this (many of you know how great I am at participating in things), but I'm also curious about the possibility of starting a MeFi poetry anthology. I know that there are a number of poets on MetaFilter, but I've never seen anyone's work.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:00 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm going to try to participate in this (many of you know how great I am at participating in things), but I'm also curious about the possibility of starting a MeFi poetry anthology. I know that there are a number of poets on MetaFilter, but I've never seen anyone's work.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:00 PM on January 7, 2008
Anyone's work will do
Poetry is a cheap imitation
Of the infinite, after all
But digging through the soiled
Rusty
Tin-plated garage-sale Gods
Is a little bit of dollar-bin Heaven
For this classics heathen
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:27 PM on January 7, 2008
Poetry is a cheap imitation
Of the infinite, after all
But digging through the soiled
Rusty
Tin-plated garage-sale Gods
Is a little bit of dollar-bin Heaven
For this classics heathen
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:27 PM on January 7, 2008
I don't get the complaints about how this topic is too narrow/too sci-fi/not inclusive enough.
I don't either, but I'm starting to like that the very concept itself doesn't even register for some, and for others, they have a bad impression/conception/perception of it and are kind of crashing it.
That's pretty dern cool, given the project parameters.
I'm also curious about the possibility of starting a MeFi poetry anthology. I know that there are a number of poets on MetaFilter, but I've never seen anyone's work.
I'd love to be involved with this too. And especially if it's sci-fi poetry.
posted by cashman at 7:31 PM on January 7, 2008
I don't either, but I'm starting to like that the very concept itself doesn't even register for some, and for others, they have a bad impression/conception/perception of it and are kind of crashing it.
That's pretty dern cool, given the project parameters.
I'm also curious about the possibility of starting a MeFi poetry anthology. I know that there are a number of poets on MetaFilter, but I've never seen anyone's work.
I'd love to be involved with this too. And especially if it's sci-fi poetry.
posted by cashman at 7:31 PM on January 7, 2008
i will be participating. Looking forward to it. I like the setting.
posted by empath at 7:47 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by empath at 7:47 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm a professional writer, and I have a couple things to say about "amateur hour."
First, God save me from ever feeling like I have to make money from every damn thing I write. I can't think of anything more paralyzing to the creative process.
Secondly, if I didn't have a sense of pleasure and play in my writing, if I weren't willing to write, alone or with other people, for the sheer joy of making words do interesting things, I never would have made it in this profession.
I've got better markets, too, if you're going to go so wide of the point to consider this a "market." I'm sure my editors would be thrilled if I were working on a story for them instead of writing up my odd little premise and hoping a few folks will head to the playground with me. But I like these people, as consternating and infuriating as they can be sometimes, and I'm thrilled to be writing alongside them. I can't wait to see the personal vision and high weirdness they come up with.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 7:48 PM on January 7, 2008 [3 favorites]
First, God save me from ever feeling like I have to make money from every damn thing I write. I can't think of anything more paralyzing to the creative process.
Secondly, if I didn't have a sense of pleasure and play in my writing, if I weren't willing to write, alone or with other people, for the sheer joy of making words do interesting things, I never would have made it in this profession.
I've got better markets, too, if you're going to go so wide of the point to consider this a "market." I'm sure my editors would be thrilled if I were working on a story for them instead of writing up my odd little premise and hoping a few folks will head to the playground with me. But I like these people, as consternating and infuriating as they can be sometimes, and I'm thrilled to be writing alongside them. I can't wait to see the personal vision and high weirdness they come up with.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 7:48 PM on January 7, 2008 [3 favorites]
Free to good home: One premise, unused, mint in box. Consensual entertainment in the form of P/V. As in, "Gee, I wonder what's on P/V tonight." Could groups of sensitives then be hired to "broadcast" P/Vertisements? (And yes, I realize the P/Vert joke's been done to death.) What would fast food or coke vs. pepsi wars look like in the P/Verse? "Drink Pepsi" → "Drink Pepsi and DIE" → "Drink Pepsi and Diet Pepsi, for a refreshing taste..."
I'm most interested to see the writing of those who have expressed distaste/lack of interest in the premise. Subvert the dominant paradigm! Personally, I look forward to the challenge. I hope a few of you naysayers give it a shot.
posted by Eideteker at 8:07 PM on January 7, 2008
I'm most interested to see the writing of those who have expressed distaste/lack of interest in the premise. Subvert the dominant paradigm! Personally, I look forward to the challenge. I hope a few of you naysayers give it a shot.
posted by Eideteker at 8:07 PM on January 7, 2008
I've never had an interest in science fiction or alternate worlds. So when I first read the premise my instinct was to subvert it. Write from the perspective of an outsider, this grumpy old bastard who can't appreciate the kiddies' new gadget that allows everyone shared fantasy worlds but who has a job where he has to somehow clean up after all these people. Have him bitch about all the idiots oohing and aahing while staring at the sky. I also thought of this as similar to television, a representation of life that everyone zones out on, where the dominant visions appeal to the lowest common denominator and are controlled by a few powerful people. Then I read the wiki. In its very specific detailing of the premise it shut out any appeal for me. The kind of social implications that might have interested me can't happen, because although a machine is necessary to make these alternate realities happen, they can be only be appreciated by a very small percentage of the population. By special people. The sensitives, whose fun is destroyed whenever a normie comes near. It's IMustHaveAspergersLand. I'd fear that playing with the premise at all would be like inviting an argument with a dungeons and dragons geek over whether or not goblins are allowed to fly and spit fire.
posted by TimTypeZed at 11:45 PM on January 7, 2008
posted by TimTypeZed at 11:45 PM on January 7, 2008
Is there any chance people who finish early could post their stuff on the wiki (or elsewhere)? My creative juices could do with a kickstart. Even a little vignette or something, just to make the world more real, rather than a stark collection of facts.
Also, I sympathize with TimTypeZed's point that a strict dividing line between The Special Ones and The Unimaginitive Masses makes the concept much less interesting to me, but maybe I'll try to see that as a challenge to fuck with and see if I can't blur the lines some.
posted by MetaMonkey at 1:13 AM on January 8, 2008
Also, I sympathize with TimTypeZed's point that a strict dividing line between The Special Ones and The Unimaginitive Masses makes the concept much less interesting to me, but maybe I'll try to see that as a challenge to fuck with and see if I can't blur the lines some.
posted by MetaMonkey at 1:13 AM on January 8, 2008
Actually, on re-reading the relevant wiki pages, there does seem to be a fair amount of wiggle room. The more I think about it, it is a rather fun idea, so thanks for those who spent the time fleshing it out. Hope I can contribute something.
posted by MetaMonkey at 1:43 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by MetaMonkey at 1:43 AM on January 8, 2008
I had toyed with the idea of some Big Pharma testing a drug (c0nr011 ur 0wn r3a1ity with P-Pi11!!! spams all a'flow'n) that would allow the insensitives access to the P/virse on a limited basis, with sexy results, but have since opted for the grumpy old man approach TimType mentions above.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:13 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:13 AM on January 8, 2008
hey, I had a thought late last night/early this morning. A series of questions occurred to me for some of which I believe I know the answers, for others of which I'm happy there are no concrete answers, and for the rest of which I'm kinda concerned/perplexed by the answers.
1. If, within a P/Verse, I move a pencil which exists in ontological reality using my mind/will/whatever, does that pencil move within ontological reality?
I would imagine that it does.
2. If the P/Verse is collapsed, either by turning off the P/Virt Machine or by being directly observed by a P/On, does the pencil remain where I left it while in the P/Verse or does it go back where it had been before I fucked with it?
I would imagine that it's still where I moved it to while within the P/Verse.
3. Can we safely say, then, that what happens within the P/Verse does not necessarily remain within the P/Verse?
That seems reasonable to me, especially given the explanation for the creation of P/balls.
4. So what effects, created by P/Virts within a P/Verse, would NOT remain once one returned to ontological reality?
I would like to think that that's up to individual authors for the most part and that getting all that technical about stuff like that at this stage would be detrimenal to the project in general.
5. Do I understand correctly that when people enter the P/Verse they leave their ontological bodies in some sense? They are, in a way, having an out of body experience?
As I understand it this is correct.
6. So when they enter the P/Verse, they enter it and can see their almost comatose bodies just chillin' there among the rest of the scenery?
... yes?
7. Now, if those bodies were to somehow leave the P/Verse, say if someone moved it or if the P/Verse machine itself were moved farther away from the body somehow, then that person would be thrown (smeared, yeah?) back into their body?
I think so.
8. So, unless P/Virt machines with comparatively large autocausality fields are rather common, I'd imagine this is kind of a common problem, the imposition of comatose bodies on the P/Verse, right?
...
9. Maybe people sort of disguise their bodies while they're in the P/Verse? Make them look like something else?
maybe...
10. Except the wiki says that disguising one's self to that degree takes a high sensitivity to the autocausality field, right?
it does.
11. So most people actually CAN'T do something like that.
I suppose not.
12. Moving on, presumably people can't just eat something in the P/Verse and thereby provide their bodies with any sustenance, right?
not sure. it seems to me like no, they couldn't, but then they DO alter reality with their thoughts so...
13. Well, if they can't, sustained periods in the P/Verse would be problematic I'd imagine. Can they feed their bodies? Like with a bib and a spoon or something? Or maybe an iv drip like in the hospital?
I should think so.
14. Well, what if they manifest an iv drip in the P/Verse and hook it up to their comatose body's arm? That should work so long as the P/Verse is up, right?
Makes sense to me.
15. And if it collapses, do all those nutrients put into their body just disappear?
This would be one of those moments where it's best not to outline something that specific. But I think it's safe to say that what they're feeding their body DOES exist so long as that P/Verse is up. It's not an illusion. So if they're doing it for weeks, then their body IS in fact being sustained. There may be a problem once it collapses for whatever reason where they'll need to immediately eat and drink or they'll be in trouble, but their body should still function because it has been successfully maintained the entire time. But really, that should be up to individual writers. This shouldn't be a restriction on anyone's story.
16. I guess what I'm getting at is, can we get rid of the whole disembodied consciousness idea?
Shut up, you.
17. What about just taking some of the more technical details (such as how difficult it is to make one's own body blend in with the scenery of someone else's P/Verse in order to "snoop.") out of the wiki so that we're not constraining people overly much?
...
So you see where I'm at. I'm not claiming that my answers to these questions are the right ones, I'm just trying to outline my thought process right now. What's funny is most of these questions will probably be irrelevant to the story I'm thinking of right now, but still I'm wondering a little about some of the details in the wiki. Any thoughts from people with more official standing in this project?
posted by shmegegge at 9:13 AM on January 8, 2008
1. If, within a P/Verse, I move a pencil which exists in ontological reality using my mind/will/whatever, does that pencil move within ontological reality?
I would imagine that it does.
2. If the P/Verse is collapsed, either by turning off the P/Virt Machine or by being directly observed by a P/On, does the pencil remain where I left it while in the P/Verse or does it go back where it had been before I fucked with it?
I would imagine that it's still where I moved it to while within the P/Verse.
3. Can we safely say, then, that what happens within the P/Verse does not necessarily remain within the P/Verse?
That seems reasonable to me, especially given the explanation for the creation of P/balls.
4. So what effects, created by P/Virts within a P/Verse, would NOT remain once one returned to ontological reality?
I would like to think that that's up to individual authors for the most part and that getting all that technical about stuff like that at this stage would be detrimenal to the project in general.
5. Do I understand correctly that when people enter the P/Verse they leave their ontological bodies in some sense? They are, in a way, having an out of body experience?
As I understand it this is correct.
6. So when they enter the P/Verse, they enter it and can see their almost comatose bodies just chillin' there among the rest of the scenery?
... yes?
7. Now, if those bodies were to somehow leave the P/Verse, say if someone moved it or if the P/Verse machine itself were moved farther away from the body somehow, then that person would be thrown (smeared, yeah?) back into their body?
I think so.
8. So, unless P/Virt machines with comparatively large autocausality fields are rather common, I'd imagine this is kind of a common problem, the imposition of comatose bodies on the P/Verse, right?
...
9. Maybe people sort of disguise their bodies while they're in the P/Verse? Make them look like something else?
maybe...
10. Except the wiki says that disguising one's self to that degree takes a high sensitivity to the autocausality field, right?
it does.
11. So most people actually CAN'T do something like that.
I suppose not.
12. Moving on, presumably people can't just eat something in the P/Verse and thereby provide their bodies with any sustenance, right?
not sure. it seems to me like no, they couldn't, but then they DO alter reality with their thoughts so...
13. Well, if they can't, sustained periods in the P/Verse would be problematic I'd imagine. Can they feed their bodies? Like with a bib and a spoon or something? Or maybe an iv drip like in the hospital?
I should think so.
14. Well, what if they manifest an iv drip in the P/Verse and hook it up to their comatose body's arm? That should work so long as the P/Verse is up, right?
Makes sense to me.
15. And if it collapses, do all those nutrients put into their body just disappear?
This would be one of those moments where it's best not to outline something that specific. But I think it's safe to say that what they're feeding their body DOES exist so long as that P/Verse is up. It's not an illusion. So if they're doing it for weeks, then their body IS in fact being sustained. There may be a problem once it collapses for whatever reason where they'll need to immediately eat and drink or they'll be in trouble, but their body should still function because it has been successfully maintained the entire time. But really, that should be up to individual writers. This shouldn't be a restriction on anyone's story.
16. I guess what I'm getting at is, can we get rid of the whole disembodied consciousness idea?
Shut up, you.
17. What about just taking some of the more technical details (such as how difficult it is to make one's own body blend in with the scenery of someone else's P/Verse in order to "snoop.") out of the wiki so that we're not constraining people overly much?
...
So you see where I'm at. I'm not claiming that my answers to these questions are the right ones, I'm just trying to outline my thought process right now. What's funny is most of these questions will probably be irrelevant to the story I'm thinking of right now, but still I'm wondering a little about some of the details in the wiki. Any thoughts from people with more official standing in this project?
posted by shmegegge at 9:13 AM on January 8, 2008
so then I went and gave a perfect example of what timtypezed was talking about. I'm gonna be over here arguing about dungeons and dragons and telling people that I don't know why they're mad at me because they must be total assholes.
posted by shmegegge at 9:16 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by shmegegge at 9:16 AM on January 8, 2008
Shut up, you.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:28 AM on January 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:28 AM on January 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
From what I understand, the standard right now is "make up your own answers." Correct me if I'm wrong, robocop.
If there are people who are excited about the world after the anthology project is over, I'd be happy to open up the Wiki can we can do some obsessive geeky worldbuilding, but for now we're just all working from the same general premise.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 9:29 AM on January 8, 2008
If there are people who are excited about the world after the anthology project is over, I'd be happy to open up the Wiki can we can do some obsessive geeky worldbuilding, but for now we're just all working from the same general premise.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 9:29 AM on January 8, 2008
There have been a lot of particulars invented for this p/virse, but you don't really have to use all or any of them. You can keep this pretty loose, as long as you tie in this multiperson dream machine. Think of the fairly loose framework Asimov had when he started writing his robot stories. He had three rules of behavior, and a couple of names. That is all that is needed here. Your story need not be "hard" SF, and probably shouldn't be, considering that the more technical hand-waving you include the more likely you are to create conflicts with other writers' version of this reality.
Also, this is a lousy market for hard SF. Zing!
posted by Mister_A at 9:37 AM on January 8, 2008
Also, this is a lousy market for hard SF. Zing!
posted by Mister_A at 9:37 AM on January 8, 2008
Also, if there are conflicts, but both stories are cool, then let there be conflicts.
posted by Mister_A at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 9:39 AM on January 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your story need not be "hard" SF, and probably shouldn't be, considering that the more technical hand-waving you include the more likely you are to create conflicts with other writers' version of this reality.
Well, that's sort of what concerns me is that I think the wiki may, in fact, be encouraging a little too much of the technical hand-waving, but yeah I'm fine with just writing what I want. thanks, all.
posted by shmegegge at 9:41 AM on January 8, 2008
Well, that's sort of what concerns me is that I think the wiki may, in fact, be encouraging a little too much of the technical hand-waving, but yeah I'm fine with just writing what I want. thanks, all.
posted by shmegegge at 9:41 AM on January 8, 2008
Keep in mind that roll truck roll has threatened to invalidate everything you write by making it nothing more than a viral marketing campaign. So, like - how consistent would marketing hacks BE, anyway? Just have fun with it. It's a setting, nothing more. Like New York, or 1888, or Satan's favorite nail salon.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:50 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:50 AM on January 8, 2008
Well, New York is also nothing more than a viral marketing campaign.
posted by shmegegge at 9:59 AM on January 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by shmegegge at 9:59 AM on January 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
P/Virt? Please. The theme needs to be "brisk interstitial cupcakes."
posted by ORthey at 10:39 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by ORthey at 10:39 AM on January 8, 2008
I would be infinitely more interested in that. Literally infinitely, since my interest in writing a science fiction story set in someone else's world is zero.
That wiki is starting to read like a guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any actual fans.
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ORthey at 10:41 AM on January 8, 2008
That wiki is starting to read like a guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any actual fans.
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by ORthey at 10:41 AM on January 8, 2008
The truth can be painful, ORthey, but that doesn't make it any less the truth.
posted by dersins at 10:43 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by dersins at 10:43 AM on January 8, 2008
I once dated a girl named Brisk Interstitial Cupcakes. She was sweet and centered, but cold.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:49 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:49 AM on January 8, 2008
It's not about the damn truth. This isn't my cup of tea at all either, but know what? Don't be a fucking prick about it. This sounds like an awesome challenge even though the setting is not uber-inspirational to me. Make of it what you will, twist the theme, use only a part of it. I'm excited.
You say you like the idea and approve of it, but I don't see too much evidence of that.
posted by ORthey at 10:50 AM on January 8, 2008
You say you like the idea and approve of it, but I don't see too much evidence of that.
posted by ORthey at 10:50 AM on January 8, 2008
Well that may be your truth, dersins, but that doesn't make it the truth. Which, coincidentally, is pretty much the entire basis of P/Virt.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:52 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:52 AM on January 8, 2008
Don't be a fucking prick about it.
Says the guy who called me an asshole? Can you how me where I've attacked someone regarding this idea? No? Then who, precisely, is acting prickish here?
posted by dersins at 10:55 AM on January 8, 2008
Says the guy who called me an asshole? Can you how me where I've attacked someone regarding this idea? No? Then who, precisely, is acting prickish here?
posted by dersins at 10:55 AM on January 8, 2008
dersins, but that doesn't make it the truth.
Bullshit. In my p/verted world dersin's truth is THE truth. Kneel or face his cats.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:56 AM on January 8, 2008
Bullshit. In my p/verted world dersin's truth is THE truth. Kneel or face his cats.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:56 AM on January 8, 2008
Kneel or face his cats.
Seriously. They'll eat your face right off the front of your head, man.
posted by dersins at 10:57 AM on January 8, 2008
Seriously. They'll eat your face right off the front of your head, man.
posted by dersins at 10:57 AM on January 8, 2008
dersin's cats don't scare me. I'm a P/On. I don't have the imagination to be scared by fictional cats.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:59 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:59 AM on January 8, 2008
Let's keep the negative hoodoo out of the thread, please?
And Mister_A has it: Also, if there are conflicts, but both stories are cool, then let there be conflicts.
One thing I like about this is how each author's interpretation of the setting can be different than another's, much akin to how our characters perception of the setting we create for them can be different than others'.
I'm approaching my story from a magical realism stance. To me, the P/Machine is a great way to have kooky stuff happen without needing to spend a lot of time explaining the kook, which makes it pretty well suited for a short story.
Someone else can take it from a hard science point of view and I'll still high-five'm at a meetup before we settle down and Drink As Writers Do, our bloodshot eyes tracing the smoketrails as they wind around the bar. One of us will try and point out that smoking is illegal in bars now, but too much bourbon has taken the other past the point of caring. We'll sing songs we don't know very well and sob. Then we will arm wrestle strangers and proclaim bonds of brotherhood with the jukebox.
So I have high hopes for this project, see.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:33 AM on January 8, 2008
And Mister_A has it: Also, if there are conflicts, but both stories are cool, then let there be conflicts.
One thing I like about this is how each author's interpretation of the setting can be different than another's, much akin to how our characters perception of the setting we create for them can be different than others'.
I'm approaching my story from a magical realism stance. To me, the P/Machine is a great way to have kooky stuff happen without needing to spend a lot of time explaining the kook, which makes it pretty well suited for a short story.
Someone else can take it from a hard science point of view and I'll still high-five'm at a meetup before we settle down and Drink As Writers Do, our bloodshot eyes tracing the smoketrails as they wind around the bar. One of us will try and point out that smoking is illegal in bars now, but too much bourbon has taken the other past the point of caring. We'll sing songs we don't know very well and sob. Then we will arm wrestle strangers and proclaim bonds of brotherhood with the jukebox.
So I have high hopes for this project, see.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:33 AM on January 8, 2008
Speaking of cats, I have OS 10.4.11, aka Tiger. I have a tiger photo from Nat'l Geographic as my screensaver. My son sleeps with a stuffed white tiger.
They call me "horse".
posted by Mister_A at 11:34 AM on January 8, 2008
They call me "horse".
posted by Mister_A at 11:34 AM on January 8, 2008
That your OS, screensaver, and son's stuffed tiger call you anything at all is a pretty good sign that you need to speak to a physician.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:38 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:38 AM on January 8, 2008
Try the veal!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:46 AM on January 8, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:46 AM on January 8, 2008
The fist line of my story is "The thing had way too many fucking tentacles."
It's going well so far.
posted by flashboy at 11:53 AM on January 8, 2008
It's going well so far.
posted by flashboy at 11:53 AM on January 8, 2008
The first line of my story is:
"Pervert!"
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:03 PM on January 8, 2008
"Pervert!"
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:03 PM on January 8, 2008
I didn't say you attacked someone, dersins. To me, telling folks who put a lot of work and energy into setting up a project that their project has no fans is prickish. That's just me.
Ok, enough negative hoodoo. Robocop, I apologize.
posted by ORthey at 12:07 PM on January 8, 2008
Ok, enough negative hoodoo. Robocop, I apologize.
posted by ORthey at 12:07 PM on January 8, 2008
I don't know if I'll write anything but for those that do, I hope they take it seriously and don't treat it circle jerk. It would be neat to see what people can write.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:08 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:08 PM on January 8, 2008
Some of us take circle jerk seriously, Brandon.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:09 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:09 PM on January 8, 2008
But, yes - I intend to bring the quality ****-cannon.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:11 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:11 PM on January 8, 2008
The first line of my story is:
It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents, except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
dersins. To me, telling folks who put a lot of work and energy into setting up a project that their project has no fans is prickish.
Is that how you read my comment, ORthey? It's not how I meant it. Let me break my intent down for you:
The wiki is so precisely detailed in the fictional world it describes that it reads like a guide to writing fan fiction.
The fictional world that it describes, however, has not yet had any books, movies, TV shows, comics, etc. set in it, and thus does not have an established fan base.
Therefore, the wiki reads like a "guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any fans."
And your response to this was to call me an asshole and a prick? Are you really that sensitive a soul? My goodness. The internet must be a scary place for you.
posted by dersins at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2008
Is that how you read my comment, ORthey? It's not how I meant it. Let me break my intent down for you:
The wiki is so precisely detailed in the fictional world it describes that it reads like a guide to writing fan fiction.
The fictional world that it describes, however, has not yet had any books, movies, TV shows, comics, etc. set in it, and thus does not have an established fan base.
Therefore, the wiki reads like a "guide to writing fan fiction about something that doesn't have any fans."
And your response to this was to call me an asshole and a prick? Are you really that sensitive a soul? My goodness. The internet must be a scary place for you.
posted by dersins at 12:24 PM on January 8, 2008
Wait, out of body what now? Seriously? I thought the whole thing about not being able to change someone else's body in the P/Verse was because they had some kind of field around their bodies/themselves. But now their bodies and themselves have become two separate entities?
Srsly, when you enter the P/Verse, you should be there body AND soul. Your body occupies both realms until the superposition collapses. Or is this a contrivance to resolve the whole "falling off a (now-imaginary) ladder" problem? Cause I'd rather have the ladder problem than the abandoned bodies problem. Makes for interesting "melting ice knife/bullet" murders in the P/Verse. And I was so looking forward to bringing back from "forced retirement" that detective who'd come out as a sensitive and subsequently let go from the force. Or not. I really haven't decided because the world is not gelling for me.
Whatever; I think I'm going to wait til I see someone else's take on the P/Verse before I get too tied to any premise. Once again, I realize this is antithetical to the nature of the project, but I'm a nerd, and I've got (starting next week) a paying writing gig to focus on. I want to participate, but I've got to pander to my inner perfectionist for now. Later comes the feverish all-nighters spent drunk on fermented Mountain Dew.
The first line of my story is the last I will write.
posted by Eideteker at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2008
Srsly, when you enter the P/Verse, you should be there body AND soul. Your body occupies both realms until the superposition collapses. Or is this a contrivance to resolve the whole "falling off a (now-imaginary) ladder" problem? Cause I'd rather have the ladder problem than the abandoned bodies problem. Makes for interesting "melting ice knife/bullet" murders in the P/Verse. And I was so looking forward to bringing back from "forced retirement" that detective who'd come out as a sensitive and subsequently let go from the force. Or not. I really haven't decided because the world is not gelling for me.
Whatever; I think I'm going to wait til I see someone else's take on the P/Verse before I get too tied to any premise. Once again, I realize this is antithetical to the nature of the project, but I'm a nerd, and I've got (starting next week) a paying writing gig to focus on. I want to participate, but I've got to pander to my inner perfectionist for now. Later comes the feverish all-nighters spent drunk on fermented Mountain Dew.
The first line of my story is the last I will write.
posted by Eideteker at 4:09 PM on January 8, 2008
Dersins, I see where you are coming from, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sure, it's a guide to writing fan fiction for a setting that has no fans. But it's also a show bible (and I just know you know what one of those is) for a show that hasn't been made and is devoid of a showrunner. It's a McGuffin, plain and simple, and an invitation to play.
So play, or do not play. There is no snark.
Smeggage: I shall be boring and attempt to answer your questions with my awesome hat of no editorial authority.
1. If, within a P/Verse, I move a pencil which exists in ontological reality using my mind/will/whatever, does that pencil move within ontological reality?
I would imagine that it does.
No. If you like, a copy of the area within the field is taken, and influenced, but reality as commonly perceived remains the same. "shunted to a splinter reality called Philosophical/Virtual Reality." is the operative description - separate but equal prior to influence.
2. If the P/Verse is collapsed, either by turning off the P/Virt Machine or by being directly observed by a P/On, does the pencil remain where I left it while in the P/Verse or does it go back where it had been before I fucked with it?
I would imagine that it's still where I moved it to while within the P/Verse.
reality remains the same as the area within the field has been "shunted" elsewhere.
3. Can we safely say, then, that what happens within the P/Verse does not necessarily remain within the P/Verse?
That seems reasonable to me, especially given the explanation for the creation of P/balls.
It has certainly happened to those who have experienced it, but reality remains the same
"The details are not clear or consistent, but it would appear that emotional openness and physical vulnerability are directly linked in the P/Virse"
So a pencil turned into a velociraptor can still eat your face, but not your neighbours.
4. So what effects, created by P/Virts within a P/Verse, would NOT remain once one returned to ontological reality?
I would like to think that that's up to individual authors for the most part and that getting all that technical about stuff like that at this stage would be detrimenal to the project in general.
Generally, I'd say effects to the body and mind happen in real time. There is so a 'picture of Dorian Gray' story in that.
5. Do I understand correctly that when people enter the P/Verse they leave their ontological bodies in some sense? They are, in a way, having an out of body experience?
As I understand it this is correct.
6. So when they enter the P/Verse, they enter it and can see their almost comatose bodies just chillin' there among the rest of the scenery?
... yes?
conjecture here, but I'd say no. They are seeing a shunted version so presumably the rag doll they left behind is represented to themselves by themselves in the p/virse.
7. Now, if those bodies were to somehow leave the P/Verse, say if someone moved it or if the P/Verse machine itself were moved farther away from the body somehow, then that person would be thrown (smeared, yeah?) back into their body?
I think so.
Good question, worth exploring. My own guess would be that, removed outside the field, they would no longer be sensitive to it and would 'wake up'
8. So, unless P/Virt machines with comparatively large autocausality fields are rather common, I'd imagine this is kind of a common problem, the imposition of comatose bodies on the P/Verse, right?
...
this is one reason why p/verts are secretive about their activities. I don't see them as having an OOB experience *to themselves*, and it gets much more silly and problematic technically to assume they do.
9. Maybe people sort of disguise their bodies while they're in the P/Verse? Make them look like something else?
maybe...
again, ripe story fodder. So what are LiveDolls really?
10. Except the wiki says that disguising one's self to that degree takes a high sensitivity to the autocausality field, right?
it does.
I think it's more saying that people can create avatars that are seen by other sensitives without the need for a full blown machine induced field.
11. So most people actually CAN'T do something like that.
I suppose not.
Nope - sensitivity is rare. I commented in the Wiki but haven't found it in the final version, but my estimate was about 1-2%, the same as people with red hair.
12. Moving on, presumably people can't just eat something in the P/Verse and thereby provide their bodies with any sustenance, right?
not sure. it seems to me like no, they couldn't, but then they DO alter reality with their thoughts so...
The existence of long term fields and practitioners suggests they can. Could there be repercussions?....Possibly, but it's one less detail to worry about if sustenance can be acquired in philo.
Lore can administer brutal correction if I have misinterpreted his final version, but one of the points raised in the wiki discussion was that if you start going all quantum in terms of effects on the real world, it becomes horribly confusing to keep consistent - simpler to say there is a divorce between the p/virse and the real, except to the individual that has experienced it.
posted by Sparx at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2008
Sure, it's a guide to writing fan fiction for a setting that has no fans. But it's also a show bible (and I just know you know what one of those is) for a show that hasn't been made and is devoid of a showrunner. It's a McGuffin, plain and simple, and an invitation to play.
So play, or do not play. There is no snark.
Smeggage: I shall be boring and attempt to answer your questions with my awesome hat of no editorial authority.
1. If, within a P/Verse, I move a pencil which exists in ontological reality using my mind/will/whatever, does that pencil move within ontological reality?
I would imagine that it does.
No. If you like, a copy of the area within the field is taken, and influenced, but reality as commonly perceived remains the same. "shunted to a splinter reality called Philosophical/Virtual Reality." is the operative description - separate but equal prior to influence.
2. If the P/Verse is collapsed, either by turning off the P/Virt Machine or by being directly observed by a P/On, does the pencil remain where I left it while in the P/Verse or does it go back where it had been before I fucked with it?
I would imagine that it's still where I moved it to while within the P/Verse.
reality remains the same as the area within the field has been "shunted" elsewhere.
3. Can we safely say, then, that what happens within the P/Verse does not necessarily remain within the P/Verse?
That seems reasonable to me, especially given the explanation for the creation of P/balls.
It has certainly happened to those who have experienced it, but reality remains the same
"The details are not clear or consistent, but it would appear that emotional openness and physical vulnerability are directly linked in the P/Virse"
So a pencil turned into a velociraptor can still eat your face, but not your neighbours.
4. So what effects, created by P/Virts within a P/Verse, would NOT remain once one returned to ontological reality?
I would like to think that that's up to individual authors for the most part and that getting all that technical about stuff like that at this stage would be detrimenal to the project in general.
Generally, I'd say effects to the body and mind happen in real time. There is so a 'picture of Dorian Gray' story in that.
5. Do I understand correctly that when people enter the P/Verse they leave their ontological bodies in some sense? They are, in a way, having an out of body experience?
As I understand it this is correct.
6. So when they enter the P/Verse, they enter it and can see their almost comatose bodies just chillin' there among the rest of the scenery?
... yes?
conjecture here, but I'd say no. They are seeing a shunted version so presumably the rag doll they left behind is represented to themselves by themselves in the p/virse.
7. Now, if those bodies were to somehow leave the P/Verse, say if someone moved it or if the P/Verse machine itself were moved farther away from the body somehow, then that person would be thrown (smeared, yeah?) back into their body?
I think so.
Good question, worth exploring. My own guess would be that, removed outside the field, they would no longer be sensitive to it and would 'wake up'
8. So, unless P/Virt machines with comparatively large autocausality fields are rather common, I'd imagine this is kind of a common problem, the imposition of comatose bodies on the P/Verse, right?
...
this is one reason why p/verts are secretive about their activities. I don't see them as having an OOB experience *to themselves*, and it gets much more silly and problematic technically to assume they do.
9. Maybe people sort of disguise their bodies while they're in the P/Verse? Make them look like something else?
maybe...
again, ripe story fodder. So what are LiveDolls really?
10. Except the wiki says that disguising one's self to that degree takes a high sensitivity to the autocausality field, right?
it does.
I think it's more saying that people can create avatars that are seen by other sensitives without the need for a full blown machine induced field.
11. So most people actually CAN'T do something like that.
I suppose not.
Nope - sensitivity is rare. I commented in the Wiki but haven't found it in the final version, but my estimate was about 1-2%, the same as people with red hair.
12. Moving on, presumably people can't just eat something in the P/Verse and thereby provide their bodies with any sustenance, right?
not sure. it seems to me like no, they couldn't, but then they DO alter reality with their thoughts so...
The existence of long term fields and practitioners suggests they can. Could there be repercussions?....Possibly, but it's one less detail to worry about if sustenance can be acquired in philo.
Lore can administer brutal correction if I have misinterpreted his final version, but one of the points raised in the wiki discussion was that if you start going all quantum in terms of effects on the real world, it becomes horribly confusing to keep consistent - simpler to say there is a divorce between the p/virse and the real, except to the individual that has experienced it.
posted by Sparx at 4:34 PM on January 8, 2008
nerve damage is the only physical change that translates from the P/Virse to normative reality.
Just found this bit in the final wiki cut. Apparently a pencil/velociraptor can't eat your face, but it can remove your need for botox.
Regardless, this is still about as constricting as a syllable count for a sonnet. Good luck to all.
posted by Sparx at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2008
Just found this bit in the final wiki cut. Apparently a pencil/velociraptor can't eat your face, but it can remove your need for botox.
Regardless, this is still about as constricting as a syllable count for a sonnet. Good luck to all.
posted by Sparx at 4:43 PM on January 8, 2008
"It's a McGuffin, plain and simple"
I think calling the P/virse a plain and simple MacGuffin is sort of missing an important nuance of MacGuffinism. P/virse is a pretty well thought out idea, and although it is possible to use that idea as a MacGuffin, it isn't a very good MacGuffin. The Maltese Falcon was a good MacGuffin - it drove the story because everyone wanted it but the particulars of it were more or less unimportant to their motivations. Only THAT they wanted it.
I think that for many of the characters in these stories (and yeah, yeah, feel free to beat me up with your counter-examples) the particulars of the mechanics of P/Virse will affect their motivations. It's not a sheaf of microfilm, or a glowing suitcase. The particulars of P/Virse ARE important to these people.
Again, one could write a story where the P/Virse stuff is the MacGuffin, but it is not by nature a MacGuffin.
Have I plate of beans'd this MacGuffin, or vice versa?
posted by dirtdirt at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2008
I think calling the P/virse a plain and simple MacGuffin is sort of missing an important nuance of MacGuffinism. P/virse is a pretty well thought out idea, and although it is possible to use that idea as a MacGuffin, it isn't a very good MacGuffin. The Maltese Falcon was a good MacGuffin - it drove the story because everyone wanted it but the particulars of it were more or less unimportant to their motivations. Only THAT they wanted it.
I think that for many of the characters in these stories (and yeah, yeah, feel free to beat me up with your counter-examples) the particulars of the mechanics of P/Virse will affect their motivations. It's not a sheaf of microfilm, or a glowing suitcase. The particulars of P/Virse ARE important to these people.
Again, one could write a story where the P/Virse stuff is the MacGuffin, but it is not by nature a MacGuffin.
Have I plate of beans'd this MacGuffin, or vice versa?
posted by dirtdirt at 5:35 PM on January 8, 2008
As the person to bring MacGuffinism into thread, I just want to say that I agree completely with that, dirtdirt. I like the P/Virt premise because I personally see a lot of room to move in stories where it plays a pretty direct role; my point above was that it doesn't have to be a direct role, that it could be a MacGuffin if you like, and so taking its complexity and walking away from the project because of that is kind of overselling the constraint it represents on writing.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:51 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:51 PM on January 8, 2008
If you wind up an epic story centered around everybody believing in a P/Virse that doesn't exist, that's a shaggy dog story, not a MacGuffin.
posted by ardgedee at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by ardgedee at 7:36 PM on January 8, 2008
My story stars McDuff the Crime Dog, so it's both a shaggy dog story AND a McDuffen.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:50 PM on January 8, 2008
My story stars McDuff the Crime Dog
Lay on, IRFH, but I think you're thinking of McGruff.
posted by dersins at 8:11 PM on January 8, 2008
Lay on, IRFH, but I think you're thinking of McGruff.
posted by dersins at 8:11 PM on January 8, 2008
My lawyer was pretty adamant that I go with McDuff.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:49 PM on January 8, 2008
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:49 PM on January 8, 2008
headspace said: I'd just like to drop a note and express interest in a future Mefi Anthology that simply has a theme (death, pancakes, plates of beans, whatever,) and no explicit genre or shared world.
Yeah, I'm absolutely in for what headspace said. Not so much a shared universe thingy or delineated genre. But a shared theme? I'm in.
posted by dejah420 at 9:51 PM on January 8, 2008
Yeah, I'm absolutely in for what headspace said. Not so much a shared universe thingy or delineated genre. But a shared theme? I'm in.
posted by dejah420 at 9:51 PM on January 8, 2008
is sort of missing an important nuance of MacGuffinism
Yeah, you're right. It's not really a MacGuffin at all. It's a single point of shared backstory.
It was late, there was wine, words were poorly chosen and now I have to face the consequences. I shall light a candle to St MacGuffin and watch North by Northwest again.
posted by Sparx at 12:30 AM on January 9, 2008
Yeah, you're right. It's not really a MacGuffin at all. It's a single point of shared backstory.
It was late, there was wine, words were poorly chosen and now I have to face the consequences. I shall light a candle to St MacGuffin and watch North by Northwest again.
posted by Sparx at 12:30 AM on January 9, 2008
Evidently McMuffinness is related to the muffin, but not exclusively.
Case in point, if you order a sausage McMuffin it's just sausage on a muffin. Sausage McMuffin with egg and they put they egg on it. But order an egg McMuffin and you do NOT get just egg on a muffin. They add cheese and ham, and they call that ham Canadian Bacon. If you are going to put misnamed meats in the McMuffin at least have the decency to establish some sort of reverse engineerable naming convention.
A sausage McMuffin with egg should come with cheese and ham. It's only fair. It's the RULES.
Canadian bacon, indeed.
posted by dirtdirt at 5:20 AM on January 9, 2008
Case in point, if you order a sausage McMuffin it's just sausage on a muffin. Sausage McMuffin with egg and they put they egg on it. But order an egg McMuffin and you do NOT get just egg on a muffin. They add cheese and ham, and they call that ham Canadian Bacon. If you are going to put misnamed meats in the McMuffin at least have the decency to establish some sort of reverse engineerable naming convention.
A sausage McMuffin with egg should come with cheese and ham. It's only fair. It's the RULES.
Canadian bacon, indeed.
posted by dirtdirt at 5:20 AM on January 9, 2008
You know what they call a Quarterpounder with Cheese in the P/Virse?
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:01 AM on January 9, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:01 AM on January 9, 2008
I managed to miss this and the previous thread, but this sounds pretty fun. I loved Thieves' World - the first collection or so. A while back I tried reading one of the later novels and was left Very Sad and Disappointed by it, but had my faith restored by rereading the first anthology, which was really damn good.
Anyhow - the first thread had some criteria for involvement, but this one we can just send something in, right?
posted by freebird at 8:47 AM on January 9, 2008
Anyhow - the first thread had some criteria for involvement, but this one we can just send something in, right?
posted by freebird at 8:47 AM on January 9, 2008
Right! Once it looks like you have a story in process, you can drop me a line to let me know you'll be submitting something.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:55 AM on January 9, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:55 AM on January 9, 2008
An Egg MacGuffin would be tofu with velveeta on a saltine.
posted by ardgedee at 5:07 PM on January 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ardgedee at 5:07 PM on January 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
So my story is done but for the CONSTANT AUTHORIAL FIDDLING.
How 'bout you?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:45 AM on January 25, 2008
How 'bout you?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:45 AM on January 25, 2008
I think mine is half done. Or maybe half baked, as it were. Are we allowed to submit more than one if we get some weird new idear?
posted by cashman at 8:14 AM on January 25, 2008
posted by cashman at 8:14 AM on January 25, 2008
Sure, the more the merrier!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:21 AM on January 25, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:21 AM on January 25, 2008
Grr... it's still not popping for me. I think LFS lost me when the consciousness left the body, instead of having the body interact with the P/Virse. All my story premises were based on immersion. Maybe I'll have some time this weekend to brainstorm, because I still really want to do this.
posted by Eideteker at 10:22 AM on January 25, 2008
posted by Eideteker at 10:22 AM on January 25, 2008
Oh, I'm probably nine tenths done. Which is to say, I haven't actually written anything yet but I've thought about plots and settings a lot during idle moments.
There should be a forum somewhere to bash on the mechanics of the p/verse scenario. If this was my ball and I was running with it, I'd fill in the gaps with whatever comes to mind. But it's a shared setting that somebody else started, so I'm getting hung up on details that might or might not be worth getting hung up on; without feedback, I can't tell.
posted by ardgedee at 7:43 AM on January 27, 2008
There should be a forum somewhere to bash on the mechanics of the p/verse scenario. If this was my ball and I was running with it, I'd fill in the gaps with whatever comes to mind. But it's a shared setting that somebody else started, so I'm getting hung up on details that might or might not be worth getting hung up on; without feedback, I can't tell.
posted by ardgedee at 7:43 AM on January 27, 2008
I'm banging away on mine, maybe halfway done in terms of just actual dumping prose, lots of editing to go. I hope to get to a really rough draft today, but we'll see. When is the deadline, next weekend?
I've also been wondering some things about the P/Virt stuf and the shared scenario, but honestly I think it's good we don't have a forum/wiki/whatever to work on that - it would just make too easy a distraction for me at least. I think where I'm going is pretty easy to fit to a lot of different versions of the P/Virt stuff anyhow.
It's a good exercise, and sort of opposite of NaNoWriMo. Random rambling wordcount is your enemy for most real writing, and NaNoWriMo has made me too willing to just chase after tangents and deadends if they help my word count for the day.
I think LFS lost me when the consciousness left the body, instead of having the body interact with the P/Virse. All my story premises were based on immersion.
Uh oh, that totally threw me in that it suggests a specificity and depth for the scenario I didn't know we had. Maybe I should be paying more attention to the 'conceit'....ah well, not today. I think I'll just finish what I've been imagining, then see if I can make it all fit.
posted by freebird at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2008
I've also been wondering some things about the P/Virt stuf and the shared scenario, but honestly I think it's good we don't have a forum/wiki/whatever to work on that - it would just make too easy a distraction for me at least. I think where I'm going is pretty easy to fit to a lot of different versions of the P/Virt stuff anyhow.
It's a good exercise, and sort of opposite of NaNoWriMo. Random rambling wordcount is your enemy for most real writing, and NaNoWriMo has made me too willing to just chase after tangents and deadends if they help my word count for the day.
I think LFS lost me when the consciousness left the body, instead of having the body interact with the P/Virse. All my story premises were based on immersion.
Uh oh, that totally threw me in that it suggests a specificity and depth for the scenario I didn't know we had. Maybe I should be paying more attention to the 'conceit'....ah well, not today. I think I'll just finish what I've been imagining, then see if I can make it all fit.
posted by freebird at 1:00 PM on January 27, 2008
I'm setting up a discussion forum. Watch this thread for more info.
posted by ardgedee at 6:11 PM on January 27, 2008
posted by ardgedee at 6:11 PM on January 27, 2008
Forum's set up, but still rough around the edges. Drop a line by Mefi mail for more info, but allow me to get some sleep before I reply.
posted by ardgedee at 8:19 PM on January 27, 2008
posted by ardgedee at 8:19 PM on January 27, 2008
Holy crap, I think I've got an idea for a story. Now I just pray I can pull it together. And I apologize to all the other authors in advance in case I end up destroying the P/Virse.
One question: Are the 'abandoned' physical bodies of sensitives who are mentally in the P/Virse considered P/Zombies?
posted by Eideteker at 6:21 AM on January 31, 2008
One question: Are the 'abandoned' physical bodies of sensitives who are mentally in the P/Virse considered P/Zombies?
posted by Eideteker at 6:21 AM on January 31, 2008
This thread's about to close up. I'll see if I can get mod permission to do a reminder thread as a Meetup thread (Short Story Meetup?) so it will last longer/allow for followup.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:41 AM on February 6, 2008
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:41 AM on February 6, 2008
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posted by amro at 5:56 AM on January 7, 2008